Estes Pro Patriot Clone Build

Hello everyone,

I've followed this forum for some time, gained a lot of knowledge, and would like to try to put up something interesting for my first post. Like many, I started building rockets at a young age and had to stop. After a long hiatus, I've returned to the hobby with the hopes of eventually moving up the high power ranks.

My first rocket was the standard engine patriot which I build when I was 10 I think. I still have it, and it's flown 30+ times during its heyday (none of the fins are original at this point). I've wanted to build the pro version ever since it was available, but never was able to get the money together mowing yards for the kit, 4 D-engines, the cluster launch equipment...

Fast forward to today and I wasn't about to pay the prices on Ebay for one of these things, so I did some research and tried to create an accurate example from available parts. I finally got the time together to give it a shot, and this thread shows the results for better or worse. For what it's worth, it's been a long slow process, and I was unaware of the Leviathan option when I started.

I have to cite my sources, so the nose cone, centering rings, motor tubes, airframe, and small parts are from BMS. The wood and other miscellaneous supplies are from the local hobby shop. Excelsior rocketry created the superb decals.

The guidance is from:
1. This forum
2. YORF: https://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=3734
3. JimZ: https://www.spacemodeling.org/jimz/est2066.htm
4. I found a post somewhere which gave me the body tube lengths

I live in a small apartment, so all the work has been done at the kitchen table and on the balcony (I have a very patient wife).

To start this is some thin basswood and my eventual fin template.

It took some time to get the fin sizes and skins correct. I used some poster board for this purpose. For those that have one of these models, I realize things may not be 100% accurate. You might notice the tab is longer than the stock fins - This was done to try to connect the fin to the motor tubes.

I notched the centering rings as per the stock kit, then reduced the diameter of the end centering ring by 0.25 inch to accommodate the subtle tail cone. The tail cone was the hardest part to scale accurately; I actually made it first and then used it to get the fin dimensions correct.

I couldn't opt out of the aluminum heat shield thing on the end of the rocket. Unfortunately, I did not have a milling machine. Luckily, softer aluminum alloys are amenable to woodworking tools. I used 1/32" aluminum sheet, a 1" spade drill, tin snips, small files, and time to make an approximation. I cut the slots in the body tube and then mocked everything up. Third photo shows all the sub assemblies. The last photo shows the conduits attached (I used 1/8 x 1/4" balsa, which is likely another inaccuracy) and the start of many layers of wood filler and primer.

For completion, this is my version of the Estes baffle/shock cord mount.

And here it is after all the hours of sanding primer with some color on it. I ended up laying down black first, but the red top coat ended up ok despite this.

Very nice work ama...

And here's the final result after decals and some clear coat. For recovery it has a 24" chute with a chute protector. I have yet to fly it; I'm a little nervous about it and want to convince myself it's completely stable.

You did a really nice job on this. I'm impressed with how much you did with hand tools. It obviously took skill, patience and attention to detail. Great work!

Welcome to the forum and congrats on an outstanding build thread. Your fin can fabrication is a slick bit 'a work ! :clap: I've had a soft spot for this model since coming back to the hobby in 2006. Someday...

Thank you for your replies!

Nice Job, Its one of my near term planned clone jobs, I already have the airframe, just waiting to order nose cones

ama said:

... want to convince myself it's completely stable.

...

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This entry on the Rocket Reviews site gives the center of pressure at 28.45 inches from the nose, calculated with the VCP program (an old VB Windows simulator I believe - https://v-serv.com/vcp/). The current go-to shareware design and flight sim tool is Open Rocket - openrocket.sourceforge.net .

https://www.rocketreviews.com/estes-8031.html

Very cool!!!:clap::clap::clap:
I love that you incorporated the tail cone and conduits which sadly are a lacking detail in most/all the available kits.

Nice work!

TopRamen said:

Very cool!!!:clap::clap::clap:
I love that you incorporated the tail cone and conduits which sadly are a lacking detail in most/all the available kits.

Nice work!

Click to expand...

Thank you! I really like the fiberglassed 24 mm patriot you made.

samb said:

This entry on the Rocket Reviews site gives the center of pressure at 28.45 inches from the nose, calculated with the VCP program (an old VB Windows simulator I believe - https://v-serv.com/vcp/). The current go-to shareware design and flight sim tool is Open Rocket - openrocket.sourceforge.net .
View attachment 265006
https://www.rocketreviews.com/estes-8031.html

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Thank you for the info samb. Yeah, I was worried that overall I made the fin can too heavy and skewed the weight balance.

I have been playing with open rocket, and have a model I've attached. It's different from the Estes kit in that the nose cone is 11" long (vs 9"). It quotes a CP is 31.5" from the front, which isn't too far off from what you found, accounting for the longer nose cone. Turns out that the actual measured center of gravity on mine (with 4x D12's) is 28" from the front, which is still ~1.1 calibers. I'm thinking once I get I break from night shifts I'll be sending it up, hopefully with some good photos.



Adam
View attachment pro_patriot_version_1.ork

I'd love to find centering rings and make a PSII version of this thing. I've always loved the patriot. And clue where someone could find the centering rings for the Estes PSII body tubes?

Kruegon said:

I'd love to find centering rings and make a PSII version of this thing. I've always loved the patriot. And clue where someone could find the centering rings for the Estes PSII body tubes?

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Balsa Machining Service the T300 tubing is the same as Estes PSII 3" tubing. He even sells the CRs complete with 4 holes for the quad cluster. BMS also has great service on top of all that.

Really? Thats news. Im hopeful that he'll start producing the PSII clone parts. I'd like to see the CRs available for all 4 tubes. Either that or I'll have to change it all over to LOC tubing.

Kruegon said:

Really? Thats news. Im hopeful that he'll start producing the PSII clone parts. I'd like to see the CRs available for all 4 tubes. Either that or I'll have to change it all over to LOC tubing.

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I bought the PNC300K nose cone from BMS to put on my Scion, so I could snag the regular nose cone for my Pro Series Patriot Clone (29mm MMT though), thinking about making a mold from the PSII NC for later, seeing its a pain to get the PSII 3" nc because it seems to be out of stock more than in stock plus Estes wants like $8.99 shipping on a $6.99 nose cone. Nobody else I have found carries the PSII 3" NC other than Estes, the PNC300K that BMS has is 2" longer on the exposed section, and the 3:1 Estes NC looks the best on many military style missles and sounding rockets.

Kruegon said:

Really? Thats news. Im hopeful that he'll start producing the PSII clone parts. I'd like to see the CRs available for all 4 tubes. Either that or I'll have to change it all over to LOC tubing.

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BMS isn't doing custom parts at the moment, however it would be cool if he did add versions of the PSII nose cones and transitions to his product line.

I've decided to start the base work on building my Pro Patriot Clone. I've searched high and low. I cannot locate anything about the dimensions of the rocket. I need to find the BT sizes and lengths and such. I believe I can replicate the rest from the images on JimZ's site. Can anyone help me here? Point me to the info I need? Just point me to the proper site and I'll be good.

Send K'Tesh a PM if he doesn't pop in soon, he probably has what you need, the proper nose cone is the one from the Estes PSII series Leviathan, Scion or a Big Daddy.

That's exactly what I was looking at. My goal here is to produce a set of them. A Pro Series Patriot and a Pro Series II Patriot. One built in the true clone style, one built to the same style and design of the PSII series rockets, 29mm and everything. What can I say. I'm an idiot lol.

It might actually be worthwhile to purchase the Scion and use it's parts as the basis of the build. BTs, CRs, MMT, retainer, nosecone. Pretty much Everything I need is already in that kit. Build the baffle and the tailcone and I'll have everything but the rails.

Kruegon said:

That's exactly what I was looking at. My goal here is to produce a set of them. A Pro Series Patriot and a Pro Series II Patriot. One built in the true clone style, one built to the same style and design of the PSII series rockets, 29mm and everything. What can I say. I'm an idiot lol.

It might actually be worthwhile to purchase the Scion and use it's parts as the basis of the build. BTs, CRs, MMT, retainer, nosecone. Pretty much Everything I need is already in that kit. Build the baffle and the tailcone and I'll have everything but the rails.

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Hmmm, I wonder if that's why I ordered me a Scion this week.....Also the fins on the original Pro Series are built up from balsa and cardstock skins, since mine will be flying on F's, G's, H's, I's it will use ply as the basis and contoured basswood in place of the cardstock ala Nike Smoke fins. I will be doing a build thread on it for sure.

Very nice - that sounds like an awesome project. When I get home from work I'll dig up my notes on the build and how I came to the body tube lengths.

Overall length of main Airframe tube should be ~28.75" if made from one single piece, but that does not include the length of the Tail cone. The original was two pieces for the airframe a 21.5" and a 7" piece, however my source is kinda shaky on that, the tailcone has a length of approximately 1.5 to 1.69", OAL including the PSII 3" nose cone should be about 39.5" if its actually to scale. I have actually built the full scale 1:1 in OpenRocket and scaled it to the 3" Estes Tubing to get my total airframe length and tailcone lengths. The Pro Series also used slightly larger than scale fins iirc for stability reasons.

Adam, the clone you did is beautiful, hope it flys great for you.

for what it worth, I tweaked my open rocket file to include a tail cone. it might be cheaper to use a big daddy as a nose cone donor, and bms for the rest of the parts(fin slots of the BD are too long if you use a tail cone). oddly enough the actual missile it looks like the fins don't follow the contour of the tail cone so, my ork file would get you pretty close to a scale look. note, the mass over rides should be reset to match your reality .
Rex

View attachment rcrpatriotv4.ork

FWIW, I've got no info on the Pro Series Patriot. I've never looked into building one until now. That said, after looking at JimZ's instructions it looks like it might be fun to build a mod version of it with a larger (single) motor.

Rharshberger thank you for your kind words. You're absolutely correct about the tube lengths.


Not to belabor the point, but the tailcone is 1.5 inches long (distance between last two centering rings, as per the instructions.) The two body tubes are 21.5 and 7 inches long. Adding the 9 inch nose cone gets to the total length of 39 inches, as listed in the Estes catalog.

I originally found this post for the tube lengths:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?98540-Estes-Pro-Series-Patriot


This may also help for the tail cone and fins, taken from the fin template and instructions on the JimZ site (drawing not to scale):


**EDIT: I should definitely not claim to be an expert about this. I don't have the actual model in hand to verify these measurements, and I came up with the above based on Jim-Z fin template. This should closely approximate the Estes model. I would not use it for a true to life scale build. The 1/8" from the trailing edge to the tail cone base is taken off of the assumption that the cone is 1.5" long and the angled part of the fin (which overlaps the tail cone) is 1.375" long on the pattern I have.




Now lets build a few of them and drag race.

If you want to a Patriot Drag Race then you need a to scale launcher box to launch them from, that would be a cool drag race.