Estes Pro Patriot Clone Build

Now let's suppose someone wanted to upscale this. Say perhaps into an L2 rocket. How might one consider the fabrication of the tailcone? Would a CA impregnated card stock be sufficient for a mach transition?

Kruegon said:

Now let's suppose someone wanted to upscale this. Say perhaps into an L2 rocket. How might one consider the fabrication of the tailcone? Would a CA impregnated card stock be sufficient for a mach transition?

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Balsa or thin aircraft ply (as in 1/64" or 1/32" ply, multiple layers) laminated with fiberglass, easy peesy. That and I would kit bash a Madcow Patriot to do it.

yes...but, I would extend the motor mount far enough aft so that the retainer hits the ground first rather than the tail cone. or you could also make a two layer cone to add some strength(you still don't want the bird landing on it). the card stock/CA/spot putty is how I did the tail cone on my 3" Wac Corporal, it seems to be holding up(tail section lands on the motor retainer and the fins extend to the rear of the tail cone).
Rex

Looks like on the real item, the boat tail starts more rearward than the high point of the fin, and the leading edge has another bevel..this is from white sands....

Since we have been discussing the Patriot Pro, I just received my Scion from Estes and my PNC-300K from BMS and here is a photo comparison.

The Estes nose cone is a 3:1 which is closest to a real scale Patriot NC (which is something like 2.7:1 iirc). The PNC-300K is a 3.6:1 (just over 11") both will obviously work. The PNC-300K is a upscale of the PNC-80K.

Too bad I have to wait for Fathers Day to be allowed to play with my new toys. The Scion NC will be used on a Pro Series Patriot semi clone, the PNC-300K I plan on using for the Scion, and I am going to order another PNC-300K for my upscale Aries SST.

ama said:

And here's the final result after decals and some clear coat. For recovery it has a 24" chute with a chute protector.

View attachment 264196View attachment 264197

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Just a quick question. I'm working it up a little different. The MMT and CRs are getting the PSII treatment. And I'm drawing out the fins to match up with the PSII 3" slotted body tube. I need one more measurement to complete the .rkt file. How far from the base of the tailcone to the trailing edge of the fin? Ok and a second question, how long, wide and thick are the rails? Need to get it right. I don't want to build this thing twice.

well unless you're entering it in a scale contest where they use micrometers...near as I can tell trailing edge to aft end of the boat tail is blond hair over 3/16"(+- a red hair ).
Rex

ok. When I simmed it out by measurements, I came up to 1/4" shy of the end of the tail cone. So should be close enough. Now I just gotta get the rail measurements.

Not sure where I got this PDF of the Patriot Missle from, I was probably surfing the web and found it or it was somewhere on TRF. But I has all the info you might need to scale build a Patriot.


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Ok that is way beyond helpful. If only we could locate more files like this. I'd love to find a set of these for the PAC-2 and PAC-3 versions. Not to mention the Nike series missiles. I've been trying to find a nose cone for the Estes Nike Ajax but no luck so far. It'll be a couple of months, but I'll post my Patriot build thread when I get started. I've got a lot of new data to work with. Time for a series of Patriots in varying sizes. SEND IN THE CLONES!

Kruegon said:

Ok that is way beyond helpful. If only we could locate more files like this. I'd love to find a set of these for the PAC-2 and PAC-3 versions. Not to mention the Nike series missiles. I've been trying to find a nose cone for the Estes Nike Ajax but no luck so far. It'll be a couple of months, but I'll post my Patriot build thread when I get started. I've got a lot of new data to work with. Time for a series of Patriots in varying sizes. SEND IN THE CLONES!

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Clones... Ok... No Clowns allowed though.

According to research I did (about 5 minutes worth), the Nike Ajax used the BNC-20CB. Apparently this was the only kit that ever used them in the Estes lineup. Semroc sold a BNC-20CB, and Randy (erockets.biz) may have them now, or might be able to produce them soon (after finishing the company's move).

A quick search shows that BMS doesn't offer the nosecone.

Oh, and the BT-20AE is 1.5" long :wink:

Pointy Side Up!

Hey all,

I just wanted to say that in #29 I added a disclaimer. I hope I didn't come off as trying to provide scale information for the patriot. I just had a hard time finding the dimensions for replicating the estes kit (which I feel is more of an interpretation of the actual rocket), and wanted to post what I had found/calculated hoping it would be helpful for others.

Kruegon, I'm a little late with a response, but I think you have your answers above. FWIW I ended up with 1/8" from the trailing edge of the fin to the base of the cone, which I based off of the fin templates instruction dimensions (tail cone 1.5", taper section on the fin patterns 1.375). With the real kit, the aluminum end may extend the tail cone, so I would definitely trust Rex more - I don't have the true model. Also, I'm sorry that I can't give you an accurate side rail width; I approximated mine after looking at this photo:



Which is of a kit build I found a while ago on the internet. The photo is not mine, and I'm trying to get the source. Hopefully the photo might also helpful for you.

ama said:

Hey all,

I just wanted to say that in #29 I added a disclaimer. I hope I didn't come off as trying to provide scale information for the patriot. I just had a hard time finding the dimensions for replicating the estes kit (which I feel is more of an interpretation of the actual rocket), and wanted to post what I had found/calculated hoping it would be helpful for others.

Kruegon, I'm a little late with a response, but I think you have your answers above. FWIW I ended up with 1/8" from the trailing edge of the fin to the base of the cone, which I based off of the fin templates instruction dimensions (tail cone 1.5", taper section on the fin patterns 1.375). With the real kit, the aluminum end may extend the tail cone, so I would definitely trust Rex more - I don't have the true model. Also, I'm sorry that I can't give you an accurate side rail width; I approximated mine after looking at this photo:

View attachment 265581

Which is of a kit build I found a while ago on the internet. The photo is not mine, and I'm trying to get the source. Hopefully the photo might also helpful for you.

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Not a problem Ama, we all encounter some form of variations in any kit we clone, without having the exact parts the manufacturers use or the actual manufacturers drawings we do the best we can. You did an awesome job on your PS Patriot clone.

rharshberger said:

That and I would kit bash a Madcow Patriot to do it.

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If I were going to buy a Madcow Patriot, why would I not just use the kit instead of kit bashing it with spare parts?

Kruegon said:

If I were going to buy a Madcow Patriot, why would I not just use the kit instead of kit bashing it with spare parts?

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It needs a fair bit of finessing to make into a PS Patriot upscale, but it has most of the parts necessary to start with.

ama said:

Hey all,

I just wanted to say that in #29 I added a disclaimer. I hope I didn't come off as trying to provide scale information for the patriot. I just had a hard time finding the dimensions for replicating the estes kit (which I feel is more of an interpretation of the actual rocket), and wanted to post what I had found/calculated hoping it would be helpful for others.

Kruegon, I'm a little late with a response, but I think you have your answers above. FWIW I ended up with 1/8" from the trailing edge of the fin to the base of the cone, which I based off of the fin templates instruction dimensions (tail cone 1.5", taper section on the fin patterns 1.375). With the real kit, the aluminum end may extend the tail cone, so I would definitely trust Rex more - I don't have the true model. Also, I'm sorry that I can't give you an accurate side rail width; I approximated mine after looking at this photo:

View attachment 265581

Which is of a kit build I found a while ago on the internet. The photo is not mine, and I'm trying to get the source. Hopefully the photo might also helpful for you.

Click to expand...

It's never too late. Building a clone or scaling a model from an actual object is always a work in progress. I suffer from extreme ARS and I never jump in until I am satisfied that I have all the proper info I require to build it properly. I did that once, I was not happy with the results. I have a RockSim file I made for the Estes Argent. I spent over 3 hours just working on the fins for the file. I do believe it is as accurate of a sim file for the Argent as can be produced with RockSim. And all of that was just so that I could downscale the Argent to smaller forms. Why? Why not? 13mm, 18mm, 24mm, and 29mm Argents all painted to match and scaled by main BT size. It'll make a Purdy picture. I have 5 days to have all of them built and painted if I'm going to take them to Southern Thunder. The Patriot clone will be no less impressive. Each detail mulled over and worried to exact points. And now with the PDF that was provided, I can not only compare to build a better Pro Patriot than I could have before, but I can enter the data as displayed and scale it to any BT size I want. Coming soon (next few years) 1:4 and 1:2 Patriots based on the PDF data. Though I am not sure where I can find 8" BTs. I've only ever seen 7.5" in my searches. Ah well, the mysteries of rocketry.

Sonotube concrete forms may be your answer for the 8" or find out how Frank Burke builds his large lightweight rockets from Depron.

according to the NAR scale data sheet (so helpfully posted above, thank you) the distance from the base of the rocket to fin trailing edge is 0.925". for a 3" dia. version (3/16) this works out to 5.55/32"...just make the gap 3/16" and call it good .
Rex