What is the biggest motor ever made not by a company like NASA???

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What is the biggest motor ever made by a company like Loki, CTI, Aerotech, Ellis or any other HPR company?????? Answer appreciated... Thanks, Rockets.....
 
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Starting with O motors companies tend to lease or lend hardware, which makes business sense for that sort of propellant load. P, Q, I hear of happening from time to time but as one off or experimental types. R and up, I never even hear about.
 
What type of "S" motor white green blue skidmark?? how many newtons per second S-20,000 S45,000???? What is the biggest Skidmark (Sparky) motor ever made???
 
Just looked it up according to Encyclopedia Astronautix it was a S-50000
 
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Most really big motors are built for "go" not "show".

Sparkies have anywhere from 12-20% less umph than any other propellent for the same size case. So for any purpose other than "show" it's not used.
The largest skid we [Team Wildman]have flown is the CTI O-3700 at a cost of over 3,000.00

The S motor was built for lofting payloads to over 400,000ft . Somewhere I have a pic of one,if I can find it.
I don't know what the propellent is, definitely not a color.

Here's the "Mega DarkStar" on the O-3700..........

_LLS0619.jpg

_LLS0633.jpg
 
blackjack2564 said:
Most really big motors are built for "go" not "show".

Sparkies have anywhere from 12-20% less umph than any other propellent for the same size case. So for any purpose other than "show" it's not used.
The largest skid we [Team Wildman]have flown is the CTI O-3700 at a cost of over 3,000.00

The S motor was built for lofting payloads to over 400,000ft . Somewhere I have a pic of one,if I can find it.
I don't know what the propellent is, definitely not a color.

Here's the "Mega DarkStar" on the O-3700..........
Click to expand...

Is that yours??? WOW!! Any video??
 
No self respecting space agency is going to use a skid to loft anything other than fireworks. It loose to much thrust to make special effects.
 
I find it a bit unfair to count CTI's S motor, primarily because that was almost certainly built by Cesaroni's aerospace and defense division for A&D purposes, and not by the HPR division (or for HPR purposes). It's kinda like some odd scenario where ATK decides to get into the HPR market, and then claim that the SRB is the biggest motor ever made. :2:
 
jmattingly13 said:
I find it a bit unfair to count CTI's S motor, primarily because that was almost certainly built by Cesaroni's aerospace and defense division for A&D purposes, and not by the HPR division (or for HPR purposes). It's kinda like some odd scenario where ATK decides to get into the HPR market, and then claim that the SRB is the biggest motor ever made. :2:
Click to expand...

Nope.... you have a large project the money, & you too can buy one. Several colleges have purchased them. But that's where the cost only starts, you must rent by the day a facility & crew to launch it.
Granted they will not sell one to any yahoo, but for a legit project, it is available.

You ain't gonna get your hands on a SRB no matter what!

So I suppose it's how you look at it. But is not impossible to acquire like most other motors.
 
blackjack2564 said:
No Wildman owns it.
I did work non stop for 10 days with him to build it, start to finish! We flew it 3 times so far.....1-O & 2-P's

Here's a shot of S motor....you will have to pay a large sum of money to see what's inside...LOL

View attachment 263446

Here's a pic of O motor hanging out the back.....

View attachment 263447 View attachment 263448

Here's the build thread I did.....

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...uot-MEGA-quot-DarkStar-at-LDRS-quot-O-quot-my!
Click to expand...

How much money!!?? lol.. :)
 
This is probably the most common rocket launch video you can find on youtube

[video=youtube;vL1eXdVjN74]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL1eXdVjN74[/video]

What motor you think it goes on?
 
One correction to the title of this thread.

The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) is the United States government agency responsible for the civilian space program as well as aeronautics and aerospace research. NASA is a technology development and purchasing agency. NASA does not make rocket motors, or rockets or even most satellites, they purchase them from civilian contractors. NASA decides what is needed to perform a mission, develops a set of specifications, and puts the job out for bids. Commercial civilian aerospace companies respond by writing a proposal and submits a quotation that includes the cost of the job, and NASA awards a contract for a job on both the price and the ability of the company to deliver the product on time and within budget.

The largest solid rocket motors built were made by ATK and Hercules. The most powerful liquid motors are the current Glushko Lox/Kerosene RD-170/RD-171 family of motors and the slightly less powerful Rocketdyne Lox/Kerosene F-1 used in the Saturn-V.

FAA Class 2 rockets weight more than 1.5 kg and can have a total impulse up to a full O (40.96 kNs) and require a simple FAA waiver. FAA Class 3 rockets have installed total impulse greater than a Class 2 rocket and up to 890 kNs and require a full blown trajectory and safety analysis. Most if not all APCP motor manufacturers have made class 3 motors, principally P impulse, and CTI manufactures S motors and larger if requested. Amateur groups such as GoFast 2004 have an S impulse motor made and used a CTI S motor for their 10 Anniversary flight in 2014.

Commercial APCP costs about $120+ per kg. and when propellant grains exceed 1.4 kg, shipment requires an exclusive explosives truck @$3+ per mile, so Class 3 motors are expensive to make and ship. Considering that there is about 370 kg of propellant in a 100% T motor, you are looking at a $100K+ motor that burns between $10K-$20K per second! So the market is quite limited. :wink:

Bob
 
bobkrech said:
One correction to the title of this thread.

The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) is the United States government agency responsible for the civilian space program as well as aeronautics and aerospace research. NASA is a technology development and purchasing agency. NASA does not make rocket motors, or rockets or even most satellites, they purchase them from civilian contractors. NASA decides what is needed to perform a mission, develops a set of specifications, and puts the job out for bids. Commercial civilian aerospace companies respond by writing a proposal and submits a quotation that includes the cost of the job, and NASA awards a contract for a job on both the price and the ability of the company to deliver the product on time and within budget.

The largest solid rocket motors built were made by ATK and Hercules. The most powerful liquid motors are the current Glushko Lox/Kerosene RD-170/RD-171 family of motors and the slightly less powerful Rocketdyne Lox/Kerosene F-1 used in the Saturn-V.

FAA Class 2 rockets weight more than 1.5 kg and can have a total impulse up to a full O (40.96 kNs) and require a simple FAA waiver. FAA Class 3 rockets have installed total impulse greater than a Class 2 rocket and up to 890 kNs and require a full blown trajectory and safety analysis. Most if not all APCP motor manufacturers have made class 3 motors, principally P impulse, and CTI manufactures S motors and larger if requested. Amateur groups such as GoFast 2004 have an S impulse motor made and used a CTI S motor for their 10 Anniversary flight in 2014.

Commercial APCP costs about $120+ per kg. and when propellant grains exceed 1.4 kg, shipment requires an exclusive explosives truck @$3+ per mile, so Class 3 motors are expensive to make and ship. Considering that there is about 370 kg of propellant in a 100% T motor, you are looking at a $100K+ motor that burns between $10K-$20K per second! So the market is quite limited. :wink:

Bob
Click to expand...

Very cool info, thanks! I wonder, how does the cost of buying one of those CTI S motors (and building the rocket) compare to say purchasing a commercial sounding rocket to fly a payload to space?
 
RocketHunter said:
Very cool info, thanks! I wonder, how does the cost of buying one of those CTI S motors (and building the rocket) compare to say purchasing a commercial sounding rocket to fly a payload to space?
Click to expand...
Post #3 $60K, but that's only a small part of the cost of using it. It's not a one person project, and by the time your team gets all the required permits (Black Rock is the just about only place amateurs can be granted a permit with TRA assistance) after you pass the Class 3 paperwork requirements, build the rocket and the payload, and assemble and transport your team and equipment to the launch site, and complete the launch and return home after several years of work, you've likely spent upwards of $500K......for a ~2 minute excursion into space (100+ km) on a suborbital trajectory.

Bob
 
blackjack2564 said:
Here's a shot of S motor....you will have to pay a large sum of money to see what's inside...LOL
Click to expand...

I have had the pleasure to see...
Had the chance to stand on TWO crated and, ready for another Truck Driver to transport...
Had the chance to see the filament winder/mandrel used to make the casing...
See the test cell where the formulation was tweaked to perfection...
Seen the damage one performed on previously said cell when it *Burped*.
Shared a good awe struck laugh with Dr. J over that one!
Held a fin can used by the customer to steer this monster into Space...

Been very humbled to know people like *J* :point: who have the talent/skills to do this and, allow me to see these things while asking a boatload of questions.

A very memorable trip to Canada. :eek:
 
nh4clo4 said:
If my math is correct that would be a 437616 S-39093.

How much bigger are the next ones? :)
Click to expand...

Well if you scale it up by 25% in all 3 dimensions you're just below a full T, and would be an amazing engine for a Land Speed Record attempt at Bonneville...:wink:

Bob
 
jmattingly13 said:
I find it a bit unfair to count CTI's S motor, primarily because that was almost certainly built by Cesaroni's aerospace and defense division for A&D purposes, and not by the HPR division (or for HPR purposes). It's kinda like some odd scenario where ATK decides to get into the HPR market, and then claim that the SRB is the biggest motor ever made. :2:
Click to expand...
HP motors are by definition FAA Class 2 motors and fall under NFPA 1125 and 1127. An S motor is a FAA Class 3 motor, not a high power motor, and does not fall under any NFPA classification so they are not certifiable as high power motors and different rules apply. Accordingly Class 3 motors are considered research motors by TRA whether they are commercially made or not and TRA research rules apply as does the discretion of the TRA BOD and the FAA on their use if the use is at a TRA sanctioned launch.

Bob
 
locomotive-sw1500_532x342.jpg


Here’s a CIT SW1500. Not sure what the Newton/Seconds is for this.

What’s that?

It’s CTI?

Never mind.
 

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