Help Me Understand EZ reloads.

Kruegon · May 17, 2015

I have only recently become familiar and comfortable with RMS. I'm now building DD rockets. This uses plugged forward closures and no BP. In the EZ reloads, I understand the delay and all is pre-assembled. Uses a different closure. Nothing like what I have now. How does this change the plugged closure usage? I just don't get it. Probably because I've never built one yet. Thanks.

rcktnut · May 17, 2015

I guess eventually we can all throw our forward closures away and buy the rings to replace them.To plug the EZ's just leave out the BP, stuff the well with dog barf and tape shut. Get the idea in your head that a phenolic/plastic closure is better than the aluminum ones you have now, even though there have been several reports of blow by already. I'm sure hundreds/thousands have been flown without issue, but I trust my assembly and aluminum closures more. Don't have any idea how to use these in a minimum dia. rocket that needs a tapped closure. I would hope that they will offer both versions, but doesn't look like it.

grouch · May 17, 2015

Personally I will try one or two. That said I don't like change and I really like my hardware! I wished the new H550ST would come in a RMS plus version, I'd be on that like white on rice.

tfish · May 17, 2015

https://blog.siriusrocketry.com/2013/09/taking-look-at-new-aerotech-rms-ez.html

Tony

rcktnut · May 17, 2015

tfish said:
https://blog.siriusrocketry.com/2013/09/taking-look-at-new-aerotech-rms-ez.html

Tony

These = $206.00 + $80.00 for 2 54mm. closures not pictured + $130.00 for equal amount replacement rings + 2 54mm. rings ??? - 1 or 2 bucks for aluminum scrap. That being said, EZ loads don't look to bad, still bothers me with reported issues. I like my hardware and assembling my delays also.

grouch · May 17, 2015

Goodness those are beautiful.

ksaves2 · May 17, 2015

Question for those in the know. I took a look at the RMS-EZ forward closure arrangement and how would this affect a flyer who uses a plugged forward closure threaded or otherwise?

I presume one could load the propellant grains/liner just like before but if they want to run the delay grain for smoke, they would have to buy AT delay grains or buy the clear tubing from AT to make their own?

I fly mainly electronics now and occasionally fly motor ejection. Doesn't look like the EZ closure would be "easy" to dig the delay grain out for use and of course, when flying electronics the delay time of the grain is not as important. If
it burns long, one gets to possibly see the descent beginning on an "outta sight" flight.

Oh, sometimes a threaded forward closure "has" to be used for minimum diameter retention.

My take on this is it won't necessarily "obsolete" ones current hardware as long as "loose" delay grains are still available. I laid in a supply awhile back. Kurt

rcktnut · May 17, 2015

I bought all brand new as well as the 3 set 54's and clean them as soon as I get home from a launch no matter how late it is. Closures get soaked in vinegar for 15 minutes then in the pail of soapy water with the cases. I use brushes with plastic handles no wire/ metal handles, tooth brush for threads, and a good old rag for cleaning. I let dry overnight, lightly grease inside of cases and threads with Super Lube next day and store in plastic tubes. I make sure that no metal quick links etc. come into contact with the cases in rockets with shorter MMT's than the cases are. Cleaning/ maintaining my motors, rocket components, launch equipment is a part of the hobby I enjoy almost as much as building and launching.

rcktnut · May 17, 2015

ksaves2 said:
Question for those in the know. I took a look at the RMS-EZ forward closure arrangement and how would this affect a flyer who uses a plugged forward closure threaded or otherwise?

I presume one could load the propellant grains/liner just like before but if they want to run the delay grain for smoke, they would have to buy AT delay grains or buy the clear tubing from AT to make their own?

I fly mainly electronics now and occasionally fly motor ejection. Doesn't look like the EZ closure would be "easy" to dig the delay grain out for use and of course, when flying electronics the delay time of the grain is not as important. If
it burns long, one gets to possibly see the descent beginning on an "outta sight" flight.

Oh, sometimes a threaded forward closure "has" to be used for minimum diameter retention.

My take on this is it won't necessarily "obsolete" ones current hardware as long as "loose" delay grains are still available. I laid in a supply awhile back. Kurt

Again for using the EZ closure which are SINGLE USE, as plugged, you just omit the BP, stuff the well with dog barf and tape shut. If using with delay just drill to the time needed. DO NOT dig out the delay grain, to not touch other than drilling your time needed. You get a new EZ forward closure with delay grain with every reload.

tfish · May 17, 2015

A turned down blind nut is epoxied into the bottom on the ejection well.

You can see threads left in the epoxy from the bolt holding the blind nut in place.

Buy ejection parts from RCS https://www.rocketmotorparts.com/
You can even buy sticks of delay grains https://www.rocketmotorparts.com/Delay_and_Smoke_Grains/cat1577810_2542245.aspx

Tony

rcktnut · May 17, 2015

tfish said:
A turned down blind nut is epoxied into the bottom on the ejection well.

You can see threads left in the epoxy from the bolt holding the blind nut in place.

Buy ejection parts from RCS https://www.rocketmotorparts.com/
You can even buy sticks of delay grains https://www.rocketmotorparts.com/Delay_and_Smoke_Grains/cat1577810_2542245.aspx

Tony

Now I have some questions. Do you use that over? Do you reload that with the parts you listed? This would be consider EX only then right? Whatever it is sure looks like it takes the easy out of EZ.

rharshberger · May 17, 2015

tfish said:
A turned down blind nut is epoxied into the bottom on the ejection well.

You can see threads left in the epoxy from the bolt holding the blind nut in place.

Buy ejection parts from RCS https://www.rocketmotorparts.com/
You can even buy sticks of delay grains https://www.rocketmotorparts.com/Delay_and_Smoke_Grains/cat1577810_2542245.aspx

Tony

Now Aerotech needs to come out with a statement saying that epoxying a blindnut into the powder well is an acceptable "modification" and have it certified throught NRA/TRA, other wise that certified reload just became a EX reload. I believe CTI has done this already, iirc CJ may know the source.

UhClem · May 17, 2015

rharshberger said:
Now Aerotech needs to come out with a statement saying that epoxying a blindnut into the powder well is an acceptable "modification" and have it certified throught NRA/TRA, other wise that certified reload just became a EX reload. I believe CTI has done this already, iirc CJ may know the source.

Why not just look at the plugged forward closure for end burning motors?

rharshberger · May 17, 2015

UhClem said:
Why not just look at the plugged forward closure for end burning motors?

Thats an option too. But why buy another closure if you dont have to and you can epoxy up a lot of EZ closures for a lot less than another closure. Granted I like all metal hardware
myself.

markkoelsch · May 17, 2015

Use aluminum tape around airframe and rear closure. KISS.

ksaves2 · May 17, 2015

rharshberger said:
Thats an option too. But why buy another closure if you dont have to and you can epoxy up a lot of EZ closures for a lot less than another closure. Granted I like all metal hardware
myself.

So I take it that if one wants to use a current plugged closure or a threaded plugged closure, it is possible with the "new" propellant grains? I already have an investment in the plugged forward closures so I have no need to modify
an RMS-EZ closure. Yes, I understand one can just tape over/occlude the hole to "make" a plugged closure but I prefer to use what I already have on hand. Seems like a PITA to constantly modify the RMS-EZ closure for threaded use.
I wouldn't trust it for multiple uses but if just needing it for an occasional project wouldn't be that bad as long as one has the tools on hand to make the modification.

For motor ejection, I don't think it's a big deal as long as the new forward retainer is reasonably priced. Kurt

rharshberger · May 17, 2015

ksaves2 said:
So I take it that if one wants to use a current plugged closure or a threaded plugged closure, it is possible with the "new" propellant grains? I already have an investment in the plugged forward closures so I have no need to modify
an RMS-EZ closure. Yes, I understand one can just tape over/occlude the hole to "make" a plugged closure but I prefer to use what I already have on hand. Seems like a PITA to constantly modify the RMS-EZ closure for threaded use.
I wouldn't trust it for multiple uses but if just needing it for an occasional project wouldn't be that bad as long as one has the tools on hand to make the modification.

For motor ejection, I don't think it's a big deal as long as the new forward retainer is reasonably priced. Kurt

The new forward retainer for RMS-EZ is or was free with the purchase of two reloads iirc, not sure this is still the case. Its also the same retainer ring that is used in the Reload Adapter System.

And yes constantly modding the regular EZ forward closure would be extra work.

tfish · May 17, 2015

rcktnut said:
Now I have some questions. Do you use that over? Do you reload that with the parts you listed? This would be consider EX only then right? Whatever it is sure looks like it takes the easy out of EZ.

I stayed at Holiday in last night...Most of what I fly is Research. This will be that EZ forward closures third use. It's currently load with an I100 moon burner. I like them. They are very easy for me to "turn around" and have been holding up well. I had to "stock" lots of parts for the normal RMS forward closures.

What I do is Research. All of our launches are flown as Research. It would be easy enough to email Aerotech and ask if the blind nut and epoxy is an approved method. One other option (also needing AT approval) is just drilling through the BP well. It works well on AT DMS motors. I have not done this on the EZ forward closures, but feel is should work.

Tony

bob jablonski · May 17, 2015

rharshberger said:
The new forward retainer for RMS-EZ is or was free with the purchase of two reloads iirc, not sure this is still the case. Its also the same retainer ring that is used in the Reload Adapter System.

And yes constantly modding the regular EZ forward closure would be extra work.

AT gave one for every 2 ez motors a dealer ordered like the Dat tool for the SMS and EZ's. I still have some of the freebee items so when I sell to someone that doesn't have the parts I still hook em up. The best part of the EZ's is say you need a 12 sec delay. Med is to short and long is to long. Just trim what you need.

Kruegon · May 18, 2015

This will get interesting. If the motor is still the same, and the tapped forward closure will still work with the motor grain, then I have no problem purchasing the delay grain separately for use on my min diameter rockets.

rcktnut · May 26, 2015

Another RMS-EZ failure: Note post #34 That don't happen when I assemble my own delays!! https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?70242-Titan-II/page2

burkefj · May 26, 2015

You can use the long burn plugged closure and not need any other reload parts, just leave out the ez front closure, easy cleanup and assembly, but you don't get tracking smoke.

rcktnut · May 27, 2015

burkefj said:
You can use the long burn plugged closure and not need any other reload parts, just leave out the ez front closure, easy cleanup and assembly, but you don't get tracking smoke.

Right, I understand that but Aerotech is considering going to all RMS-EZ 29mm.-54mm anyway and if you need motor ejection you have to take the chance that what happened to you will occur. The EZ's do not look so good right now. I say make them for those that wish to use them but also keep the RMS + around also for those of us that wish to assemble our own delays. I would even pay more for a RMS+ than a RMS-EZ!!

burkefj · May 27, 2015

Karl mentioned that aerotech may offer foward parts kits for those that prefer them, for a few dollars...

rharshberger · May 27, 2015

burkefj said:
Karl mentioned that aerotech may offer foward parts kits for those that prefer them, for a few dollars...

Seems stupid to pay more to fly a simpler to manufacture motor than one with pre-made forward closure. But "if thats the way he wants it, Well, he gets it. I dont like it anymore than you men"

Kruegon · May 27, 2015

It just seems to me that AT is killing off a rather popular portion of their market this way. The min diam club is rather large around here. I don't do much min diam but I do like to build near min diam. Building a 3" 54mm rocket and planning to use the tapped closure for the shock cord.

Ever hear the saying, "cutting the nose off to spite the face"?

rharshberger · May 27, 2015

For MD you just replace the RMS-EZ forward closure with the regular plugged closure, no big deal really. What I prefer is using the metal delay closures and not the phenolic closures that are standard with EZs, and I still can it just requires buying the delay parts.

rcktnut · May 27, 2015

I just want a choice between RMS+ and EZ. The RMS+ has been so reliable, a great proven design and so far too many issues with the EZ.

T-Rex · May 27, 2015

I have an EZ motor (I211, maybe) at home for that was intended to flight test my L2 bird. I may have to rethink this a bit.

rcktnut · Jun 14, 2015

Add this one to the RMS-EZ failure list:https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...ech-J350-RMS-EZ-Failure&p=1467981#post1467981

Help Me Understand EZ reloads.

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