AeroTech Open Thread

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crossfire said:
For me that is no excuse CTI has been down for over a year. No reason at all to buy a reload if you can't get the hardware.
Click to expand...

Trying to think of what reload I don't have a reason to buy.
068.jpg


More of a problem for me was finding a CTI reload that I could fly in one of my 50+ rockets. I must have walked through the AMW trailer half a dozen times looking for a load at Airfest. Pickings were slim to say the least, especially in the 54mm sweet spot, 4 to 6XL grains.
Despite this so called shortage, I posted up a request for a 54/1706 casing last month and made the deal a week later.

Just sayin'...
 
crossfire said:
I have never understood If there is no hard wear for sale why buy reloads. Its like buying a new car but you will have to wait 6 Months or more for the tires.
Click to expand...

Kind of the same but opposite problem with "that other manufacturer".... Lots of hardware, but no propellant.... It'll all come in balance sooner or later.
 
Wayco said:
Trying to think of what reload I don't have a reason to buy.
068.jpg


[/FONT][/SIZE]
Click to expand...

Wayne,

My initial gut reaction was to say, "Show off!" :)

But then I remembered you have two L3's in your home, so that's not a bad collection of hardware to share between you. In my case I have to bear the burden all by myself. There's no way I'm posting my inventory, for fear that someone will try to blackmail me by showing the pics to my better half. :surprised:
 
Wayco said:
Trying to think of what reload I don't have a reason to buy.
068.jpg


More of a problem for me was finding a CTI reload that I could fly in one of my 50+ rockets. I must have walked through the AMW trailer half a dozen times looking for a load at Airfest. Pickings were slim to say the least, especially in the 54mm sweet spot, 4 to 6XL grains.
Despite this so called shortage, I posted up a request for a 54/1706 casing last month and made the deal a week later.

Just sayin'...
Click to expand...

Worsaer said:
Wayne,

My initial gut reaction was to say, "Show off!" :)

But then I remembered you have two L3's in your home, so that's not a bad collection of hardware to share between you. In my case I have to bear the burden all by myself. There's no way I'm posting my inventory, for fear that someone will try to blackmail me by showing the pics to my better half. :surprised:
Click to expand...

I think my hardware collection is pretty close to that if not more. One of the small advantages of being divorced... :eyeroll:
Lets see....
I have all the AT/Rouse/Dr Rocket 98 cases, all the 75 mm up to the 6400, with a spare 5120, all the 54mm with a spare 1706 (which Wildman had to borrow for Airfest...), all of the 38mm cases, all the 29mm with an extra 180 and two extra 360's, all the hobby line (three 29's and two 24's). Oh, almost forgot. A 29mm 180-240 Millennium set, a 38mm Millennium set to 720, a 54 Millennium set to 1706.
And then there's the CTI stuff up to 54mm... And two little 38mm Loki motors for color contrast...
Crap, I shouldn't have listed all that... :blush:
 
crossfire said:
For me that is no excuse CTI has been down for over a year. No reason at all to buy a reload if you can't get the hardware.
Click to expand...

The lack of hardware is simply not comprehensible to me. This isn't a custom fitted automobile... these are CNC machined aluminum parts. While I'm sure there are quality control steps to be taken for each production lot, I find it odd that this particular supply chain seems to be so stopped up. I've looked at nearly a dozen vendors and only one (BMS) appears to not have MOST 29mm RMS parts out of stock. Of course they are OOS on the 29/240 casing which is what I want... NOBODY I've checked seems to have that one.
 
DeltaVee said:
The lack of hardware is simply not comprehensible to me. This isn't a custom fitted automobile... these are CNC machined aluminum parts. While I'm sure there are quality control steps to be taken for each production lot, I find it odd that this particular supply chain seems to be so stopped up. I've looked at nearly a dozen vendors and only one (BMS) appears to not have MOST 29mm RMS parts out of stock. Of course they are OOS on the 29/240 casing which is what I want... NOBODY I've checked seems to have that one.
Click to expand...
I wish they would say something about it instead of being quiet. I had to buy my case used as no vendors had it in stock and I can't find anyone with an RMS system for 54mm either. Like is there a problem or did they just stop making a bunch of stuff? At least CTI has released updates on their situation. Barely got into Aerotech and am glad I started with CTI after this mess.
 
jd2cylman said:
I think my hardware collection is pretty close to that if not more. One of the small advantages of being divorced... :eyeroll:
Lets see....
I have all the AT/Rouse/Dr Rocket 98 cases, all the 75 mm up to the 6400, with a spare 5120, all the 54mm with a spare 1706 (which Wildman had to borrow for Airfest...), all of the 38mm cases, all the 29mm with an extra 180 and two extra 360's, all the hobby line (three 29's and two 24's). Oh, almost forgot. A 29mm 180-240 Millennium set, a 38mm Millennium set to 720, a 54 Millennium set to 1706.
And then there's the CTI stuff up to 54mm... And two little 38mm Loki motors for color contrast...
Crap, I shouldn't have listed all that... :blush:
Click to expand...

Adrian it looks like the American way some have it all while others have very little. See you at MWP. Hope for good weather.
 
DeltaVee said:
The lack of hardware is simply not comprehensible to me. [...] I've looked at nearly a dozen vendors and only one (BMS) appears to not have MOST 29mm RMS parts out of stock. Of course they are OOS on the 29/240 casing which is what I want....
Click to expand...

0011001100 said:
I had to buy my case used as no vendors had it in stock and I can't find anyone with an RMS system for 54mm either. Like is there a problem or did they just stop making a bunch of stuff?
Click to expand...

So, it looks like there may be a shortage of 29mm and maybe 54mm AT casings?

The reason I'm asking is that I haven't had any difficulties stocking up on 18, 24, and 38mm casing and closures this year.
I am now in the market for 54mm cases, and my casual browsing did not reveal any AT shortages of 54/852 or 54/1280 (J sizes), nor 54/2560 (K sizes).

I am not at all married to AT, and am in fact cross shopping across the brands (though haven't collected enough motor availability data to develop a preference).

Are 29mm cases the ones that are primarily in short supply?

a
 
I am pleased with the Aerotech RMS 38/480 casing system and the amount of reloads available to it. My university used the WARP9 propellant option for a research flight too in a world record attempt for L-1 specific impulse. Our group had zero HPR experience, we read the instructions, and we assembled the motors flawlessly. The products produced by aerotech simply work. The Aerotech reloads offer generally higher thrust and specific impulse than competitors especially in I class 38mm tubes. I was so impressed with the RMS quality, I bought a 38/480 casing for my L-1 cert rocket.

My only gripe is Aerotech doesn't make a 6 grain 29mm casing or have WARP 9 loads for 29mm motor casings in longer casing lengths. It would be real cool to have a 29/480/600/720 or something with WARP9 or blue thunder too. CTI has this casing called 6xl for 29mm, and currently their options are really a lot for the small diameter flyers, but the performance of their loads sucks. I'd love to see an HPR variant of a 24mm casing with longer casing length in H or I class too. The electronics are getting smaller. Aerotech you have the propellants. The customers just want more casing length options, more reload options per RMS system, and more vendors to reduce hazmat.


Aerotech.... You guys could beat CTI if you actually made a longer 29mm casing and perhaps improved motor options in 54mm and up sizes.
 
I haven't purchased any hardware other than a hobby motor case since AeroTech started making their own hardware. Could it be their supplier isn't keeping up. Amazing to me that they haven't responded to this thread that they started.
 
Andrew_ASC said:
Want 29/480 with warp9. And a 24/360 would also seem neat.
Click to expand...

My honest guess is that the hardware might have a problem holding up to a 29/360 warp nine load. That would be a serious load. When you get to longer motors you generally need a slower burning propellant to simplify things.


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
The CTI fire was tragic and therefore it hurt their production.
If I was a competitor I would have focused my efforts to step up propellant and hdw production to meet the current needs and garner new customers.
Example: There are plenty of us with AT, CTI or snap ring 75mm hardware that could use AT reloads right now but very little is available.
What I have witnessed in the past 2 years, is seeing more emphasis on new motor development and a little less of filling old and new orders.
 
Dave A said:
The CTI fire was tragic and therefore it hurt their production.
If I was a competitor I would have focused my efforts to step up propellant and hdw production to meet the current needs and garner new customers.
Example: There are plenty of us with AT, CTI or snap ring 75mm hardware that could use AT reloads right now but very little is available.
What I have witnessed in the past 2 years, is seeing more emphasis on new motor development and a little less of filling old and new orders.
Click to expand...
Hmm, I have plenty of 75mm reloads for aerotech, and haven't had a problem getting them. Hardware has been the only thing backordered this year, for the most part. There have been a few motor reload delays earlier this year but that was very brief.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Rocketry Forum mobile app
 
Just had my second CATO of a 40-120 Hobbyline case (my only CATOs in ~50 composite reload flights in 18-38mm). In both cases, the forward closure blew out due to apparent thread failure (post CATO, the threads on the forward closure are notably shiny, i.e. they have been scraped off to at least past the depth of the anodizing). Motors blew out just after coming to pressure, still on the rail. The rear closure and nozzle held, actually blowing out the back of the rocket and taking the Estes plastic retainer with it.

Sadly, both cases were outside the warranty so I'm kind of hosed on that end. Anybody else had similar failures with this casing? Seems like the thin wall (and thus shallow threading) of the case might be a marginal design (if anything, you'd think the plastic nozzle would go first in a true overpressure)? Which would be a shame, because I love the reloads - not a huge variety but inexpensive and great for the Estes PSII line.
 
Oberon said:
Just had my second CATO of a 40-120 Hobbyline case (my only CATOs in ~50 composite reload flights in 18-38mm). In both cases, the forward closure blew out due to apparent thread failure (post CATO, the threads on the forward closure are notably shiny, i.e. they have been scraped off to at least past the depth of the anodizing). Motors blew out just after coming to pressure, still on the rail. The rear closure and nozzle held, actually blowing out the back of the rocket and taking the Estes plastic retainer with it.

Sadly, both cases were outside the warranty so I'm kind of hosed on that end. Anybody else had similar failures with this casing?
Click to expand...

My 24/40 case is still holding up well after ~30-40 flights on D-F loads. Given that RMS motors are usually ~$5+/per cheaper than single-use motors, I need < 9 flights to come out ahead on complete new motor casing g purchase. On top of that, RMS motors offer far wider propellant and impulse variety than what's available in single-use catalog.

So far, I've had 2 malfunctions with 24/40 motots, but the case itself is still OK:
1). FWD closure was blown off the case once. It was the last flight of the evening, and I was tired. Likely user assembly error, no harm done to threads. Rocket sustained minor repairable damage.
2). Catastrophic FWD closure failure a few months ago. This one sounds somewhat similar to yours. It looked like the motor burned through the delay element cardboard casing and then the FWD closure sidewall (see pic below). The rocket turned into a flying candle stick sitting on the rail, burning through the MMT and rendering it a total loss. Surprisingly, only FWD closure took the hit, and once replaced (with all other parts thoroughly cleaned up), the engine flew again and again.
24-40 FWD closure.jpg

Oberon said:
Seems like the thin wall (and thus shallow threading) of the case might be a marginal design (if anything, you'd think the plastic nozzle would go first in a true overpressure)? Which would be a shame, because I love the reloads - not a huge variety but inexpensive and great for the Estes PSII line.
Click to expand...

Do you have any pictures of your failed casings and FWD closures?
That may help diagnose the issue.

If you consider that the motor reload starts burning in the back, and that the nozzle offers ready exit for the gasses, over-pressurization during initial burn would concentrate pressure near the area of the FWD closure. If any of the rubber rings or spacers were to let go, or were not perfectly seated, again, the FWD closure would take the hit.

It is interesting that the case can expand and allow FWD closure to get ejected. It's even more interestingly that this scenario may not always produce permanent case damage. Though, in your case, Oberon, it looks like it did just that. Luckily, 24mm AT casings are fairly inexpensive.

YMMV,
a

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Which reload was it? I had a G76-G CATO a couple years ago. Afterwards I heard from a few people that this motor is prone to CATO.

Oberon said:
Just had my second CATO of a 40-120 Hobbyline case (my only CATOs in ~50 composite reload flights in 18-38mm). In both cases, the forward closure blew out due to apparent thread failure (post CATO, the threads on the forward closure are notably shiny, i.e. they have been scraped off to at least past the depth of the anodizing). Motors blew out just after coming to pressure, still on the rail. The rear closure and nozzle held, actually blowing out the back of the rocket and taking the Estes plastic retainer with it.

Sadly, both cases were outside the warranty so I'm kind of hosed on that end. Anybody else had similar failures with this casing? Seems like the thin wall (and thus shallow threading) of the case might be a marginal design (if anything, you'd think the plastic nozzle would go first in a true overpressure)? Which would be a shame, because I love the reloads - not a huge variety but inexpensive and great for the Estes PSII line.
Click to expand...
 
tbonerocketeer said:
Hmm, I have plenty of 75mm reloads for aerotech, and haven't had a problem getting them. Hardware has been the only thing backordered this year, for the most part. There have been a few motor reload delays earlier this year but that was very brief.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Rocketry Forum mobile app
Click to expand...
Unfortunately for us here in VA there hasn't been enough interest in larger AT reloads to be able to buy at the field unlike previous years. I'm hoping that will improve if we can get a Red Glare in this year. Our luck is it will be when it's 35 deg!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Rocketry Forum mobile app
 
My 2nd CATO was a G64W. I don't recall what the first was, it was probably a G64W or a G76G. I'll try to get some pictures, but the damage is fairly subtle.
 
Oberon said:
Just had my second CATO of a 40-120 Hobbyline case (my only CATOs in ~50 composite reload flights in 18-38mm). In both cases, the forward closure blew out due to apparent thread failure (post CATO, the threads on the forward closure are notably shiny, i.e. they have been scraped off to at least past the depth of the anodizing). Motors blew out just after coming to pressure, still on the rail.
Click to expand...

I had this happen once when I assembled the delay grain upside-down in the forward closure. Any chance this is what happened?
 
Oberon said:
Just had my second CATO of a 40-120 Hobbyline case (my only CATOs in ~50 composite reload flights in 18-38mm). In both cases, the forward closure blew out due to apparent thread failure (post CATO, the threads on the forward closure are notably shiny, i.e. they have been scraped off to at least past the depth of the anodizing). Motors blew out just after coming to pressure, still on the rail. The rear closure and nozzle held, actually blowing out the back of the rocket and taking the Estes plastic retainer with it.

Sadly, both cases were outside the warranty so I'm kind of hosed on that end. Anybody else had similar failures with this casing? Seems like the thin wall (and thus shallow threading) of the case might be a marginal design (if anything, you'd think the plastic nozzle would go first in a true overpressure)? Which would be a shame, because I love the reloads - not a huge variety but inexpensive and great for the Estes PSII line.
Click to expand...

I just had a cato on a 29/40-120 casing last month, from all appearance the results were similar to yours (just as casing started to pressurize) except after much head scratching we believe the igniter wire plugged the nozzle, since it was found nearby z-folded on the motor side and still in the nozzle. It was a brand new casing and reload both bought in the last 6 months or so. Aerotech has said they will warranty it, thanks Karl.
 
Last edited:
First thing I would do is fill out a MESS report at motorcato.org.

Then I would contact Charlie Savoie at Aerotech ( ATGM on TRF).


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 

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