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  1. #61
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    16th May 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Initiator001 View Post
    Hello, Charlie!

    Long time no hear.

    Congratulations on the new job/title.

    The one thing I would like to know is when will AeroTech bring out some new kits?
    I have built/flown all of the current AeroTech kit line.
    A few new kits would refresh the product line.

    Thanks for your time.
    Looks like someone's mailbox is full, was trying to PM you.


  2. #62
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    I am an AeroTech fanboy
    I am an AeroTech fanboy

    That said, when I saw the JetHitch line of products, I was a bit concerned.
    As were 1 or 2 others

    BTW, I'm the guy that was attempting to make a comprehensive AeroTech motor list found in another thread. I have a suggestion or two regarding your future catalogs and the presentation of information. If you are interested, please PM me and I can briefly outline it for you.
    PM sent


  3. #63
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    16th May 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by 75Grandville View Post
    I think USPS shippable 38mm motors sound great!

    And again, thanks for all the info. Greatly appreciated. Any chance you'll be at Hellfire XX and/or NARAM?
    Not sure yet. Besides LDRS I haven't got plans. Hellfire sounds like a good one, I'll have to check.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    12th February 2013
    Posts
    7,197
    I have to say I really like the single-use and DMS lines.

    I like to use the E20's sold in 2 packs when I want to fly my Estes 24mm rockets a little harder.

    I buy a ton of EconoJet F motors for use in Estes PSII birds at our local LPR launches where they have a ceiling of 1,000 feet. They are a good value and turn in good flights under 1,000 feet. I always recommend these to other people who are asking about motors for PSII rockets.

    I also buy a lot of Single-Use G motors in all the different flavors for when I'm flying my PSII rockets over 1,000 feet, or when I'm flying larger 4" rockets like the MDRM or G-Force under 1,000 feet. G motors are the biggest motors I can fly at the LPR launches, so it's always fun to fly the biggest thing allowed at a particular launch, and I burn a couple at every one.

    I got my L1 cert on an H115DM. I think the DMS H motors are a GREAT option for KISS L1 attempts. I've bought a lot of H class DMS motors. I often recommend them to people considering an L1 attempt.

    Reloads are great for people who enjoy assembling the motors, and they can save money. But single-use and DMS motors let you pack in a few more launches in a busy day. Another good thing is that you don't have to prep them ahead to save time as I sometimes do with reloads. Sometimes launches get canceled at the last second, like Dairy Aire did. I'm sure there are a lot of people who loaded up their motors at home the night before only to find the launch canceled the next morning, and now their cases are full, with no option for using the motors until the next launch. What if those motors aren't appropriate for the next launch?

    More positive feedback --- I like your kits. My first AT kit was the G-Force that I got for Christmas, and I really like it. It went together easy, looks great, flies great. I modified mine to take longer motors and have flown it on H135, and it did well. I can see putting an I in it someday. My only complaint would be the nosecone is a bit lopsided, and I understand that is common --- you should fix that mold. I will definitely be buying more kits in the future, and it would be great to see the lineup expanded.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobob View Post
    Great to have you here Charlie! And, thank you for the insight into all things Aerotech. Can hardly wait to see the new products!
    Hey Robert good to hear from you. I'm excited for them also, should be fun.

  6. #66
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    12th February 2013
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    Too bad about Dairy Aire being canceled. I was really looking forward to the launch and it would have been nice to have met you. It's always great when top decisions makers avail themselves to their customers on the cusotmers' home turf. Thanks for coming out, even though it did not work out. I hope you can make it out here again to a TCC or LUNAR launch sometime soon.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATGM View Post
    Looks like someone's mailbox is full, was trying to PM you.
    Try it now.
    Bob

  8. #68
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    28th June 2011
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    Lynchburg, VA
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    59
    Thanks Charlie,

    I appreciate you coming on here and listing to our concerns with jethitch and other issues. I know for me when the hobby struggled with the BATF after a few years I dropped out for a while but came back. I just don't want to see those issues coming back.
    Rich Vanleer
    Tripoli Level 2 #12313

    Current Projects:
    Wildman Eagle Claw 4"......under construction
    Madcow 4" AGM 33-Pike DD.....under construction

    Build Pile
    HP: PML Ultimate Endeavour


    MP:

    LP: Quest Minotaur. Estes Venus Probe, Big Bertha, Death Star, Tie Fighter, Cosmic Cobra, Patriot

    Planned Projects
    Polecat Aerospace 10" Nike Smoke
    Modify my Public Enemy Rampage for Archetype DD
    PML Mini-BBX Terrier Booster

  9. #69
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    30th January 2009
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    indiana
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    Thanks for your taking time to answer questions and giving us a bit of inside info.
    Mr. Bob

  10. #70
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    17th May 2011
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    Lancaster, NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATGM View Post
    Also, just for giggles, how about a Green 38/1320
    Sure, why not. That is something I would need to ask Karl Baumann. Are you partial to the Mojave Green or the 1320 case? Both?
    I love Mojave Green. It photographs well (mach diamonds that CTI greens lack), and hits like a ton of bricks. The G76G is one of the best values for punch in all of rocketry, The I245G is a nice punch, the J500G was an awesome motor that I cert'd L2 on. Fired off a K805G and WOW that was a ride!

    I also love long motors. Stuff a bunch of AP in a small hole and lets talk fun. I've also flown a J510W in the 1320 case and that was an impressive ride. Loki recently expanded their 38/1200 (which I also own) lineup to include a K1127 blue (38mm K!!!!), J1026 cocktail, J300 Red, alongside the old J1000 white and J650 spitfire. I very much enjoy the J510W. I know the 38/1320 case is a super niche market in what already a niche market, But I would love to see some more offerings at the top end of 38mm AT motors.

    Quote Originally Posted by ATGM View Post
    Where did that Karl get off to? I'll relay your's and dizwolf's inquiries.
    Having the full rainbow in the 29 40-120 would be sweet. It's a great gateway drug of a motor.

    Quote Originally Posted by ATGM View Post
    I'm on it. (Karl is on it.) We are working on some more USPS shippable motors as well. 38mm to be specific.
    I can't love this enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by ATGM View Post
    To my knowledge this is the case. I know The H242 is now EZ and a couple of others.
    I don't think it was a problem really, but I also don't mind the switchover.
    dizwolf has been retired.

  11. #71
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    18th March 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcktnut View Post
    +1 In 21 years of assembling my Aerotech delays never had a blow by issue. Only issue ever was a super long delay just last year, but ending up with no damage to rocket. I like my hard case closures and assembly. There have been issues already with the EZ loads. Having both available would be nice.
    I actually finally saw the RMS- EZ a few weeks ago. I have assembled tons of AT motors in twenty years, and never had an issue with one. That being said, I think the EZ design might well have advantages, and might be able to be adapted to forward retention.
    Mark Koelsch
    Tripoli 6155 L3
    Owner of http://www.rocketryfiles.com/
    Editor of http://www.thrustcurve.org/
    Member of the Tripoli Motor Test Committee, and keeper of the motor file

  12. #72
    Join Date
    1st November 2013
    Posts
    998
    Seconding a few things people have already voiced:

    The current catalogue is a mess. I'd really appreciate updated motor listings, including thrust curves similar to the out-of-date print catalogue.

    I'd love a 29/40-120 red. A sparky in that case would also be excellent.

    Worried about phasing to RMS-EZ in 38mm... I just bought several 38mm cases, expecting to get a long service life out of them.

    I also agree that the default availability of motors should include the longest possible delay, rather than needing to buy a delay kit for the maximum. We can always drill shorter.

    Looks like other people already have opinions on the JetHitch covered.

    One issue I haven't seen raised is regarding the motor assembly instructions. As is, they're a hard to read grey-on-grey mess. Much better would be to show an exploded or schematic view of the motor assembly, rather than the current cutaway.
    Additionally, right now instructions will, say, refer to things like a 1/2th x 1/16th o-ring and a 1/2th x 3/32 o-ring and 1/4th x 1/16th o-ring... takes a lot of cross-referencing to keep them straight. Much easier would be if the phrasing was " 1/2 x 1/16th o-ring (skinny), 1/2 x 3/32nd o-ring (thick), 1/4th x 1/16th o-ring (small). Such phrasing would make questions like "is the thicker ring in the front or the back?" a lot easier to quickly answer.
    Flights 2015: Good: 2 - Dmg: 1 - Wreck: 0 - Lost: 0 ---> Complete flight logbook

    L1: Gnosis (scratch), H170M
    Member, Washington Aerospace Club

    "Design is an iterative process. The necessary number of iterations is one more than the number you have currently done. This is true at any point in time." -- Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design

  13. #73
    Join Date
    27th May 2014
    Posts
    114
    Glad to see a thread like this. I think though I am going to echo the statements of a few others here and say I would LOVE to see some love for the 18mm and 24mm reloads and single use in composite form. I know it is a slightly smaller market, but I like many others love to fly our rockets higher and/or faster. Also the choice of different propellants in the 18mm line would be nice.
    Member- CATO
    NAR# - 98349

  14. #74
    Join Date
    28th October 2009
    Location
    Aspen, CO - Daytona Beach, FL
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    817
    Pulling info off of Wildman's website, I've looked at the 38 and 54 MM motor sizes that I fly, and I've noticed that the prices for the DMS system are competitive with the RMS reload prices. $58 for an RMS J350W vs $60 for a DMS J270W. In 54 MM the DMS L1000W is actually $5 cheaper than a comparable RMS K1050W.

    With that in mind, wouldn't it make logistical and financial sense to slowly phase out RMS and sell one streamlined DMS product line instead of building a parallel product line like you are doing now? I know that would be a tough pill to swallow for myself and other people invested in RMS hardware, but if you could sell the consumer an equivalent motor in cost/performance that takes zero assembly time, zero hardware cleaning time, $0 invested in hardware, simpler motor choices/delay modification, near elimination of hardware manufacturing and inventory cost (for you and the vendors) etc...I think that would be a big advance in the right direction. As a consumer it is harder to get on board without knowing where the future lies.

    The reason I ask is because the cost of the jet hitch vs a comparable rocket motor drew a lot of attention. I'd imagine a lot of people are wondering if the jet hitch pricing was priced as a loss leader, a sign of things to come in the rocket motor lines, or whether the cost/time/effort of certifying reloads with NAR/TRA really adds that much cost to the end product.

    Thanks again for taking the time to respond to your consumers.
    Chris Dreher
    NAR #89512 L3
    Tripoli #14541 L3

  15. #75
    Join Date
    17th January 2011
    Location
    Spring Green WI
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    2,792
    Hi Charlie
    I would think AT would want to get the core of its business back on track before it brings out a new product which I feel may bring some sales at the start up and die off very fast. Also I still have 2- L DMS motors that still need to be replaced by AT. The DMS line is great for rocketry. Like I said why spend money for a new line when there are many things to get back on track first.

    Gary
    TFRLLC since 1991
    Last edited by crossfire; 17th May 2015 at 01:18 AM.
    TRA 2225
    TWA
    QCRS
    WOOSH

  16. #76
    Join Date
    18th January 2009
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    1,073
    I guess most didn't realize what a service Tom Rouse provided until he stopped making hardware. I remember a few old threads where he mentioned buying Al tubing and having production runs made in large volumes to keep costs down. It certainly takes a lot of capital investment to do that especially in the 3 and 4 inch sizes, I'm sure. His hardware was probably priced about 20% lower than AT hardware.

    I'm guessing CTI makes their motor hardware in house allowing them more control on costs; they probably sell it at low margin in order to move more propellant.

    For those that can't find a particular piece of AT hardware, Balsamaching still shows every Aerotech high power case, closure, etc. as in stock... for the time being anyway. http://balsamachining.com/#

  17. #77
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    16th May 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmacklin View Post
    Hi Charlie and thanks for shedding a bit of light in the midst of all the flames.

    As I understand things, RCS is the parent company of Aerotech and sells component parts and chemicals for those who wish to build their own motors. Information on this aspect of rocketry is widely available both on the internet and in book form. Anyone with an interest can with some effort find the information necessary to build their own rocket motors. From that point on, you as a legitimate producer of a legal product have absolutely zero control as to the end use.

    As a 70 year old veteran of the U.S. Army and former trustee of my local school board, I think it is absurd that I cannot purchase a fully assembled composite motor with 125 grams of slow burning propellant as defined by FAA Part 101 and fly it in an unmanned rocket without first paying a membership fee to a private organization in order to do so. This would be like telling a prospective camper that he must first become an Eagle Scout before he can buy a sleeping bag. I realize you have very little say so in such regulatory matters and you need not respond. That's just my two cents and I'm sure many here will think it ain't worth a plug nickel.

    Well thank you for your service. It's always cool to meet a fellow US Army vet. Yes the RCS chemical and component sales are pretty good especially in the winter years. With the internet, it is simply a recipe to follow for many. I am not familiar with the FAA Part 101 but I will look into it.

  18. #78
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    16th May 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvanler65 View Post
    Thanks Charlie,

    I appreciate you coming on here and listing to our concerns with jethitch and other issues. I know for me when the hobby struggled with the BATF after a few years I dropped out for a while but came back. I just don't want to see those issues coming back.
    I think you echo many people's sentiments.

  19. #79
    Join Date
    18th January 2009
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    Urff
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    As another veteran, welcome.

    My only request is please don't turn my Dr. Rocket's hardware into wind chimes!
    Cranky Kong, L2 Certified Rocket Monkey
    "But we were promised jet packs!"

    Total Impulse in 2018: 1,402.35 Ns (Equivalent to a 10% K motor.)
    Total Impulse since 2010: 15,274.46 Ns (Equivalent to a 49% N motor.)

  20. #80
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    16th May 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkH View Post
    I guess most didn't realize what a service Tom Rouse provided until he stopped making hardware. I remember a few old threads where he mentioned buying Al tubing and having production runs made in large volumes to keep costs down. It certainly takes a lot of capital investment to do that especially in the 3 and 4 inch sizes, I'm sure. His hardware was probably priced about 20% lower than AT hardware.

    I'm guessing CTI makes their motor hardware in house allowing them more control on costs; they probably sell it at low margin in order to move more propellant.

    For those that can't find a particular piece of AT hardware, Balsamaching still shows every Aerotech high power case, closure, etc. as in stock... for the time being anyway. http://balsamachining.com/#
    Yes he did keep a nice inventory and by the time we acquired the hardware from them, much of the most popular stuff was out. We do have a mill run now which is helping. The 98mm are proving to be a difficult task at this point. We have tried several machinists and we are close to finding one. And Bill at Advanced usually keeps a nice selection of our hardware.

  21. #81
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    16th May 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob jablonski View Post
    Thanks for your taking time to answer questions and giving us a bit of inside info.
    Hey Mr. Bob, nice to virtually meet you. Glad to do it.

  22. #82
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    8th January 2013
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    NE Pa
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    908
    I'm sorry, but it sounds like you are saying what we want to hear, and I'm not buying it, so it's time for me to move to a different vender. I sure hope this new product was worth it. And for future new product release, try doing a product research Q&A before its release.
    L1 Madcow Patriot
    L2 Loc/Percision Doorknob
    L3 T.B.D.
    NAR 89239

  23. #83
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    6th July 2013
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    Greater Chicago area
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kehoes23 View Post
    I'm sorry, but it sounds like you are saying what we want to hear, and I'm not buying it, so it's time for me to move to a different vender. I sure hope this new product was worth it. And for future new product release, try doing a product research Q&A before its release.
    I vote for clemency. If I "fired" every company who did things that angered me, I'd have quit using computers and flying on airlines years ago.
    M Rich

    Failure is just another word for 'data collection'

  24. #84
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    21st May 2014
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    Gardendale, AL
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    AeroTech Open Thread

    Hello Charlie. Thanks for taking time to hear the good and the bad.

    Jethitch has been beat to death here. I'll leave that alone. There are a few things I haven't seen fully addressed.

    First. EZ reloads. Why do we need them? I like my closures. My 38mm threaded closure supplies an easy access shock cord anchor and plugged forward closure. I like this. Nothing I have seen says the EZ reloads allow for this. I like building my motors. The tedium of this hobby is relaxing to me. You, yourself, stated its more costly to produce the EZ reloads. I say cut the cost and let us keep doing the work.

    Second. Hazmat motors. I don't claim to understand the logistics of motor manufacturing. What I do know is that what works for one can often work for another. I can buy non hazmat E and G motors. Why can't the F motors have the grain split for non hazmat shipping also? Just seems like it would help drive sales of this size motor. Hazmat is the single most cost prohibitive factor in motor purchases for me. There are many I'd love to fly but refuse to pay the hazmat fee to get them.

    Third. Motor cases. This is a severe issue. Especially right now with the peak of flight season coming. I understand manufacturing issues. I can live without a website update. I'd love it but can live without it. The LMS is a great alternative to the hazmat SU motors. I like where that is going. I'm not familiar with the DMS line, and not feeling reassured by what I've heard. I'd have no problem seeing all SU motors go to LMS. But I need cases for my RMS.

    Forth and finally. Colors. White Lightning and blue thunder are too light. Red and green are very popular to us I love watching them fly. I'd love to seen become just as popular and broadly made.

    Thanks,
    Kruegon

    P.S. As I am not yet informed, is AT doing full warranty of Rouse-Tech hardware in the event of an issue? Thanks.
    Last edited by Kruegon; 17th May 2015 at 09:24 AM.
    NAR #99604 L2
    L1 - 08/15/15 - Estes Partizon - Aerotech H128W - Birmingham, AL
    L2 - 02/04/17 - MadCow 4" PAC-3 - Aerotech J350W - Talladega, AL
    L3 - TBD

  25. #85
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    6th July 2013
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    Greater Chicago area
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruegon View Post
    Hello Charlie. Thanks for taking time to hear the good and the bad.


    Second. Hazmat motors. I don't claim to understand the logistics of motor manufacturing. What I do know is that what works for one can often work for another. I can buy non hazmat E and G motors. Why can't the F motors have the grain split for non hazmat shipping also? Just seems like it would help drive sales of this size motor. Hazmat is the single most cost prohibitive factor in motor purchases for me. There are many I'd love to fly but refuse to pay the hazmat fee to get them.
    .
    +1 to this. I'd like to see more LMS options; I'd enjoy assembling those a lot more than paying for hazmat.
    M Rich

    Failure is just another word for 'data collection'

  26. #86
    Join Date
    9th August 2013
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    I was going to stop buying AT products out of fear that the Jethitch would ruin the hobby, but since you showed up and have been proactive about addressing our concerns I have decided to continue to support you products.
    How about a 24mm Mach capable SU Motor? You guys used to produce an F72 and a G55 that were 24mm SU, so it can be done.
    I'm also sad that I missed out on the days of the 13mm SU composite motors.
    Oh, and it would be sweet to be able to get the Aerotech Hat that is in the picture, even though I'll continue to wear my "Not as Pictured" version to continue to promote your business.

    Lastly, welcome to the forum.
    Last edited by TopRamen; 17th May 2015 at 03:12 PM.
    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

  27. #87
    Join Date
    25th January 2009
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    Glennville, GA
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    EZ reloads: I would recommend a means to use a tapped forward closure.
    -----------------------
    Chuck Haislip
    NAR/Tripoli Level 3
    Formerly a Prefect of ICBM - TRA #60

    Level 1 - LOC Minie Magg; Level 2 - PR Broken Arrow;
    Level 3 - 10 inch Nike Smoke
    2015 Ns for Year: 1315 Newtons
    My rockets usually fly naked. If they survive, they earn their paint.

    Come fly with ROSCo or ICBM in Camden SC => http://rocketrysouthcarolina.org

  28. #88
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    30th June 2013
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    Morris Plains NJ, near Morristown
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwbullet View Post
    EZ reloads: I would recommend a means to use a tapped forward closure.
    Something like this?

    https://www.siriusrocketry.biz/ishop...nchor-564.html
    Nate Y, Radical Rocketeers NJ Jr. L1, KD2IKO, NAR:96432 Tripoli: 15627
    Impulse flown in 2013: about 2100 Ns
    In 2014 :4587Ns
    In 2015: 8631.23 Ns
    So far in 2016: 664.4 Ns, This is not a good trend...


  29. #89
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    26th October 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by nute View Post

    Those work only with 1 or more spacers.
    _______________________
    Jeff - NAR #76531 -L2

  30. #90
    Join Date
    14th January 2013
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    Menifee, California
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    861
    I'm sorry Jethitch was "released ", I am very impressed They were willing to re-think that. This is a true sign of a good company that made a mistake. Welcome and thank you for being here.

    Lance
    NAR # 95771
    L1 2/9/13
    ROC Club Member

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