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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by rharshberger View Post
    My concern about the Jet Hitch isn't so much the vehicle but what else will people strap it onto, bicycles, skateboards, roller skates etc, the K motors 100lbs of thrust or whatever it is (I don't remember), on one of those items would be interesting to say the very least. If Aerotech is targeting the business sector for pyrotechnics, exhibitions then a method of controlling the purchase of these "motors" needs to be in place. Also as a number of people have pointed out, without modifying the case diameter so it doesn't fit in standard rockets there's absolutely no reason to buy your reloads at a far higher cost when (unless flying NAR/TRA events) you can fly a K for $69. As for them not having thrust rings or delays, so what the thrust rings an easy fix, and the delay isn't necessary with electronics.

    Our biggest concern is that irresponsible individuals will buy these and since they ARE rocket motors and do things that give this hobby a bad name, undoing all the things we have fought for years to protect.

    Rich Harshberger

    Edit: As to the other issues such as the website, and the lack of a comprehensive "motor matrix" (Karl Baumanns term), I sent an email earlier this week about all that, and Karl was gracious enough to return an email pretty quickly.
    without modifying the case diameter so it doesn't fit in standard rockets there's absolutely no reason to buy your reloads at a far higher cost when (unless flying NAR/TRA events) you can fly a K for $69. As for them not having thrust rings or delays, so what the thrust rings an easy fix, and the delay isn't necessary with electronics.
    This has been discussed as well. Certainly the intent is not to harm the hobby. I think a point that is getting lost in this is that we, AeroTech, probably have the most to lose if something were to happen to the hobby. We obviously do not want that. We have thought about making various changes to the size, language and information used on the JetHitch itself to better increase safety. If a rocketeer is circumventing the process established by TRA/NAR I would say that is more of a threat.

    I have responded to a few other posts about this, let me know if there are any other issues I have overlooked. Thanks for participating, we appreciate it.


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rharshberger View Post
    Big question I'm surprised nobody has asked yet....when can we expect a steady supply of all lengths of Q2G2 starters?
    I know...another frustrating vendor issue. I cannot give a specific timeframe but I am hoping to see them in the next 60 days or so, possibly sooner. This is one of those products that was much more successful than we anticipated and moving forward we will order accordingly.


  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATGM View Post
    Hi Everyone,
    My name is Charlie Savoie and I am the General Manager at RCS/AeroTech/Quest. I am here today to comment on the JetHitch product as well as to gather as much information as possible in order to better our company. I have been lurking on this site for the better part of a year hoping to glean any insight into what is a very niche market. Though it has helped, direct communication with the end-consumer is something I have wanted to take part in for a while. I value all opinions, favorable or otherwise. We cannot improve if we do not first acknowledge that we can be better.

    A couple of notes before we start:
    - I do not know everything about the hobby
    - My strengths are currently geared towards the business side and not the science side of the hobby
    - I will be professional, please return the respect

    With that, I await your inquiries.
    Welcome to the forum and thank you very much for taking the time to come here and field questions. You're not the first vendor to point out the fact that the total TRF community is a very small percentage of a niche hobby market and I think we'd all do well to remember that. I'd just like to wish you good luck the getting hardware reset and updated catalog/web presence projects going and getting things back to profitability in general. My personal request would be for more DMS flavors in the H to J impulse ranges. Thanks again.

    Almost forgot... JETHITCH... meh, tempest in a teapot.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaBrewer View Post
    And a Red 29/40-120?
    I'd like to see the g71 red return, and a new non hazmat blue in that case.
    dizwolf has been retired.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATGM View Post
    Our customers all have their preferred lines or motors. It is extremely challenging to meet everyone's individual demands but we still try to. In our view, many of the flyers wanted something easier (EZ) so we are converting the 38mm RMS line to EZs. It isn't just for that purpose though. We are working on something that will better explain it but I am sworn to secrecy at this particular time.
    Is this to say the entire 38mm RMS is to become RMS-EZ only? I know for me thats a major bummer if thats the situation.

  6. #36
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    Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. Let me share my own thoughts about my questions and your answers.

    Quote Originally Posted by ATGM View Post
    Even if used exactly according to the instructions on the Jethitch site, do you see any safety issues with the Jethitch product?
    Unfortunately, yes. It has been my experience thus far that most instructions are ignored. I do not think the product is dangerous when used as instructed though. The people that may abuse it are what I would consider the danger. Much like guns.
    I see safety problems even if the product is used exactly as instructed. At least from my understanding of the instructions that I saw on the JetHitch site that has now been taken down, the ignition system is not a "launch controller" of any kind. There are no safety interlocks. Once you plug it in, off it goes. Someone is going to forget about unplugging it, and as soon as they hook up those leads, they are going to burn their face off. That's an issue you could solve with a better controller.

    I also don't think the clearance distances are adequate in your instructions. And that might be something you could solve with better instructions.

    So you might be able to clear up a few safety issues for people who want to use the product responsibly. But I absolutely agree that people who might abuse the product are the most likely danger, and that you can't control. I agree it is much like guns. The difference between your industry and the gun industry is that the gun industry has constitutional protection and a powerful political organization looking out for its business interests and defending it against government regulation. You don't have that. You are not going to be able to put a product on the market with a huge potential for dangerous misuse and then say, "It's the responsibility of the user to use it responsibly" the way the gun industry can.

    Quote Originally Posted by ATGM View Post
    Do you feel like the typical 18-year-old who might be attracted to mounting rocket motors to the bumper of their vehicle is likely to be responsible enough or experienced enough to take proper safety precautions with such a product?
    The age limit is a variable out of our control. These are not for use on streets since they are obviously not street legal. This decision ultimately lies with the individual. Besides, I have seen individuals much older than 18 do completely idiotic things with rocket motors. I believe a solution to lie somewhere in your next point:
    I guess my point was more that the age limit is the ONLY limit you are putting on the purchase of the motors. I'm not advocating for a higher age limit. I think there should be some other kind of restriction beyond age that would require demonstration of understanding of the safety issues before a person could purchase the motors.

    You are sending a mixed message if you are saying that these JetHitch motors are intended for exhibitions similar to monster truck shows, but you are going to sell them to anyone over 18 who wants one. I see your primary market NOT being monster truck enthusiasts who are probably reasonably smart and are running an entertainment business and have an interest in not blowing up their cars, themselves, or their paying audience. You are more likely to end up selling them to young men interested in impressing each other at "sideshow" events and illegal drag races, burning up neighborhoods and spectators. That's how I see it working out.

    If you want to sell them for use in shows like monster truck demonstrations, why not sell them through whatever channels have already been set up for supplying that industry with pyrotechnic material? I don't know what that would be, but surely when a monster truck show currently uses pyrotechnics, they have a licensed pyrotechnician handle it. I don't see any issue with you selling your current L2 rocket motors to licensed pryos who have L2 certs for use as allowed by law, and if that means it is safe and legal for them to mount them on trucks for shows, then fine. You don't need a special product line to market your motors for that use. It seems like the purpose of the special product line is to be able to market the motors to people who do not have those licenses and certifications.

    Quote Originally Posted by ATGM View Post
    What about the current HPR certification process for model rocketry?
    I like it the way it is, I have no issue with it. How it affects our business is not something I have worried about too much because, again, it is a variable that we cannot control. The reasons these do not require certification is because they are not designed for flight.
    I think the current HPR certification process and the policy of not selling motors to people who do not have adequate certification actually HELPS your business. It helps to limit the likelihood that unqualified people will use your products and cause high-profile accidents and call unwanted attention and regulation to your business. Responsible use helps your business.

    Quote Originally Posted by ATGM View Post
    Do you think that rocketeers who have been unable or unwilling to go through the Level 2 HPR certification process might use Jethitch as a way to obtain Level 2 class rocket motors that they otherwise could not obtain through rocketry vendors?
    Maybe a few but the JetHitch is designed to be distinguishable. As long as the RCO checks the aft of the rocket to check if it is black epoxy or maroon. I have faith in my fellow honest, law-abiding rocketeers.
    I'm thinking in terms of people who do NOT attend club launches and do NOT submit their rocket to an RSO. I think club flyers are the ones likely to be following the rules. There are people who do not like clubs or rules, and those are the people I'm thinking might want to make a rocket with a J or K Jethitch motor and launch it in an unsafe way. I'm not worried about someone trying to sneak one past an RSO at a launch. I'm worried about someone lighting one off at the cabin after a few beers.

    Quote Originally Posted by ATGM View Post
    Could that have any impacts on the hobby or your business?
    I suppose it could but I feel that the rocketry community does a good job of policing our own (see:JetHitch)
    The issue I see is that you are making it harder to be self-policing. The sale of these JetHitch motors to anyone over 18 circumvents the self-policing mechanisms and makes it easer for someone to pursue high-power rocketry outside of the self-policing rocketry community.

    Quote Originally Posted by ATGM View Post
    Good questions, I hope this satisfies them.
    It's a step in the right direction. Thanks!
    Last edited by ThirstyBarbarian; 16th May 2015 at 09:32 PM. Reason: formatting

  7. #37
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    Hello, Charlie!

    Long time no hear.

    Congratulations on the new job/title.

    The one thing I would like to know is when will AeroTech bring out some new kits?
    I have built/flown all of the current AeroTech kit line.
    A few new kits would refresh the product line.

    Thanks for your time.
    Bob

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by rharshberger View Post
    Is this to say the entire 38mm RMS is to become RMS-EZ only? I know for me thats a major bummer if thats the situation.

    +1 In 21 years of assembling my Aerotech delays never had a blow by issue. Only issue ever was a super long delay just last year, but ending up with no damage to rocket. I like my hard case closures and assembly. There have been issues already with the EZ loads. Having both available would be nice.
    _______________________
    Jeff - NAR #76531 -L2

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by DizWolf View Post
    The product line seems a bit scattered currently. Are there plans to expand DMS to replace all single use motors, and RMS EZ throughout at least 38mm?

    Also, just for giggles, how about a Green 38/1320
    The product line seems a bit scattered currently. Are there plans to expand DMS to replace all single use motors
    It may seem scattered in part because it is not completed yet. The goal is to offer a variety of different motors that our customers want/need/dream of. DMS are not replacing any RMS loads.

    Also, just for giggles, how about a Green 38/1320
    Sure, why not. That is something I would need to ask Karl Baumann. Are you partial to the Mojave Green or the 1320 case? Both?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaBrewer View Post
    And a Red 29/40-120?
    Where did that Karl get off to? I'll relay your's and dizwolf's inquiries.

  11. #41
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    Hi Charlie and thanks for shedding a bit of light in the midst of all the flames.

    As I understand things, RCS is the parent company of Aerotech and sells component parts and chemicals for those who wish to build their own motors. Information on this aspect of rocketry is widely available both on the internet and in book form. Anyone with an interest can with some effort find the information necessary to build their own rocket motors. From that point on, you as a legitimate producer of a legal product have absolutely zero control as to the end use.

    As a 70 year old veteran of the U.S. Army and former trustee of my local school board, I think it is absurd that I cannot purchase a fully assembled composite motor with 125 grams of slow burning propellant as defined by FAA Part 101 and fly it in an unmanned rocket without first paying a membership fee to a private organization in order to do so. This would be like telling a prospective camper that he must first become an Eagle Scout before he can buy a sleeping bag. I realize you have very little say so in such regulatory matters and you need not respond. That's just my two cents and I'm sure many here will think it ain't worth a plug nickel.

    Last edited by tmacklin; 16th May 2015 at 09:48 PM.
    http://www.macklinmissileworks.com/

    Making Guillotines Great Again

  12. #42
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    Thanks Charlie for working with us, It's a huge step in the right direction. I think there is a lot of good discussion going on here, and it's really great to see, IMO.

    If we're talking about new motors, I'd also love to see some new green motors. it's a really cool looking propellant, and the kick off the pad is awesome. I'd also love to see a couple "extreme" motors in the 29 size. For instance, how about some super fast burns? Warp 9 in the 29/360 case? yes please Or what about a 29/360 smokey or sparky? The red and white are both great choices, but a bit more in that size would be nice. I'd also like to see the 29/40-120 red motor- I got a chance to fly a G71R once, and it's still one of my all time favorite launches Again, thanks for joining us here, and welcome!

    Nate
    Nate Y, Radical Rocketeers NJ Jr. L1, KD2IKO, NAR:96432 Tripoli: 15627
    Impulse flown in 2013: about 2100 Ns
    In 2014 :4587Ns
    In 2015: 8631.23 Ns
    So far in 2016: 664.4 Ns, This is not a good trend...


  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by samb View Post
    Welcome to the forum and thank you very much for taking the time to come here and field questions. You're not the first vendor to point out the fact that the total TRF community is a very small percentage of a niche hobby market and I think we'd all do well to remember that. I'd just like to wish you good luck the getting hardware reset and updated catalog/web presence projects going and getting things back to profitability in general. My personal request would be for more DMS flavors in the H to J impulse ranges. Thanks again.

    Almost forgot... JETHITCH... meh, tempest in a teapot.

    I appreciate the welcome and good wishes, thank you. We are expecting the last 2 products for the current DMS line to be certified shortly: a 38mm 2 grain H100 as well as a 54mm 2 grain J250. More info here:

    http://aerotech-rocketry.com/uploads...15%20Small.pdf


    Thanks for your input.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATGM View Post
    This complaint is 100% accurate. We are working on a matrix right now but that is a small step in my opinion. A larger concern of mine are the websites. It is a large project to be sure but one that we, as an industry leader, need to correct. In fact, here is the list of my current priorities:
    -catalog
    -website(s)
    -hardware

    If I had to prioritize them they would be 1a, 1b and 1c. Excellent point. I would say to expect the improved websites by mid-late June.
    Quote Originally Posted by ATGM View Post
    ..... In the end, we are always looking for ways to deploy our core competency (propellant) into new markets. Simply stated, more research needs to be conducted before moving forward.
    Quote Originally Posted by DizWolf View Post
    The product line seems a bit scattered currently. Are there plans to expand DMS to replace all single use motors, and RMS EZ throughout at least 38mm?
    I think these three posts kind of sums up what you are struggling with.

    As for the catalog and website, I don't see as there is any difference between the two. I don't expect you will ever print a catalog like you did back in 2010 or whenever the last one was printed. Today I can use my cell phone to shop for anything. I can use it to pay the vendors for anything I buy at the field via PayPal and call up all the information I need about any product I am looking at. Your catalog needs to be your website and it needs to be mobile device friendly and the information on all your products needs to be easy to find and easy to use.

    Hardware is a big issue I hope you are solving. I have several EZ reloads in my box I can't fly because I don't have the EZ forward closure and can't get one. Hardware is required to expand your sales of propellant. If you can't get new hardware out there, you don't get new customers. I realize the price point is hurting hardware sales compared to Cesseroni, but price point is also a big advantage on reload sales in the smaller sizes. With that said, I would suggest an expansion of the available reload propellant types for those smaller sizes where you have a price point advantage.

    I understand about deploying your "core competency (propellant) into new markets." I wouldn't expect anything else. The concern the group here has is that the JetHitch product will result in government regulation that will hurt the rocketry market. I would really recommend looking at that very closely. You wouldn't want to end up severely reducing both markets by jumping into one without sufficient safeguards. Most people describe rocketry as a "self governing" hobby because we require the certification levels to buy and use various levels of motors. That really isn't true, it is only self governed if the businesses that sell the motors restrict those sales to certified buyers even if they have no legal obligation to do so. Without that, the TRA and NAR certification levels mean nothing. I think that is the basis of the pushback from the rocketry folk about the JetHitch line. They see you bypassing that "self governing" that has worked so well for us and see that as a threat to the hobby.

    There doesn't seem to be a clear and concise direction the company is moving in. There are a lot of new and nice products coming out, but they don't seem to be coordinated and marketed very well. They get announced once on Facebook and talked about on TRF and that seems to be about it. Aerotech seems to be moving away from reloads and to single use motors while at the same time trying to get more hardware out there so the reloads can sell more, but then changing the hardware required for some of the reloads so people have to make another choice on what hardware to buy. Where are you going and what's the plan?

    In my personal situation, I bought Aerotech hardware back in the mid 2000 and only fly Aerotech for 24mm, 38mm, and 54mm up to the 54/1706 case. I bought the Pro54 6GXL case because the price points on the propellant was about the same, and the largest Ns 54mm motor was available for that case. I recently got my Level 3 cert and bought Loki 76/6000 hardware because it is a snapring case and EX friendly. RCS sells EX supplies to make it easy to make your own EX loads for Aerotech cases. Is RCS going to expand their offerings for EX supplies to market to all EX users? Currently almost all of the EX users I know of use snapring cases. Even if RCS doesn't expand the liner/casting tube line to market to the standard EX snapring cases, a better price point on quality chemicals could go a long ways in expanding sales.

    Charlie, thanks for stopping buy and listening to us.

    Jeff Boldig
    Handeman

    TRA #09903 L3 3/29/2015

    "If you don't use your head, you have to use your feet!" my Dad

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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by DizWolf View Post
    I'd like to see the g71 red return, and a new non hazmat blue in that case.
    I'm on it. (Karl is on it.) We are working on some more USPS shippable motors as well. 38mm to be specific.

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by rharshberger View Post
    Is this to say the entire 38mm RMS is to become RMS-EZ only? I know for me thats a major bummer if thats the situation.
    To my knowledge this is the case. I know The H242 is now EZ and a couple of others.

  17. #47
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    Good information, thank you. Many points that deserve consideration.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThirstyBarbarian View Post
    Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. Let me share my own thoughts about my questions and your answers.

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATGM View Post
    To my knowledge this is the case. I know The H242 is now EZ and a couple of others.
    That's too bad, if I had known this about 2 months ago I would not have invested in AT 38mm hardware. So far the only reload I have bought was my L1 cert H123W which was an awesome flight..for a pink Crayon

  19. #49
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    LVL 3 Cert special would be great .. buy load matching hardware free
    L2

    2018 Plan on burning lvl 3 NS :)

  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Initiator001 View Post
    Hello, Charlie!

    Long time no hear.

    Congratulations on the new job/title.

    The one thing I would like to know is when will AeroTech bring out some new kits?
    I have built/flown all of the current AeroTech kit line.
    A few new kits would refresh the product line.

    Thanks for your time.
    Hey Bob,

    Thanks man, good to hear from you. Without giving to much away we do have a 38mm kit in the works. We brought it (along with the first rain in months) to Dairy Aire but...and I have been exploring some upscaling ideas. I believe there may be a market for those, but not sure.

    I have built/flown all of the current AeroTech kit line.

    Here is my surprise face.

  21. #51
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    Welcome ATGM (aka Charlie).

    First of all, thank you for coming to the forum to answer questions directly and for that you are to be commended. Second, I am an AeroTech fanboy and appreciate all that Gary and his team have done for the hobby.

    That said, when I saw the JetHitch line of products, I was a bit concerned. I was trying to square how NFPA was going to look at these and had questions regarding safety and possible misuse. But being well over age 30, I know that often when things are given a bit of time things will tend to sort themselves out. Speaking for myself, I feel a bit relieved about the situation and the responsiveness to AeroTech.

    BTW, I'm the guy that was attempting to make a comprehensive AeroTech motor list found in another thread. I have a suggestion or two regarding your future catalogs and the presentation of information. If you are interested, please PM me and I can briefly outline it for you.

    Greg

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handeman View Post
    I think these three posts kind of sums up what you are struggling with.

    As for the catalog and website, I don't see as there is any difference between the two. I don't expect you will ever print a catalog like you did back in 2010 or whenever the last one was printed. Today I can use my cell phone to shop for anything. I can use it to pay the vendors for anything I buy at the field via PayPal and call up all the information I need about any product I am looking at. Your catalog needs to be your website and it needs to be mobile device friendly and the information on all your products needs to be easy to find and easy to use.

    Hardware is a big issue I hope you are solving. I have several EZ reloads in my box I can't fly because I don't have the EZ forward closure and can't get one. Hardware is required to expand your sales of propellant. If you can't get new hardware out there, you don't get new customers. I realize the price point is hurting hardware sales compared to Cesseroni, but price point is also a big advantage on reload sales in the smaller sizes. With that said, I would suggest an expansion of the available reload propellant types for those smaller sizes where you have a price point advantage.

    I understand about deploying your "core competency (propellant) into new markets." I wouldn't expect anything else. The concern the group here has is that the JetHitch product will result in government regulation that will hurt the rocketry market. I would really recommend looking at that very closely. You wouldn't want to end up severely reducing both markets by jumping into one without sufficient safeguards. Most people describe rocketry as a "self governing" hobby because we require the certification levels to buy and use various levels of motors. That really isn't true, it is only self governed if the businesses that sell the motors restrict those sales to certified buyers even if they have no legal obligation to do so. Without that, the TRA and NAR certification levels mean nothing. I think that is the basis of the pushback from the rocketry folk about the JetHitch line. They see you bypassing that "self governing" that has worked so well for us and see that as a threat to the hobby.

    There doesn't seem to be a clear and concise direction the company is moving in. There are a lot of new and nice products coming out, but they don't seem to be coordinated and marketed very well. They get announced once on Facebook and talked about on TRF and that seems to be about it. Aerotech seems to be moving away from reloads and to single use motors while at the same time trying to get more hardware out there so the reloads can sell more, but then changing the hardware required for some of the reloads so people have to make another choice on what hardware to buy. Where are you going and what's the plan?

    In my personal situation, I bought Aerotech hardware back in the mid 2000 and only fly Aerotech for 24mm, 38mm, and 54mm up to the 54/1706 case. I bought the Pro54 6GXL case because the price points on the propellant was about the same, and the largest Ns 54mm motor was available for that case. I recently got my Level 3 cert and bought Loki 76/6000 hardware because it is a snapring case and EX friendly. RCS sells EX supplies to make it easy to make your own EX loads for Aerotech cases. Is RCS going to expand their offerings for EX supplies to market to all EX users? Currently almost all of the EX users I know of use snapring cases. Even if RCS doesn't expand the liner/casting tube line to market to the standard EX snapring cases, a better price point on quality chemicals could go a long ways in expanding sales.

    Charlie, thanks for stopping buy and listening to us.

    Jeff Boldig
    Hi Jeff,

    Website
    - Yes, this is the direction we are going.

    Hardware- Agreed. Some improvements are already visible which is encouraging.

    JetHitch - Shelved.

    There doesn't seem to be a clear and concise direction the company is moving in.
    Fundamentally speaking I think this thread is a hint of what we have planned. Interaction and communication at the consumer level is a basic fundamental of marketing. We are also working with dealers who are a great source of market information.

    There are a lot of new and nice products coming out, but they don't seem to be coordinated and marketed very well. They get announced once on Facebook and talked about on TRF and that seems to be about it.
    This ties into what I would describe as the overall web presence. Improvements are coming.


    Aerotech seems to be moving away from reloads and to single use motors
    It is actually the opposite. We are expanding our product lines in both directions. We are offering more reloads and more DMS. Some popular loads get a DMS and a reload, i.e the H550ST, and soon the J250W.


    but then changing the hardware required for some of the reloads so people have to make another choice on what hardware to buy.
    Besides a new 38 closure for the EZs there have been no other changes that I am aware of. Good points, thanks Jeff.

  23. #53
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    Breaktime

    Be back to answer more questions in a bit. Also, if you respond with a product request please know that even if I didn't respond that I did note it.

  24. #54
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    One other issue of EXTREME importance!

    You have to do something about the ridiculous DMS ad on the back of Sport Rocketry! It is AWEFUL!

    Not to be to snarky, but it looks like no one in the picture even planned on being in a photo that day. My impression is someone walked into the lunch room and said, "Everyone grab a motor and meet me in the parking lot." Then they snapped one pic on the cell phone camera and texted it to the designer! Everyone looks cold and uncomfortable! People are squinting! Someone is holding a wind-chime! What is that about? It looks like the message is that DMS means you can turn your expensive motor hardware you just bought into a wind-chime! That's not a good message to send to customers. Someone told me it is actually an inside joke about another vendor offering to trade cases, and that vendor keeps a wind-chime made of cases that have been turned in. But an inside joke that is open to misinterpretation is not a good basis for an ad.

    You're paying for a prominent ad space in the magazine. Get a professional ad to match.

    This should be item 1d on the list.

  25. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    As someone new to composite motors, I'd say hardware availability is item #1 for me. With so few brick and mortar stores carrying your product, the ability to order up to G and even small high power reloads without dropping an extra $30 on hazmat fees is huge. But I can't, because I'm having a hell of a time getting the hardware in hand. You're concerned about cash flow, but here I am yelling "shut up and take my money" while you're out of the one thing I need to get started.

    I dont mind mind the catalog as much, but only because there are places like this that have the info if you know where to look. It's probably a hindrance to getting new customers though.

    I will say you ought to streamline, or at least better explain, your product offerings. High power vs hobby line, rms vs rms ez, single use,DMS, LMS - just a huge variety of things that are almost certainly increasing your overhead without an obvious advantage to the consumer.

    My my pipe dream would be to see Aerotech take a page from the Estes playbook and offer up small, low cost, easy build LPR kits and starter sets - but with composite motors! Heck with the way Estes prices are going you could probably even be cost competitive. I'd love to be able to walk into Hobby Lobby or some other big box craft store and snag some 18 or 24mm single use motors, but right now there's no Aerotech branded entry level product that would drive that interest. Who can find Aerotech without going off and looking for them? I think Aerotech has the ability to beat it's competitors on price and visibility, especially in the low and mid power market - but it doesn't seem like you're doing much to exploit that. That's the gateway drug!
    Thank you Oberon, with the acquisition of Quest these are some of the goals we have in mind.

  26. #56
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    16th May 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by grouch View Post
    Charlie,
    As other have said, thanks for participating on the forum. I want to say something that may have gone over looked in market research. I love assembling forward closures! As Nate properly pointed out, plenty of people like actually building motors. I began the hobby with CTI 29mm's then their 38's. I never considered AT motors mostly because they seemed a little complicated and had a higher initial investment. All that changed last year, for some reason I bought a Rouse Tech 29-120 case. I flew a G79W and fell in love. I enjoyed building the delay chain and the color of flame and smoke left me wanting more. Over the winter I went on a buying spree. 100, 120, 180 and 240 cases in 29mm and 120, 240 and 360 in 38mm. I really enjoy your products but I am more that a little concerned you will switch everything over to the EZ system and change the motors I love. Or worse, make my expensive hardware obsolete. I understand part of the decision may to appeal to the CTI crowd and another may be to reduce the failure rate by controlling the delay train from the factory but it's a problem that doesn't need to be fixed. While I am not a trained business man, I do know that too many different products leads to trouble identifying your brand. Your brand should remain with your core competencies, kick ass motors and kick ass hardware. That said, I am not opposed to the DMS line but please don't put them above your RMS plus loads.

    BTW, if you want to tweak your RMS line please sell the loads with the longest delay that will fit. We can always drill them down but can't ever add more.

    Thanks for listening and hopefully not changing your motors..well except for the longer delays of course. Did I mention longer delays???
    Excellent intel, much appreciated. And something something delays?

  27. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by rharshberger View Post
    Definitely like the 18mm and 24mm stuff, some here have even suggested some 13mm reloadables, but all thats definitley a business decision juggling act.

    I like the fact AT uses quality ALL metal hardware. I don't understand the reasoning for the RMS-EZ when you can just have regular reloads for less, both for ATs production cost and for us as consumers.

    I am still waiting to get my hands on a 18mm case, or two, or three. I think it would be neat to see some C impluse reloads in the 18mm line. Estes motors are definitely getting more expensive for what you get.
    Good to know, thanks. I haven't heard of 13mm reloads, interesting.

  28. #58
    Join Date
    20th February 2014
    Location
    Salt Lake City, Utah
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATGM View Post
    I'm on it. (Karl is on it.) We are working on some more USPS shippable motors as well. 38mm to be specific.
    I think USPS shippable 38mm motors sound great!

    And again, thanks for all the info. Greatly appreciated. Any chance you'll be at Hellfire XX and/or NARAM?
    Bill

    NAR #97213, L2
    Just a member of UROC
    Former member of NARHAMS and NOVAAR

  29. #59
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    16th May 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by terryg View Post
    One thing that has always been an issue is that the newly (relatively) released propellants are available in only a limited number of case sizes. For example the great "Propellant X" is only available in one case size and there are a number of cases with only white lightning reloads available for them. I have little interest in the single use motors.
    I'll ask Karl about that. I know a lot of people like the K1103X.

  30. #60
    Join Date
    6th December 2013
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    TX
    Posts
    2,257
    Great to have you here Charlie! And, thank you for the insight into all things Aerotech. Can hardly wait to see the new products!


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