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  1. #1801
    Join Date
    16th May 2015
    Location
    Cedar City
    Posts
    537
    Quote Originally Posted by djs View Post
    Charlie- any ETA on the 29/40-120 red load?
    To be honest with you, NAR Standard and Testing is holding up all hobby motor testing. I will post the details later on for those of you who have been waiting for new hobby motors.

    Charles Savoie
    General Manager
    RCS RMC, Inc.

    NEXT LAUNCH: 2018




  2. #1802
    Join Date
    16th May 2015
    Location
    Cedar City
    Posts
    537
    Quote Originally Posted by Screaminhelo View Post
    This may be a back burner project but is there any word on new Quest motors (something similar to Klima)? I seem to recall a hint on The Rocketry Show but all has been quiet since then
    We have made a lot of progress on the Quest motors and have settled on a mold. The A and B motors will likely be available first and depending on when/how long NAR takes to test them may be available in the next 60-90 days.

    Charles Savoie
    General Manager
    RCS RMC, Inc.

    NEXT LAUNCH: 2018




  3. #1803
    Join Date
    16th May 2015
    Location
    Cedar City
    Posts
    537
    Quote Originally Posted by samb View Post
    One thing this thread has taught me is patience. I love having this back channel to a leader in our little hobby. As far as new products go, I'll get excited when they show up for sale at my favorite motor vendor (or anywhere).
    This is a pretty good perspective to have. We are working on getting new items certified and available to purchase but unfortunately we can only control so much of the process.
    Charles Savoie
    General Manager
    RCS RMC, Inc.

    NEXT LAUNCH: 2018




  4. #1804
    Join Date
    16th May 2015
    Location
    Cedar City
    Posts
    537
    Quote Originally Posted by ActingLikeAKid View Post
    ...Wait, is this even true with DMS motors? Obviously with RMS motors, there are a lot more not-okay places for grains to go. But with a DMS motor...you pour it in the hole or out of the hole, it's not like it could slip past an O-ring or something....

    Or not. I could be wrong. This is literally the first DMS motor I've ever used, so please correct me if I am wrong.
    I have seen customers pour out the powder for various reasons and they each worked okay afterwards. The powder has no where to go except out the forward end.
    Charles Savoie
    General Manager
    RCS RMC, Inc.

    NEXT LAUNCH: 2018




  5. #1805
    Join Date
    16th May 2015
    Location
    Cedar City
    Posts
    537
    Quote Originally Posted by Kruegon View Post
    Weren't we suppose to hearing about the new 24/60 loads around now? Or is that after a later event? I thought it was going to be demo'd at NSL.
    Yes, NAR has had them for testing since the end of March and we have just been informed that they have not tested them because of a 'remodeling' project. This is the same excuse we were given last year so I will leave it at that. AT this point in time the ball is in the court of the NAR S&T.
    Charles Savoie
    General Manager
    RCS RMC, Inc.

    NEXT LAUNCH: 2018




  6. #1806
    Join Date
    16th May 2015
    Location
    Cedar City
    Posts
    537
    Quote Originally Posted by Initiator001 View Post
    The 24/60 loads were on display along with the Economax F67 motors at the NSL.

    The NAR S&T had not certified the motors yet so they could not be flown.
    This is correct. Tripoli allows for manufacturer's demo as well as EX which allows us to display them before they are certified. NAR launches do not offer the same so because they were not certified we couldn't fly them. Quite unfortunate as we were counting on them being certified in time for NSL.
    Charles Savoie
    General Manager
    RCS RMC, Inc.

    NEXT LAUNCH: 2018




  7. #1807
    Join Date
    16th May 2015
    Location
    Cedar City
    Posts
    537
    Quote Originally Posted by viciouspeanut View Post
    Can anyone shed some light on what the deal is with the 29/40-120 cases? Are they that popular where they aren't ever in stock anymore or did I miss something in the last 9 years about them?
    These should be available in the next 2-3 weeks. The demand for them has gone up significantly so we are planning accordingly.
    Charles Savoie
    General Manager
    RCS RMC, Inc.

    NEXT LAUNCH: 2018




  8. #1808
    Join Date
    15th May 2016
    Posts
    2,098
    Quote Originally Posted by ATGM View Post
    This is correct. Tripoli allows for manufacturer's demo as well as EX which allows us to display them before they are certified. NAR launches do not offer the same so because they were not certified we couldn't fly them. Quite unfortunate as we were counting on them being certified in time for NSL.
    is submitting them to Tripoli an option?
    David McCann
    Dave's Rockets | My Flights
    URRG |URRF 4| Level 2 | TRA# 14210

  9. #1809
    Join Date
    25th January 2009
    Location
    Glennville, GA
    Posts
    17,897
    Have you thought about a different color case?
    -----------------------
    Chuck Haislip
    NAR/Tripoli Level 3
    Formerly a Prefect of ICBM - TRA #60

    Level 1 - LOC Minie Magg; Level 2 - PR Broken Arrow;
    Level 3 - 10 inch Nike Smoke
    2015 Ns for Year: 1315 Newtons
    My rockets usually fly naked. If they survive, they earn their paint.

    Come fly with ROSCo or ICBM in Camden SC => http://rocketrysouthcarolina.org

  10. #1810
    Join Date
    19th January 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    2,618
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
    is submitting them to Tripoli an option?
    The motors could be tested and approved by Tripoli.

    However...

    Such motors could not be used in NAR competition.
    Don't want to loose any possible sales.
    Bob

  11. #1811
    Join Date
    15th May 2016
    Posts
    2,098
    One might say they already lost a summer of sales...
    David McCann
    Dave's Rockets | My Flights
    URRG |URRF 4| Level 2 | TRA# 14210

  12. #1812
    Join Date
    21st May 2016
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    60
    Had the pleasure of having a d15 load blow the rear closure on the maiden flight attempt of my Sat V. Did a pretty nice job on the motor mount, but no other damage to the rocket that I can tell. I'm guessing I should consider the case and closure scrap, even though I don't see any visible damage? I found the fuel grain about 10ft from the pad, that thing really rebounded off the blast deflector. Any idea what would cause this? Closure was screwed tight/flush, stock ignitor, cut a hole in the red cap. This was the second one from the pack, first one lit fine (these were actually the first two load for this brand new case).

  13. #1813
    Join Date
    18th January 2009
    Location
    Savannnah, Ga
    Posts
    7,657
    One should always take pictures of parts/damage for inspection. You can tell a lot from them,& more often than not determine failure.
    Jim Hendricksen
    L-3 Tripoli 9693
    [ICBM, Orangeburg,SC R.I.P.] - QCRS ,Princeton ILL - MDRA , Price Maryland - Woosh, Bong Wisconsin- ROCC, Charlotte NC , ICBM Camden SC
    "Made" member of Chicago & Carolina Rocket Mafia
    Rocketry...........an exact science.......but not exactly !!!

  14. #1814
    Join Date
    27th July 2014
    Location
    south beloit, IL
    Posts
    2,190
    Quote Originally Posted by Initiator001 View Post
    Such motors could not be used in NAR competition.
    Don't want to loose any possible sales.
    Confused by this- I thought certified is certified, and Tripoli certification is ok?
    NAR# 99285
    Tripoli# 16283
    L1- 4/26/2015 Madcow Cowabunga- H123SK
    L2- 11/1/2015 Wildman Darkstar 2.6- J355RL
    L3- 11/3/2017 Wildman V2 6" - M1780NT
    Woosh
    QCRS

  15. #1815
    Join Date
    10th October 2010
    Location
    Erie Colorado
    Posts
    667
    Cross certification only applies to sport flying. NAR competition requires NAR competition certification.

    Quote Originally Posted by djs View Post
    Confused by this- I thought certified is certified, and Tripoli certification is ok?
    Peter Olivola

  16. #1816
    Join Date
    15th May 2016
    Posts
    2,098
    So can NAR get their $@!# together and test them already?
    David McCann
    Dave's Rockets | My Flights
    URRG |URRF 4| Level 2 | TRA# 14210

  17. #1817
    Join Date
    27th August 2015
    Posts
    78
    I wonder how sales would stack up worldwide, sport fliers vs NAR comp?
    Maybe dual certify to keep the sport fliers happy? Any extra costs involved in dual certification would probably have been recouped by now.
    Simon
    #24 Western Australian Rocketry Society
    #54 Australian Model Rocket Society

  18. #1818
    Join Date
    10th October 2010
    Location
    Erie Colorado
    Posts
    667
    The physical testing of engines is only part of the process. There are government hoops to jump through before the motors can be legally shipped for any purpose. For competition, the motors need to be generally available before they're certified for that use. There's a lot more to motor certification and test firing motor samples.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
    So can NAR get their $@!# together and test them already?
    Peter Olivola

  19. #1819
    Join Date
    15th May 2016
    Posts
    2,098
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Olivola View Post
    The physical testing of engines is only part of the process. There are government hoops to jump through before the motors can be legally shipped for any purpose. For competition, the motors need to be generally available before they're certified for that use. There's a lot more to motor certification and test firing motor samples.
    It sounds like none of that is what's slowing things down.
    Last edited by DavidMcCann; 21st June 2017 at 10:18 AM.
    David McCann
    Dave's Rockets | My Flights
    URRG |URRF 4| Level 2 | TRA# 14210

  20. #1820
    Join Date
    10th October 2010
    Location
    Erie Colorado
    Posts
    667
    Oh? Where can you readily purchase the Klima motors?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
    It sounds like none of that is what's slowing things down.
    Peter Olivola

  21. #1821
    Join Date
    24th July 2016
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    141
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Olivola View Post
    Oh? Where can you readily purchase the Klima motors?
    Klima motors are made in Europe and are prohibitively expensive to ship to the US. The availability of Klima motors has nothing to do with NAR S&T taking so long.

  22. #1822
    Join Date
    9th May 2009
    Posts
    1,569
    The test requirements for model rocket motors require more firings than for HPR motors. I'm not sure if TMT has ever tested a model rocket motor. It would be nice to hear NAR S&T's side of the story.

  23. #1823
    Join Date
    10th October 2010
    Location
    Erie Colorado
    Posts
    667
    You sound like you KNOW why it's taking so long. Care to share?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kallahan11 View Post
    Klima motors are made in Europe and are prohibitively expensive to ship to the US. The availability of Klima motors has nothing to do with NAR S&T taking so long.
    Peter Olivola

  24. #1824
    Join Date
    15th May 2016
    Posts
    2,098
    Whut?
    David McCann
    Dave's Rockets | My Flights
    URRG |URRF 4| Level 2 | TRA# 14210

  25. #1825
    Join Date
    24th July 2016
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    141
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Olivola View Post
    You sound like you KNOW why it's taking so long. Care to share?
    I know why Klima motors aren't available in the US, I also know from Aerotech the delays are not on their end. I never stated I knew why the motors were taking this long to cert.

  26. #1826
    Join Date
    26th February 2012
    Location
    Poultney , Vt
    Posts
    896
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Olivola View Post
    You sound like you KNOW why it's taking so long. Care to share?
    Would the expert care to share ? If AGM states its out of there hands , why argue ? If you have been around for the last three to four years , you'd see the pattern developing.

    Eric
    You must always push your limits , because if you never fail , you will never succeed .

  27. #1827
    Join Date
    10th October 2010
    Location
    Erie Colorado
    Posts
    667
    Sorry to have confused the Klima motors with the reloads in question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kallahan11 View Post
    I know why Klima motors aren't available in the US, I also know from Aerotech the delays are not on their end. I never stated I knew why the motors were taking this long to cert.
    Peter Olivola

  28. #1828
    Join Date
    24th July 2016
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    141
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Olivola View Post
    Sorry to have confused the Klima motors with the reloads in question.
    That makes sense now, I was wondering where Klima came from. The widespread availability of the motors is a requirement for competition certification, so they have to have NAR cert first, and then they can get the competition cert when they are easily available to all competition flyers.

  29. #1829
    Join Date
    18th March 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    3,541
    Quote Originally Posted by blackjack2564 View Post
    One should always take pictures of parts/damage for inspection. You can tell a lot from them,& more often than not determine failure.
    Might I add something important. Please fill out the form on motorcato.org. This is the official mechanism to report motor failures so that the motor cert orgs see the data. Without this data there is no mechanism to track issues that might be happening on a larger scale.
    Mark Koelsch
    Tripoli 6155 L3
    Owner of http://www.rocketryfiles.com/
    Editor of http://www.thrustcurve.org/
    Member of the Tripoli Motor Test Committee, and keeper of the motor file

  30. #1830
    Join Date
    27th January 2009
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    2,095
    I received this yesterday, didn't see it on their facebook page, home page or listed here anywhere...I had one of the "small number" of L-1000's this last weekend at NXRS mfg november 15, 2016 that had the casing separate and cato, a reminder for the date code, for it's YMDDMY 111516 so first and last make the year, ie 16, second and fifth make the month, ie 11, 3rd and forth make the day, 15. I did have two that I had previously flown from May and August that worked fine. Gary was there at NXRS and looked at it and thought the wind angle may have been at fault, which this confirms.

    Dear AeroTech Retailer,

    We have recently received reports of a very small number of case failures of the 54mm J450DM and L1000W, and the 75mm M1350W.

    After investigation, we discovered that the wind angle on the fiberglass cases used in these motors is out of specification. This reduces the strength of the case and could result in an increased incidence of motor failures.

    Please pull any of the above mentioned motors from your stock that have been received since January 1, 2016. Also, return the M1350W case assemblies (nozzle, case & liner) you currently have to AeroTech/RCS as soon as possible. Do not sell any of the M1350Ws until the case assemblies have been replaced.

    Please contact any customers you may have sold these to and let them know so they can be replaced if not already used.

    Let us know the number of these motors that you have in stock and we will send you replacements as soon as possible.

    We apologize for the inconvenience, and thank you for your continued support.


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