How do you test eMatches for ejection charges

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NattyDread

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The other day we were testing ejection charges. It didn't work. 9v battery ok, couldn't get ematch to light. Ematch was bad. I always test them w ohm meter. But now I get why that's not a good method.

How do you test them,
 
I check continuity, should be ~1.4 ohms. When I test my charges, I just touch the e-match leads to a 9volt battery, new or used & they've always fired. How many were bad?
 
The other day we were testing ejection charges. It didn't work. 9v battery ok, couldn't get ematch to light. Ematch was bad. I always test them w ohm meter. But now I get why that's not a good method.

How do you test them,

I'm not sure why you say testing with an ohm meter is not a good method. That is the only way I can thing of testing them, other then destructive testing where you actually fire the e-match.

I understand how you could have a bad match that did test good with a meter. That doesn't mean the testing method is faulty, only that it wasn't able to test all failure modes.

I had a DD rocket where both e-matches tested about 1.2 ohm resistance before they were installed. The altimeter beeped out good continuity on both matches. During the flight, neither match fired their ejection charges. After I was incredibly lucky and the rocket fluttered the whole way down, the matches were measured again. Both read open. The bridge wires were burnt through by the altimeter, but neither burned the pyrogen. Both were bad matches, but neither one was something the multimeter would have been able to determine.

Bottom line, testing with a multimeter is probably the best method we have of testing our ematches prior to flight. It's not 100%, but it's the best I know of.
 
I think he means that resistance alone isn't a good indication of the e-match's viability, and I can certainly attest to that. I received a whole box of 80 commercial e-matches, every one I measured came in right around 1.2 to 1.4Ω, not a single one I ground-tested actually burned, they simply blew open when the voltage was applied. But the vendor replaced the box with ones that do work (same resistance), and I also found some from another vendor that was 3 for 3 in ground tests. Planning on using these for the first time in the air this weekend!

So ultimately I think it's a roll of the dice. The ohm meter can tell you if the e-match is already open or, if you have a good enough meter, that it's shorted, as either of those definitely won't work. But I don't think there's any way to know that the match will fire until you actually try it. Having a bunch from a batch and good luck with the batch probably increases the chances that the rest are good, but even that may be wishful thinking, there could always still be some duds I'd think. Good reason to have redundancy if you can afford/fit it, in my 4" rocket I'll have 2 charge wells and 2 e-matches per end, for my 38mm MD I just don't have the space for dual electronics so there won't be a backup (and since I'm using a MD motor retainer no motor backup either, though with my recent experiences on motor eject I don't really consider it an option anyway).

As far as the actual testing, the electronics I own all have ground test modes, the Eggtimer TRS can do it from the LCD receiver, so you can do the ground test with a sealed-up rocket from a safe distance (very handy!). My EasyMini and StratoLoggers can do manual firing if connected to a PC (just push a button in the associated software while connected), but that means you need to run a cable out of the rocket if trying to do it assembled. There's also the vacuum cleaner trick, tape off all but one of the ventilation holes, use a shop vac to lower the pressure in the bay then remove it (and be prepared for the charge to go off very quickly after you remove the vacuum), to fool a barometric altimeter into thinking it went up and started coming down (probably want to make sure you're using the main channel and that it's set to a pretty low altitude, I could barely get my altimeters to read 800' with my shop vac). But when I was checking to see if any of the bad batch of e-matches worked, I tested a bunch just touching the leads to my 2s LiPo battery terminals as well, rather than assembling the rocket, loading any BP in the wells, etc. With the good e-matches this same technique worked just fine.
 
I too had a bad batch of eMatches. After a poor percentage of successful charges igniting during ground testing of a newly built scratch rocket, I contacted the manufacturer. They confirmed there was an issue with the first run of their new eMatch product and they replaced my entire order. So far the new batch of this same brand had been 100% in ground testing (6 eMatches) and in actual flight (4 eMatches). However, because of the experience with multiple failures in ground testing, I started making my charges (nitrile glove finger tip method) with 2 eMatches each. I tested my dual deployment altimeter with 4 eMatches (2 on drogue channel, 2 on main channel) and a vacuum chamber to confirm it could handle firing all 4 eMatches within a few seconds.

In answer to the OPs question, I do test my eMatches with an ohm meter to make sure they are within the manufacturers specs prior to constructing my charges. Like previous replies, I don't know what else you could do to test them....
 
I check continuity, should be ~1.4 ohms. When I test my charges, I just touch the e-match leads to a 9volt battery, new or used & they've always fired. How many were bad?
We only had time to test one and then ran out of time. I guess it just surprised me that it could fail after ohm meter testing. Awful way to lose a rocket :(
 
Will Ferry, You commented "The ohm meter can tell you if the e-match is already open or, if you have a good enough meter, that it's shorted". What kind of ohm meter would tell if it's shorted and what am I looking for in the reading? Also, I just assumed I was looking for either open or closed w the meter. So I will take a look at the specs of the ones I have
 
Depending on the meter, there are typically two modes. One is simple continuity, this mode usually has a beep associated with it as well (the meter will beep while holding the probe tips together). Don't use this mode if you have a proper resistance mode (usually shown with a "Ω" sign). On Flukes for instance the models I've used the dial position is for the ohm meter, and if you push one of the buttons it toggles to/from the continuity mode.

The problem with really low resistances is that the probes of the meter can have a pretty big effect on the results. What I do (and this can be a bit tricky with just your two hands, a helper makes it easier) is to hold one lead of the e-match to each probe tip and note the number, then make the two e-match leads touch each other while keeping the probes touching the leads where they were before (don't touch the probes together, just get the leads to touch). Now note how much the number changes. This delta would be the resistance of the e-match, the number you get when the leads are shorted is just the resistance of your probes. You may want to repeat this a few times and hopefully you'll get the same answer. :) On my pretty high-end Fluke for instance I can get ~2 ohms just touching the two probe tips together. But I'll get a ~1.2 ohm higher reading when measuring through the e-match so that shows the added resistance of the e-match. Amusingly the dirt-cheap pocket multimeter I carry in my range box gives a much closer to 0Ω reading when touching its tips together than my orders of magnitude more expensive Fluke, I suspect because the leads of the cheapo meter are permanently-attached so they may have taken the extra step of (crudely) calibrating the lead resistance, while the Fluke has interchangeable leads so they probably didn't bother since they don't know what you might plug into it.

But do try to ensure that you don't move where the e-match leads touch the probe tips while taking both measurements, as how well you're making that contact, or where the contact occurs on the probe can make a difference that could be a fraction of an ohm, which is pretty significant error when you're only trying to measure one ohm.

Because the above technique should account for any added resistance, I've sometimes used a pair of wires with alligator clips on each end, each clip-wire connecting one probe tip to one lead of the e-match. The alligator clips make it a bit easier to just touch the leads together without disturbing much else. The meter reading will be higher when shorting the leads because of the extra wire length and clips, but again the delta in the readings is what matters here. If you add too much resistance however the meter may start to lose precision, i.e. it may only show you tenths of an ohm while the reading is <10&#937;, so you can't go too crazy with extra resistance in the measurement setup. You really want the meter showing you 0.1&#937; or smaller increments, so that you don't have to worry about it rounding between 1 and 2.

There are also much fancier '4-wire' ohm meters, where the meter has 4 leads and you connect two to each point you're trying to measure. The 4-wire measurement technique allows the meter to calibrate away the resistance of the probes automatically, but these are generally more expensive meters (and typically bench-top meters, I've never seen a handheld that had a 4-wire mode). They do give you much better precision in the milli-ohm range though, since this is what they're meant for (you need a 4-wire measurement to get rid of the cabling error).
 
My cheaper meter has a dial to zero the resistance when you touch the probes together. I recently bought a new one that might not have this dial/wheel. Is that the same thing/effect?



Depending on the meter, there are typically two modes. One is simple continuity, this mode usually has a beep associated with it as well (the meter will beep while holding the probe tips together). Don't use this mode if you have a proper resistance mode (usually shown with a "&#937;" sign). On Flukes for instance the models I've used the dial position is for the ohm meter, and if you push one of the buttons it toggles to/from the continuity mode.

The problem with really low resistances is that the probes of the meter can have a pretty big effect on the results. What I do (and this can be a bit tricky with just your two hands, a helper makes it easier) is to hold one lead of the e-match to each probe tip and note the number, then make the two e-match leads touch each other while keeping the probes touching the leads where they were before (don't touch the probes together, just get the leads to touch). Now note how much the number changes. This delta would be the resistance of the e-match, the number you get when the leads are shorted is just the resistance of your probes. You may want to repeat this a few times and hopefully you'll get the same answer. :) On my pretty high-end Fluke for instance I can get ~2 ohms just touching the two probe tips together. But I'll get a ~1.2 ohm higher reading when measuring through the e-match so that shows the added resistance of the e-match. Amusingly the dirt-cheap pocket multimeter I carry in my range box gives a much closer to 0&#937; reading when touching its tips together than my orders of magnitude more expensive Fluke, I suspect because the leads of the cheapo meter are permanently-attached so they may have taken the extra step of (crudely) calibrating the lead resistance, while the Fluke has interchangeable leads so they probably didn't bother since they don't know what you might plug into it.

But do try to ensure that you don't move where the e-match leads touch the probe tips while taking both measurements, as how well you're making that contact, or where the contact occurs on the probe can make a difference that could be a fraction of an ohm, which is pretty significant error when you're only trying to measure one ohm.

Because the above technique should account for any added resistance, I've sometimes used a pair of wires with alligator clips on each end, each clip-wire connecting one probe tip to one lead of the e-match. The alligator clips make it a bit easier to just touch the leads together without disturbing much else. The meter reading will be higher when shorting the leads because of the extra wire length and clips, but again the delta in the readings is what matters here. If you add too much resistance however the meter may start to lose precision, i.e. it may only show you tenths of an ohm while the reading is <10&#937;, so you can't go too crazy with extra resistance in the measurement setup. You really want the meter showing you 0.1&#937; or smaller increments, so that you don't have to worry about it rounding between 1 and 2.

There are also much fancier '4-wire' ohm meters, where the meter has 4 leads and you connect two to each point you're trying to measure. The 4-wire measurement technique allows the meter to calibrate away the resistance of the probes automatically, but these are generally more expensive meters (and typically bench-top meters, I've never seen a handheld that had a 4-wire mode). They do give you much better precision in the milli-ohm range though, since this is what they're meant for (you need a 4-wire measurement to get rid of the cabling error).
 
An ohmmeter will tell you if the ematch is open or shorted, but it won't tell you if there is an issue with the pyrogen that may keep it from lighting. This is true for igniters too, I've found that the Estes Sonic Pro Series II igniters that they sell for use with their branded Aerotech motors don't like 12V car batteries... the bridgewire just blows without lighting the pyrogen. Switched to a 6V alkaline lantern battery, lights every time. I've heard anecdotal comments about some low current ematches, they don't like LiPo's but 9V batteries are fine, because the lower current causes them to heat up a bit slower so there's better heat transfer to the pyrogen. Personally, I only fly Q2G2's, I've probably used a few hundred of them and they work 100% of the time, with just about any battery you can think of.
 
See attached, not sure if anyone can Id the brand. I didn't buy it myself

image.jpg
 
See attached, not sure if anyone can Id the brand. I didn't buy it myself

Maybe it is just me, but whatever brand it is (looks like MJG) it does not look "factory fresh". Looks to be altered, re-soldered, something. The insulation on the wires seems to be too short from the chip??? Solder ball don't look right.
 
In discussions I've had with PerfectFlite over various e-matches, batteries, and Stratologger altimeters, the one thing that keeps ringing in my head was sampling. What do I mean? Take a number of e-matches from a batch and test them when they arrive. I buy mine in lots of 100, and I take between 5 and 10 of them and, one at a time, connect them to the same power source that I'll use for flight. If it's a 9V, so be it; if it's a LiPo, I'll test them with that, and so on.

I've heard horror stories from more than one altimeter manufacturer about batches of bad e-matches (usually of the Chinese fireworks variety) to make me test the lots. If I have a "pop" and flame from each of the matches I test out of a batch, I can feel relatively safe that the rest are ok too.

In cases where I've wanted to back up the e-match, I've used two of them in the same charge well. Just be sure that your electronics will fire two matches in parallel in ground testing...
 
In cases where I've wanted to back up the e-match, I've used two of them in the same charge well. Just be sure that your electronics will fire two matches in parallel in ground testing...

I have tested this about a dozen times and flown it twice, all successful and in flight it gave me a bit extra comfort. In my case it was with a StratoLogger SL100 and whatever e matches Wildman sells at the launches, not sure which brand. The battery was a 1S 25C 350mAh Li-Po.
 
You're more brave than I! I get the sphincter factor using a 1S Li-Po for some reason... :)

The Li-Po batteries I use are 2S, 7.4V

Well it wasn't my first choice. It was actually recommended to me by Bob Krech, after I had a failure which was diagnosed as too much resistance from the altimeter to the e-match. After that failure I changed my wiring from 24 Gauge to 20 gauge and switched to Li-Po batteries. I also realized that most handheld multimeters are not very good at measuring resistance near and under 1 ohm so I picked up a nice bench Multimeter, pricy and can't bring it out the filed but I test everything with it now. Still I do need a new handheld for the launches.

Before I embraced Bob's recommendation I tested it thoroughly. So I charged my 1S Li-Po popped it into my AV bay and left it for two days just to see the effect the mag switch had, as they draw current, but it was minute. I then did back to back tests with dual e-matches as per my previous post, using the SL100 and firing them via the USB interface from my Macbook. I would literally fire the apogee dual e-match, then immediately fire the main, reset and repeat, I think one evening I did that 3 times on the same Li-Po.

So in the end the Li-Po really performed.
 
Still I do need a new handheld for the launches.

You could search Ebay for a reasonably priced Valhalla 4314 Igniter Tester or if you are at all handy with a soldering iron, build one.

While you may not require a safety certified tester like the 4314, you should at least consider the test current on ordinary DMM's. It might be more than you expect.
 
You could search Ebay for a reasonably priced Valhalla 4314 Igniter Tester or if you are at all handy with a soldering iron, build one.

While you may not require a safety certified tester like the 4314, you should at least consider the test current on ordinary DMM's. It might be more than you expect.

Ok, I give up. What is this thing and how did you know it existed? What does it test for? It can't just be a fancy ohm meter??? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Valhalla-S...niter-Tester-Instr-Maint-Manual-/300891377898
 
I use a 9v battery. That seems simple as compared to the all the stuff you read about Why would u Not use a 9v battery. Just trying to learn here.
Well it wasn't my first choice. It was actually recommended to me by Bob Krech, after I had a failure which was diagnosed as too much resistance from the altimeter to the e-match. After that failure I changed my wiring from 24 Gauge to 20 gauge and switched to Li-Po batteries. I also realized that most handheld multimeters are not very good at measuring resistance near and under 1 ohm so I picked up a nice bench Multimeter, pricy and can't bring it out the filed but I test everything with it now. Still I do need a new handheld for the launches.

Before I embraced Bob's recommendation I tested it thoroughly. So I charged my 1S Li-Po popped it into my AV bay and left it for two days just to see the effect the mag switch had, as they draw current, but it was minute. I then did back to back tests with dual e-matches as per my previous post, using the SL100 and firing them via the USB interface from my Macbook. I would literally fire the apogee dual e-match, then immediately fire the main, reset and repeat, I think one evening I did that 3 times on the same Li-Po.

So in the end the Li-Po really performed.
 
. I recollect the are


I'm not sure what your saying. If the wires are blue and white they are MJG Firewire. They are the only un-regulated ematches on the market, but had issues with the first batch and were recalled by the company.

Tony
 
I'm not sure what your saying. If the wires are blue and white they are MJG Firewire. They are the only un-regulated ematches on the market, but had issues with the first batch and were recalled by the company.

Tony
Sorry. Not sure. The ignightr was purchased by a friend at the launch, so I don't know the brand. It was a blue and white wire. Other than the picture, I don't know much else.
 
It definitely looks like the Firewire Initiator from MJG Technologies. If it is, this is the same brand I had issues with multiple failures during ground testing. If I recall correctly I had 7 out of 10 fail to ignite directly off a 9V battery. My initial purchase was through PyroDirect. I contacted MJG Technologies using the 'Contact' link on their home page. MJG noted there were issues with an early production run and replaced my order of 40 units even though my initial purchase was not through them. With that kind of customer service I figured I would give them another chance. I tested some straight off my RRC2+(with 9V battery) using a vacuum chamber, and some more in additional ground testing straight off a 9V battery. With no failures in the testing of the new batch, I flew them successfully two weeks ago in my first dual deploy flight.
 
I use a 9v battery. That seems simple as compared to the all the stuff you read about Why would u Not use a 9v battery. Just trying to learn here.

I started with 9V, and one of my rockets (3" Patriot) still uses the 9V as I just haven't felt the need to modify the sled to change over to Li-Po. 9V batteries always irritated me from a rocketry standpoint due to their bulk and mass. I don't like adding any more weight than I really need - prefer to fly strong but light too.

So, I came to this forum after a talk with a L3 in my club. He uses 1S Li-Po batteries, and I bought some, but I found that finding all the little connectors for them to be a PITA, so I started looking here. A TRF regular whose name I can't remember had a series of posts up in one thread that convinced me the 2S Li-Po was the way to go, and I've never looked back. I got a balancing charger for about $30 off FeeBay, the batteries cost about $3.50 each, even CHEAPER than most 9Vs, and the connectors are simple to find and plentiful (the Li-Po uses a "plug" type connector, different between the 1S and 2S).

The Li-Po batteries get a fresh charge before each launch weekend while they're still in the AV Bays, and I fly them over and over with little loss of voltage (if any) and plenty of discharge current to fire the e-matches. NOTE: AT LEAST ONE OF MY STRATOLOGGER CF ALTIMETERS ROUTINELY REPORTS AN OVERCURRENT SITUATION THAT THE USER MANUAL TELLS ME COULD DAMAGE THE ALTIMETER, BUT 10+ FLIGHTS WITH IT HAVE SEEN NO PROBLEMS.

All-in-all, I just like the Li-Po for its size/weight. Otherwise, I'd use 9V batteries. It's also far easier to get a Li-Po that's 1" x .25" x .5" into a 6" 38mm or 54mm AV Bay than it is to get a 9V. Long AV Bays bother me too. I don't like going any longer on the AV bay than 2x the diameter of the rocket. So, all my rockets just get Li-Po batteries now.

S
 
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You don't need 2 charge wells, you can fit 2 matches to one charge well and if any one of those fires, the charge will fire.
 
I use a 9v battery. That seems simple as compared to the all the stuff you read about Why would u Not use a 9v battery. Just trying to learn here.

You might want to read an old thread of mine which gets into why a Li-Po is a better choice than an Alkaline, specifically posts #37 https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...ut-do-direct-on-altimeter&highlight=mpitfield

The Li-Po batteries get a fresh charge before each launch weekend while they're still in the AV Bays, and I fly them over and over with little loss of voltage (if any) and plenty of discharge current to fire the e-matches. NOTE: AT LEAST ONE OF MY STRATOLOGGER CF ALTIMETERS ROUTINELY REPORTS AN OVERCURRENT SITUATION THAT THE USER MANUAL TELLS ME COULD DAMAGE THE ALTIMETER, BUT 10+ FLIGHTS WITH IT HAVE SEEN NO PROBLEMS.

Same thread as above but post @25 and #37 which gets into why a 1S is better suited for the StratoLogger
 
You might want to read an old thread of mine which gets into why a Li-Po is a better choice than an Alkaline, specifically posts #37 https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...ut-do-direct-on-altimeter&highlight=mpitfield



Same thread as above but post @25 and #37 which gets into why a 1S is better suited for the StratoLogger

Nice thread. I'm going with what sounds like a wimpy 3.7V 180mah cell for a Raven in a GoDevil 38. Looks incredibly inadequate but folks including the altimeter maker use 'em so with some testing on MY end to make ME feel confident I believe it will
work out fine. Plus that 180mah cell is nice and small. Kurt
 
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