Electric Igniters/matches for fireworks?

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overklock

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I've got a few F engines, but I don't want to spend 6 bucks for 2 estes igniters. Has anyone ever used an electric match? How well do they work?

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First- you have to make sure the head will fit thru the nozzle. Esp. AFTER ignition or you will re-kit your rocket on the pad. Second-you have to realize most of these ignitors are used for fireworks displays initiating 'quickmatch' or a similar black powder/cellulose wick. These typically may not have enough (or any) hot solids to fire a composite motor, but you might get away with BP motors. I've had excellent luck with rocketflite.com products and you can make a boat load in an evening. Straight smoke and good chutes!
 
I'd also mention that ematches are very low current devices, and you need to be sure the continuity check of your firing panel doesn't trigger them.

Kevin
 
BP motors only!!!!

Yes...if done correctly & with CORRECT type of Starter [must be politically correct folks!]

NO if wrong type and inserted bad.

There are several types of starters available. Doesn't matter if using for ejection.
For starting motors [BP NOT AP] you want the type used for Visco fuse, these burn for almost 1 sec. others just "pop".
Ones that "pop"are useless for this, they are for lifting charges in mortars [fireworks]. There are several other types of no concern here.

BP starting with low current starters "101"

These are the ones I have/use with success. 3 types ,but with same results.

Larger head brown. Larger head dark red. Small head bright red.[I wish I had the real explanation on this size diffrence]
The color is mostly dictated by the nitro-laquer they are dipped in for moisture/handling protection. Also a means of quick recognition for inventory.
Wire color can also dictate length, but not always.
These are all low current but continuity check will not fire. All fire .4-.5 amp

You need to ask/find out before buying.

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Next insert the head front end down into nozzle.This is a D & C motors. I have no doubt they all will fit & work in F's

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Not sideways if they don't fit.

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They carefully cover with tape to hold in place & form a "shape charge".
They fire off the front, so you want the front facing INTO nozzle.
If you use a straw [like some Q-'s come with] to wedge in nozzle. They may not work. Found this out hard way.

DSCN4816.jpg

I have done this with cluster of 9 motors. 3-13mm 3-18mm 3-24mm . All lit instantly

With motor where won't fit in nozzle place at entrance front edge facing in & tape solidly in place.
May take some practice, but once learned a very cheap & viable alternative to more expensive starters!
 
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Blackjack. Amazing post! Thank you. Unfortunately, the F's are composite motors. Not sure they would work since they're not black powder.
 
I have used ematches with a secondary dip. They will light just about anything with a little magnelite dip.
 
We ran out of igniters at a LP kids demo launch where they built little badminton birdie rockets that fly on 1/2A motors. The young girl who's rocket it was was very upset, literally in tears as she waited until the very end. So I loaded up an ematch not sure what would happen and man did that little sucker go high. It must of gone an extra 30 feet, considering they only went 30 feet to begin with...she went from tears to all smiles. So I have no idea if they will work in every situation but it certainly worked + in my case.
 
I've found that for BP motors, a few wraps of nichrome wire from one shooter wire to the other and dipped in BP and nitrocellulose lacquer mix works great.

If you buy a small spool of nichrome wire and collect the used igniter from the HPR launch, you can put together a lot of these for about 3 - 5 cents each. Call me cheap :duck:
 
These igniters are far more useful for igniting ejection charges for electronics since they take very little current to light. If you want to light composite motors with this (also useful for airstarts) you will need to fortify them with extra pyrogen because they are designed to light bp based compositions.

Remember the head is kinda big so it may not fit smaller composite motors, like most LMR motors. Also be very careful around it, the head is sensitive to impact and friction. It will go off if you step on it.
 
So many mixed opinions! Don't know whether to buy e-matches, or be on the safe side and buy igniters...

Here's one that says it was MADE for rockets and fireworks.

N5RcAgT.png
 
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They're quite expensive compared to the Chinese e match and not as reliable. But then Chinese e match are supposed to require an explosive permit but that seems unenforced (given how many on amazon and ebay sell them).
 
I'd contest the assertion that Firewires are less reliable than the Chinese ematches. One of the first batches sent out did indeed have a high failure rate due to some problem with the manufacturing process, but that has been corrected and the current product fires 100%

Yes they are more expensive than the Chinese ematches, which are shipped illegally and illegally labelled for customs. Any doubts, just ask the manufacturer for the EX number. They will likely give you an EX number, but if you look it up it will be for some other product completely.

Kevin
 
I'd contest the assertion that Firewires are less reliable than the Chinese ematches. One of the first batches sent out did indeed have a high failure rate due to some problem with the manufacturing process, but that has been corrected and the current product fires 100%

Yes they are more expensive than the Chinese ematches, which are shipped illegally and illegally labelled for customs. Any doubts, just ask the manufacturer for the EX number. They will likely give you an EX number, but if you look it up it will be for some other product completely.

Kevin

Sorry for my ignorance, but what are "Firewires"? Standard igniters?
 
Firewire is a trade name for MJG's consumer legal ematches. The blue and white wired matches shown in post #14 ;)

Kevin
 
I've started F50s with the MJG firewire igniters, but they don't work reliably for propellents other Blue Thunder. Sometimes they will start other single use motors, but only really the F50 and G80 start reliably.
 
Also be very careful around it, the head is sensitive to impact and friction. It will go off if you step on it.


Ya know I have always wondered about this,so I decided to do my own testing:

I tried individually, then bundled 3 of each together for a group of 9, & did the following after removing the head protectors:

Stepped on them, repeatedly & vigorously.
Jumped on them repeatedly with various footwear.
Tried to light by striking/rubbing on various matchbook lighting pads & kitchen box size.
Smacking on different surfaces, concrete, brick,tile wood.
Rubbing them rapidly on above surfaces.
Hitting with hammer, and other metal tools, lightly & heavily.
Placed bundle on sidewalk, then a 1x6 pine board on top, jumped on board repeatedly.
Placing in small shipping box and shaking, dropping repeatedly ,with no packing and heads exposed.

.......all to no avail. I could not get them to spark or light no matter what I did

They chipped, broke pyrogen off and were literally destroyed...but none ever fired. I went through 24 testing.
When finished all but 2 lit or sputtered when touched to battery.

In my mind not so sensitive as thought.
Could this be another urban myth?
 
Which e match did you test? the MJG one is not very sensitive at all and won't go off from being crushed, but I know the Chinese e match is quite a bit more sensitive because it contains chlorate/antimony sulfide mixture. I never tried setting it off by impact myself but I've seen youtube videos where they did go off from being hammered. Also accidents have happened where e matches were installed onto fireworks, and then the match lit due to impact lighting the fireworks they were in. The sleeve from my understanding is to protect the head from being crushed (rendering them useless) or accidentally ignited. It also directs the fire forward.
 
The Chinese matches are not sensitive to friction unless it generates static electricity. I have tested them in the same manner. I hit on with a 5 pound hammer and it did not fire. I rubbed one across concrete and it did not fire.

This is an urban myth.
 
Which e match did you test? the MJG one is not very sensitive at all and won't go off from being crushed, but I know the Chinese e match is quite a bit more sensitive because it contains chlorate/antimony sulfide mixture. I never tried setting it off by impact myself but I've seen youtube videos where they did go off from being hammered. Also accidents have happened where e matches were installed onto fireworks, and then the match lit due to impact lighting the fireworks they were in. The sleeve from my understanding is to protect the head from being crushed (rendering them useless) or accidentally ignited. It also directs the fire forward.

All 3 types shown in post #4. All were Chinese. I must add this caveat...."they type that I have/use".
I cannot confirm use with ALL types out there. I am comfortable knowing the type I have on hand are safe when used properly with out being overly sensitive.

I'm sure there are incidents that happened occasionally, there is always an exception to the rule.
But by & by, I'm convinced with reasonable care it ain't happening.

I personally DID this.... no here say or reading about it. Try as I might, could not make it so.

"in god we trust, all others bring data"

I have also seen impact ignitions.
This is usually brought on by the "concussion" of another charge firing near by, with enough force to make anything nearby auto-ignite. Not necessarily the match, more likely another BP charge of some type used for lifting or propelling something "up".
 
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Earlier ematches were indeed quite sensitive, because, as mentioned by TL, many were based on potassium chlorate or lead azide. Manufacturers are keeping current formulas pretty close to the vest, but they are certainly less sensitive to handling than previously. Like you, Jim, I've tried to initiate modern ematches using various energies (friction, impact, static). Nada.

Kevin
 
Earlier ematches were indeed quite sensitive, because, as mentioned by TL, many were based on potassium chlorate or lead azide. Manufacturers are keeping current formulas pretty close to the vest, but they are certainly less sensitive to handling than previously. Like you, Jim, I've tried to initiate modern ematches using various energies (friction, impact, static). Nada.

Kevin

Similar to Jim, I have tried all but static. I will try to generate static discharge.
 
One reason they are using such a sensitive pyrogen is because the e match must fire reliably at very low currents. That means using very thin filaments as well as having to have lower ignition temperature. The filament alone wouldn't ignite black powder based pyrogen. Perhaps they found a formula that allows not only low ignition temperature but insensitive to shock and friction.

I'm pretty sure Chinese E match still use chlorate based formula however, because they smell like safety match when they go off.
 
I'm a little late to the ball game, but last month I lit a CTI K600W with an e-match. I couldn't find the included starter anywhere, so I stopped in the AMW trailer and they handed me a n e-match and said give it a shot. Worked like a charm.

However, it is of note that CTI VMAX and Skidmark propellants require more heat, and their starters come with a little thermite in the tip. So they won't light from an e-match.
 
I thought I read somewhere that CTI motors have thermite or bp based compositions at the delay grain so that it takes very little to ignite it.
 
I'm a little late to the ball game, but last month I lit a CTI K600W with an e-match. I couldn't find the included starter anywhere, so I stopped in the AMW trailer and they handed me a n e-match and said give it a shot. Worked like a charm.

However, it is of note that CTI VMAX and Skidmark propellants require more heat, and their starters come with a little thermite in the tip. So they won't light from an e-match.

A lot of the CTI motors have a Pyrodex or similar pellat in them and they light easily with an ematch. I have never had a CTI motor not light. I have had a Gorilla Red and AMW Green Gorrila not light. I used my formula on them and although it did not light quick, but they did light.
 
Most CTI motors up to L size 54's come with a BP pellet pressed into the top grain. A couple of the 54 L's also use dipped, no pellet.
75's & 98's do not have pellet, the core is too large.
Some V-max's don't use BP pellets either. [small one's do]
Easy to tell, just look at the starter taped to the tube. Either a plain match or a dipped one.
Dipped are a match folded over [the wire] & dipped in pyrogen. When lighting large motors you fold the wire 1 or two times to increase surface area of pyrogen. Some folks that make their own, dip several times ,which is a mistake. Being thick it can be blown off in chunks rather than ignite & burn in a timely fashion.

The BP pellet [not pyrodex by the way] causes a spike at ignition. This is the reason CTI does not want you to use a "standard" igniter.
Between the spike from the pellet & spike from a standard igniter/motor starter....you can over pressurize motor, then bad things happen.

Reason the K-600 lit with match,is the BP pellet. You just substituted one match for another, which is what they recommend, should you lose or burn the supplied one.

I have a bag full of pellets I use, in non-CTI motors, especially airstarts or staging, where failure is not an option.[anyone can easily make them with care of course]
Recently I have made some Boron-KN pellets that work even better, but we can't discuss that here.
 
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One reason they are using such a sensitive pyrogen is because the e match must fire reliably at very low currents. That means using very thin filaments as well as having to have lower ignition temperature. The filament alone wouldn't ignite black powder based pyrogen. Perhaps they found a formula that allows not only low ignition temperature but insensitive to shock and friction.

I'm pretty sure Chinese E match still use chlorate based formula however, because they smell like safety match when they go off.

The filament is nichrome wire 38-42 gauge on low current. [on homemade units]
30-32 gauge on [high current]12 volt starters.
They both glow white hot when proper current for each is provided, over 1000 degrees.
It's just NOT true they won't light BP or other pyrogens.

Actually the low current nichrome wire WILL light BP....very easily. Even the new Talon/Falcon E-matchs sold, are JUST a filament wire...no pyrogen. They just clip on fuse & are low current.

Screen Shot 2015-05-12 at 4.17.13 PM.png Screen Shot 2015-05-12 at 4.15.35 PM.jpg



I have made low current bare wire igniters for BP that work extremely well, as long as they are in direct contact with BP, for ejection purposes. Have even thought of selling them as they would be totally unregulated, BUT if they were not used correctly, every time, did not wish to be in the middle of that.

I have been corrected on the ga of manufactured matches it is 50 ga.
 
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Jim, the wire in standard ematches (.25A no-fire, .6A all-fire) is usually around #50 gauge, and by itself doesn't produce enough heat to ignite BP - or making your own ematches would be easy ;) Some sort of sensitive first-fire must be used - these are the compounds that are most sensitive to handling. Still, as I've said, not all that sensitive.

Ematches are made to fire in series, sometimes in large numbers. No single device can consume too much power or the whole chain fails.
 
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