The cost of rocketry.

I'm going to need better job than working at wally world if I want to fly L2's regularly...

I can easily get behind Coop's rationalization. I don't need to rationalize it but if I did I would use his model. So far I have done very well, each of my rockets have burned more money in motors than I put in the rocket. Well, except for my two new builds but it won't be long and they will be even.

I still get a lot out of g powered launches and mix in a big launch a month. I think the cool part is you get to watch other people burning 100 dollar bills and that is also fun.

Coop ze east germans always rob us our 10s

Coop said:

...

I mean, c'mon... every single thing we invest our intellectual energies, finances, and time into can be destroyed through no fault of our own, and be utterly lost in a fraction of a second. You can do EVERYTHING right, and still have a motor CATO, or have a weak factory ejection charge or "bonus delay," or have the electronics fail, and collect your pieces in a trash bag, sling it over your shoulder with your pride, and shuffle on back to the tent.

...

Later!

--Coop

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This hobby isn't so bad. My other hobby it's combat robotics aka battlebots. There people put there creations into an arena with someone else's creation intending to destroying them. On the low end a small robot will run $100 (compare to cheaply built lpr) and on the larger higher end I've seen them reach $75k. And over the course of a weekend we throw them in the arena 5 or 10 times, each time beating the crap out of them and then frantically replacing whatever broke in time for the next match.

Every now and then you need to put up an Alpha or a Bertha on a C motor and re-live your first time.

See, this is why it's fun to build minimum diameter 18mm rockets (LoL)...
I can love building and flying my little rockets, love building and flying my level 1 rockets, and LOVE watching others fly multi hundred/thousand dollar projects. When I'm an old fart, maybe I'll do a level 3. Or when my book sells thousands of copies. Until then, I build and launch what I like and what I want and what I can afford.
For me, it's also trade offs. Sometimes I'll launch 5/6 small rockets at a launch. But I can have just as much fun launching two H or I motors at a single launch.
I'm getting ready to launch for level 2, and after that, I'll launch it maybe once a year. But I'll be a level 2, and that's kinda fun to say, even if it only means anything to rocketeers... Everyone else looks at me sideways.

Coop said:

Say, for example, I built this rocket--and going by these bizarre calculations, I spent, Oh, I dunno... $1200. That's an up-front investment to get me onto the pad. Then, let's say each motor runs $200. Thus, after flight six, I broke even. Now SOME disparaging malcontents might claim "falsehood," there, saying, in fact, that after flight six, I was into the rocket for a whopping $2400 (which is, of course, crazytalk). See, they're looking at it from a slant. At first, I pay the rocket. Then, once we start flying, the rocket pays me.

I'm telling you, gentlemen, RATIONALIZE.

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That's not rationalizing. It's calculating your Return On Investment (ROI).

-- Roger

Rrwjr said:

Hold on there just a minute- all of my rockets fly Topflight. Never have I had a chute failure, or rough landing that wasn't induced by me doing something wrong. They offer various styles, are reasonable in cost and Gary and his wife are great people. I'm sure there are many, many, many, people here who will agree with me. Maybe you hit a nerve for me, but for many of us and many of the manufacturers who use top flight chutes -top flight is like family. You like military surplus great- don't go slinging a well respected name in the Rocketry business as inferior because you buy a particular chutes cheaper on the surplus circuit. I attend many launches LPR, MPR, and HPR and I think it's less than a coincidence that you see Top flight chutes and reacon chutes- also made by Top flight more than anything else. I have yet to see an "x" type chute or reacon style chute on the military surplus market so let's make sure your comparing apples to apples for what your needs are, to where you fly and what you fly before throwing out a statement that something works better than anything from Top flight.

Sorry for throwing thread off topic. Not a big fan of seeing rocketry vendors names used negatively unless they have wronged someone by taking there cash and not delivering.

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+1 for sure,,,
I fly Top Flight all the time...
I love em....
Great selection,,, Different chutes for different purposes...
Great bang for the buck,,,
Great chutes...
I've had failures,,, when I screw something up...lol...

Teddy

The cost? Expensive.

As much or as little as you choose to spend.


TA

Two years ago when I got back into rocketry, it seemed like the prices had gone up quite a bit since my last go-around with rocketry --- and that was just for LPR! I was thinking the prices for A - C black powder motors had gotten astronomical! Then I started flying D and E motors and that seemed expensive. At some point I thought about it and decided that compared to other luxuries my wife and I indulge in, like the occasional nice restaurant, rocketry at that level was actually not that expensive. I made peace with it and decoded it was a pretty affordable hobby.

Well, since then I've gotten into MPR, then L1 HPR, and now moving in on L2... It's starting to look expensive again.

I added up my spreadsheet of the rocketry purchases I made I started keeping it 2 summers ago).

NEVER AGAIN.

(BTW.... about $1200, when I include all of the stuff I sold to make money, including calendars).

It's all relative. I spend much more each month on cable/internet/VoIP/cellphone than on rocketry.

Try to measure the cost of most things I buy in terms of a tank of gas to put things into perspective. Bottled water costs more than gasoline. Just saying.

o1d_dude said:

It's all relative. I spend much more each month on cable/internet/VoIP/cellphone than on rocketry.

Try to measure the cost of most things I buy in terms of a tank of gas to put things into perspective. Bottled water costs more than gasoline. Just saying.

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That's part of the reason I don't drink bottled water, or even filtered water like from Brita or other filtration. By the time you pay for the filters its just as expensive as bottle water, and the 16oz water bottles aren't even good for water rockets anymore they are so thin.

But your right Kit, many things in our daily lives that we don't REQUIRE to survive are more expensive than our hobbies. My L2 project will be my last HPR bird for a while, mainly I'm planning to stick with MPR and LPR because I can do a lot more flying.

o1d_dude said:

It's all relative. I spend much more each month on cable/internet/VoIP/cellphone than on rocketry.

Try to measure the cost of most things I buy in terms of a tank of gas to put things into perspective. Bottled water costs more than gasoline. Just saying.

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Exactly right. I remember working on my L1 rocket for a month trying to fit an aeropac retainer that I HAD to have, into my budget. Now I put one one on all my rockets. That $20 motor was huge! My budget has changed right along with my perspective.
I won't be quoting my current cost on the rockets I build, but a tank of gas for our tow truck (which holds 76 gallons) is nothing compared to the motors I burn now.

blackbrandt said:

I added up my spreadsheet of the rocketry purchases I made I started keeping it 2 summers ago).

NEVER AGAIN.

(BTW.... about $1200, when I include all of the stuff I sold to make money, including calendars).

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I'm planning on flying my Deuce98 at NSL in 2 weeks. Look up the price of the 2 CTI M1790 Skidmarks that I have for it :wink:

I wonder how may rocketry vendors make and sell stuff so they can afford the hobby... :wink:

ThirstyBarbarian said:

Well, since then I've gotten into MPR, then L1 HPR, and now moving in on L2... It's starting to look expensive again.

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My neighbor saw me painting my screech the other day. We got talking about rocketry, and he's the typical 70 year old without a clue. He asked what things cost and he looks at me flabberghasted and says "Well Dave, you can't be doing thing like that anymore, you've got 4 kids to raise!"

Really? I've got two harleys in the garage, enough guns and ammo to invade cuba twice, I stopped counting folding knives, and I don't want to count the fixed blades...or axes....or machetes..... Not penis waving here....but he's seen all these things. Never a word sideways about any of it. But the idea of a 1,000 dollar rocket? OMG you're totally out of your mind! What kind of parent are you?

:/

cerving said:

I wonder how may rocketry vendors make and sell stuff so they can afford the hobby... :wink:

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more like, I wonder how many vendors make and sell stuff so they don't have the time to fly anything....

ThirstyBarbarian said:

True. At least I thought so before I got into high power. Now maybe the gap is narrowing.

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If the gap is narrowing; then you need even faster cars and faster women.
And by faster women I don’t mean Olympic Track Stars.

Buckeye said:

Sure, these can all be obtained by scrounging around Home Depot, the garbage can, and construction sites. However, it also comes at a price: Your time. If time is a valuable commodity in your life, then the $300 purchase is a bargain.

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taiwanluthiers said:

in that case just buy a ready to fly kit... forget building.

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Time spent on building is worth the "price" because building is the hobby. (Well, and flying.) But dumpster diving for parts is not a hobby, at least not for most of us. So Buckeye is quite right that in deciding on what to buy and what to make the value of one's time is a factor. Recognizing that and buying subassemblies like harnesses and AV bays is not tantamount to buying ready to fly rockets. If one enjoys assembling the rocket from major components but doesn't enjoy the lower level then by all means one should buy subassemblies. If one enjoys building every little bit from raw materials, then one reaps the benefit of lower monetary cost as well; feel free to gather the ore and smelt the iron to make your eye bolts.

markkoelsch said:

What is not reasonable is to go into debt for a hobby. I am not talking a credit card shot that takes a couple months to pay off- I am taking a loan from a bank to build a rocket. I have heard of this- a person taking a second mortgage to build a large rocket. Sorry, but I think that is foolishness.

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Why? How many people do you know that took a loan to buy a ski boat, or a large sport fishing boat, a snowmobile, a ATV, a 4x4 for rock climbing? My cousin spends $20K every time he blows a motor in his late model stock car and that doesn't include the $100s he spend on gas, tires, etc for each night at the local dirt track.

I don't think it is unreasonable to go into debt to fund a hobby. A lot of people do it all the time. What would make that unreasonable is if they couldn't pay off the debt. I consider RV camping a hobby and I'll certainly won't be paying cash for my next RV, I'll take a loan. But I won't take a loan I can't afford. Taking a loan to get the big L3 rocket built isn't really unreasonable when you look at what people do with other hobbies. What sucks is when the thing crashes or CATOs and you're left with nothing but the loan to pay off instead of a large rocket to fly for many years. I don't think Allstate will insure your L3 rocket for lawndarts.

Handeman said:

Why? How many people do you know that took a loan to buy a ski boat, or a large sport fishing boat, a snowmobile, a ATV, a 4x4 for rock climbing? My cousin spends $20K every time he blows a motor in his late model stock car and that doesn't include the $100s he spend on gas, tires, etc for each night at the local dirt track.

I don't think it is unreasonable to go into debt to fund a hobby. A lot of people do it all the time. What would make that unreasonable is if they couldn't pay off the debt. I consider RV camping a hobby and I'll certainly won't be paying cash for my next RV, I'll take a loan. But I won't take a loan I can't afford. Taking a loan to get the big L3 rocket built isn't really unreasonable when you look at what people do with other hobbies. What sucks is when the thing crashes or CATOs and you're left with nothing but the loan to pay off instead of a large rocket to fly for many years. I don't think Allstate will insure your L3 rocket for lawndarts.

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You and I disagree about this. I think going into substantial debt for a hobby is foolish, and would never do it. I am a patient man, and if it takes me a long time to acquire things so be it. If I can never have certain things so be it.

I think going into debt for toys in general is irresponsible. I think the average income person having all these toys is a bit crazy. I would ask how many months of your families normal expenditures you could sustain without any income? If you can do 6-12 months then you might be ok to do it.

I grew up with a frugal Dad. Even as his working years went on and he was doing well he was much more a saver than a spender. I hope to get back to that once my daughter is out of daycare.

Debt can be a useful tool when managed well. The well is the trick- most people have far too much debt in the Unites States.

Considering loan rates are much better than most credit card rates.... I wouldn't see it as irresponsible if you had a large project you really wanted to do. Sure saving is better, but if you don't want to wait and can stomach the interest go for it.

When I first graduated from college I had a lot of student loans and little stuff so I had to get some credit cards just to be able to buy stuff for my apartment. Sad to say it took 6 months before I could even afford to buy a vacuum cleaner. After a year my old car died and I needed to get another - with a loan. I developed the thought that I will always be in debt, so why not have debt so long as I could make the minimum payments? I did not go out and start buying real luxury items (no boats, campers, etc) but I did not worry about whether I could really afford it or not - just what was the impact on my minimum payment.

Then I started looking at how much I was paying in interest charges. And I got married to a frugal woman. Bottom line - I started thinking "do I really need that?" Cleaned up my act and got my credit card and loan debt down.

So, 30 years after I graduated I still have debt. The house is just about paid for, but I did recently get a new car via a loan, and I will probably be assisting my son who graduates college this weekend with some of his student loan debt (especially since I had to co-sign for some of that debt). I am lucky enough to be able to pay off my credit cards every month.

I went through the "I'm willing to be in debt" to "I need to minimize/eliminate my debt"

I can see both sides - if it is just occasional, short term debt to get that super - duper L3 rocket and you can truly afford the payments, then why not?
A little debt is not bad. In fact, you need some debt to have a good credit rating!

I would be totally against the concept to spend money or take out new debt for a hobby if it put you into the position "do I pay my mortgage or my rocket loan" or "do I pay my loan or eat?" If you get yourself into that position, then you are a true addict.....

markkoelsch said:

I think going into debt for toys in general is irresponsible. I think the average income person having all these toys is a bit crazy.

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Those two statements are only barely related. It's really a matter of what one means by "able to afford." If I can stretch my budget to get the toys but that keeps me from saving for things like a rainy day or my children's college costs, then it's irresponsible in my opinion. If I can buy the things I ought to be I think buying and save the amount I ought to be saving and still buy the toys then buying them is fine.

Buying with debt simply adds to the total cost. If I can afford even that increased cost (and still do the things I ought to be doing) then that's fine too, so long as I am aware of the added cost and spend it mindfully.

I figured some would take my comments negatively, and I was right. That is fine as I said what I meant.

We all think differently about money. Doing what you think is responsible is what you should do. I will do the same.

I am done with this thread.

markkoelsch said:

I figured some would take my comments negatively, and I was right. That is fine as I said what I meant.

We all think differently about money. Doing what you think is responsible is what you should do. I will do the same.

I am done with this thread.

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A lot times these threads seem to wander off on their own after awhile. But I think most people got your point -- the rocket kit is just the tip of the iceberg.

My only goal in starting the thread was to answer the question for myself: if I buy this $100 rocket, how much am I really spending? Didn't mean to start a spend/don't spend war!

Listing out everything you spend on a rocket build is sort of like adding the calories on the menu, takes all the fun out of it.

Not to mention if it's hanging in a tree and you remember your cost list.....