fast madcow nike smoke 4

While not yet fully committed, I am fairly sure that I am going to try to build a Madcow Nike Smoke 4 rapid style for a group launch on K2045 motors in two weeks.

Are there any tips or tricks I should know before attempting to build this kit quickly? I read it could be done fast, but all adjectives are relative.

How big motors have people stuffed into these? The group is doing 54mm4G but I have 5G cases and am usually eager to cram 6XL in too.

Does it seriously not have any form of motor retention? Why would Madcow not include their simple plate with threaded insert retainer, or is that not a great idea for 54mm motors and up?

The K2045 is always a crowd favorite, well except for those that complain about the burn time. I am guessing that you already watched the K2045 videos on youtube, if not watch them. A pair of mirror clips will work great as a retainer if you want to go the cheap route.

Yes, it is true that Madcow does not include a motor retainer. I have plans to put a CTI L265 in my 4" Patriot someday. I would be tempted to do the build with Rocketpoxy and send it up. Should be able to get it together in a day.

Ah...the famous Dairy Aire Nike Drag Race.

I remember it well.

Looking forward to seeing it again this year.

I've done it in 5minutes 46 seconds, and still came in second. That darn Eric C. beat me by 30 seconds. Next closest teams were 15 minutes behind, after that hours behind. They were clueless, Eric had done it before also...you have to think & build like a Nascar tire changing team. Everyone has a specific job to do. 2 or 3 at most for efficiency , any more and your on top of one another.

2 Tips...ain't giving you all of them!@#$# LOL

1. foam is your friend..don't wast time with epoxy. I guy mixes...one guys pours. Foam the fins in. tack in place with CA.

2. before you start build....put closure on empty motor case. Insert into MM tube. Mark top where case comes out motor mount. draw ring around case with magic marker. Now wrap several wraps of masking tape around motor case at the line..when time comes to insert motor. Put reload into case....leave rear closure off.

Drop motor in from top of motor mount......then screw on rear closure....motor can't come out back! fast & stoooopid simple. With a little thought, practice/dry run before speed build starts and you will smoke the other teams. Your rocket will laugh at any motor you put in it!

If you really know what your doing....stack all the fins....drill 2--- 1/4 holes through....one rear one front near root bottom,and wire tie fins on MM tube first before inserting them into airframe.. and foam They well never,,ever,,,,,ever come out! You do all 3 at once to save time.

You can really kill them if you cheat and use the K-740 [?] C-star with Boron or thermite igniter. You will come out of the hole just as fast as the V-max's[or faster if you know how to dope igniter] and beat them on the top end with the correct weight, due to longer burn time and thrust. Sim it and pre-figure weight, then use quick links on the NC to add the weight if needed instantly! OOOPs looks like I gave you more than 2 tips...Hmmmmm which ones do I delete? :dark:

Here's my Jart [red in middle obviously, against V-max on left and another 4 grain white thunderon right] I used white thunder.
I'm gone ahead of V-max and the other load like mine is just starting to come up to pressure. Mine was 1 lb. heavier than the other 2.
Doped motor starters are your friend!!!!





PS: remove the BP pellet from front grain [if there is one] when using doped igniters or risk over-pressurizing your motor and blowing up!!!

Wait.... did you just say you built a full HPR rocket in 6 MINUTES!?!?!?!?!??

watermelonman said:

While not yet fully committed, I am fairly sure that I am going to try to build a Madcow Nike Smoke 4 rapid style for a group launch on K2045 motors in two weeks.

Are there any tips or tricks I should know before attempting to build this kit quickly? I read it could be done fast, but all adjectives are relative.

How big motors have people stuffed into these? The group is doing 54mm4G but I have 5G cases and am usually eager to cram 6XL in too.

Does it seriously not have any form of motor retention? Why would Madcow not include their simple plate with threaded insert retainer, or is that not a great idea for 54mm motors and up?

Click to expand...

I think standard procedure is to add around 5 Lbs or so of nose weight to keep the G loading <50 G to prevent shredding. Normally they fly around 6-7K, apogee deploy, motor eject. While a 6XL would rock you have to fly a K2045 as part of the race. Igniter modifications might be allowed, not sure.

blackbrandt said:

Wait.... did you just say you built a full HPR rocket in 6 MINUTES!?!?!?!?!??

Click to expand...

Under 6.......5 min 46 sec. Yes....several times. Bear in mind no altimeter bay, flown motor eject.

Normal building, I once did 2 Ultimate Wildman's.... 1- 3in Wildman....1 Super Gizmo...1-4in Wildman, 5 high power rockets.
All with altimeter bays, all loaded with chutes and gear, all painted in 5 days.




oh almost forgot ....and that BIG one with the 6in. hole with 3 -54's in the back ground. That added 5 more days [ for the 28ft... 275lb....12in diameter Mega]



They all flew...still are. The first 5 no help did all by myself....mostly at night, cause the real project was the big one done in 10 days! LOL

WARNING: don't try this at home with out adult supervision.
Disclaimer: no rockets were harmed, stunt double rockets were provided where needed, by professional's ....:y:

5 minutes and 46 seconds. Crazy Jim is crazy.

SCrocketfan said:

I think standard procedure is to add around 5 Lbs or so of nose weight to keep the G loading <50 G to prevent shredding. Normally they fly around 6-7K, apogee deploy, motor eject. While a 6XL would rock you have to fly a K2045 as part of the race. Igniter modifications might be allowed, not sure.

Click to expand...

Oh that talk is for the post race life of this rocket.

watermelonman said:

Oh that talk is for the post race life of this rocket.

Click to expand...

K1440 seems perfect for this rocket for a nice fast, scale launch...

That is too funny . . . and sounds like a good contest, but with experts like you, I'd have fun just watching.

blackjack2564 said:

I've done it in 5minutes 46 seconds, and still came in second. That darn Eric C. beat me by 30 seconds. Next closest teams were 15 minutes behind, after that hours behind. They were clueless, Eric had done it before also...you have to think & build like a Nascar tire changing team. Everyone has a specific job to do. 2 or 3 at most for efficiency , any more and your on top of one another.

2 Tips...ain't giving you all of them!@#$# LOL

1. foam is your friend..don't wast time with epoxy. I guy mixes...one guys pours. Foam the fins in. tack in place with CA.

2. before you start build....put closure on empty motor case. Insert into MM tube. Mark top where case comes out motor mount. draw ring around case with magic marker. Now wrap several wraps of masking tape around motor case at the line..when time comes to insert motor. Put reload into case....leave rear closure off.

Drop motor in from top of motor mount......then screw on rear closure....motor can't come out back! fast & stoooopid simple. With a little thought, practice/dry run before speed build starts and you will smoke the other teams. Your rocket will laugh at any motor you put in it!

If you really know what your doing....stack all the fins....drill 2--- 1/4 holes through....one rear one front near root bottom,and wire tie fins on MM tube first before inserting them into airframe.. and foam They well never,,ever,,,,,ever come out! You do all 3 at once to save time.

You can really kill them if you cheat and use the K-740 [?] C-star with Boron or thermite igniter. You will come out of the hole just as fast as the V-max's[or faster if you know how to dope igniter] and beat them on the top end with the correct weight, due to longer burn time and thrust. Sim it and pre-figure weight, then use quick links on the NC to add the weight if needed instantly! OOOPs looks like I gave you more than 2 tips...Hmmmmm which ones do I delete? :dark:

Here's my Jart [red in middle obviously, against V-max on left and another 4 grain white thunderon right] I used white thunder.
I'm gone ahead of V-max and the other load like mine is just starting to come up to pressure. Mine was 1 lb. heavier than the other 2.
Doped motor starters are your friend!!!!

View attachment 262196



PS: remove the BP pellet from front grain [if there is one] when using doped igniters or risk over-pressurizing your motor and blowing up!!!

Click to expand...

So I did not build it in a race, but fairly quickly by gluing a new piece before and after work each day for about a week. I built it Wildman style with injected fillets. Here is the action, starting with the retainer and aft centering ring -

Aft centering ring marked with body slots then fins tacked with CA -

Motor mount installed and attaching fins at the roots -

I do like the new black fiberglass, but being able to see inside while working was a nice feature -

Fins attached, start injecting -

External fillets -

I did not want to seal off the nose with a payload bay so I sunk in a bolt for attachment. Here is an extender nut connecting an eye bolt to threaded rod for the skinny tip length of the Nike Smoke, hanging for drying after some JB Weld. I did not bother gluing the bottom nuts and washer, knowing they would be below the surface of an epoxy pour.

Tough to see, but that washer is below the surface of still liquid epoxy and should be quite secure when dry -

nice job on the nose cone

I saw it fly in the October Skies drag race, thought I heard that yours came in second? Do you remember which pad you were on? The thread never really finished though. Flown it any times other than the K2045 drag race? Did you end up adding any extra nose weight? You mention 6GXLs but AFAICT that size is all plugged motors, have you thought about how you'd put electronics in this rocket?

I just ordered one in the sale today, so I'll hopefully have one for the next drag race.

woferry said:

I saw it fly in the October Skies drag race, thought I heard that yours came in second? Do you remember which pad you were on? The thread never really finished though. Flown it any times other than the K2045 drag race? Did you end up adding any extra nose weight? You mention 6GXLs but AFAICT that size is all plugged motors, have you thought about how you'd put electronics in this rocket?

I just ordered one in the sale today, so I'll hopefully have one for the next drag race.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I have a tendency to let these peter after making it airworthy. Avionics and paint jobs are rarely documented. Flights I usually post in the appropriate launch event discussion.

Oh yes, I have flow it many times. It is one of my standards. That drag race, yes I think I got second and I was one to the left of the winner. I have not yet tried 6XL motors but they should fit better than the Punisher I have crammed them into. I gave it electronics right off the bat, because I do not trust vmax or W9 delays. I have been through a few iterations first with a loose project box, which was too loose, and eventually a length of PVC fitted to threaded rod in the nose and capped by the standard bulk plate. The charges are run out with wire through a hole and sit loose by the motor. I would be happy to show you next time we are at a launch together, which hopefully will be Saturday!

Hmm.. this build looks strangely familiar.

Perhaps I'll have to pickup a Madcow 4" Nike Smoke NC.

A high powered rocket built in under 6 minutes....impressive