Rockets in Carry On Bags?

I'm flying with two TARC teams in a couple of weeks, and we need to get our rockets to Northern Virginia. Has anyone here had recent experience carrying rockets on? I don't want to entrust the rockets to the tender mercies of the baggage or FedEx apes. Obviously no motors, and everything will be pulled apart so it's easy to look inside.

Since I'm flying with the teacher and 5 kids, my thinking was that I would tell the TSA agent who checks ID and boarding pass that we are part of a rocketry competition and we have a box with rockets, no motors or explosives. I'd ask if they wanted to just go direct to hand inspection and skip the x-ray or go through x-ray first. If they do want to do a more thorough look, that's what arriving early and sending the kids on ahead is for.

Any advice or experience?

Thanks in advance!

No experience, but it seems to me that if there are several of you, and you are part of a big organization like TARC, you should be able to call the airline and ask them the best procedure. Also, contact other TARC teams, and even NAR. The International Space Modeling Competition has got to have dealt with this question. You are probably a phone call or two away from an answer.

Carry-on has various issues.

Best to use Checked Baggage.

Flew last year with rockets in carry on luggage. No problems whatsoever. Also put an extra one in checked luggage with no difficulties.

We did tell the TSA agents what was in the carry on luggage. They just shrugged and went about their business. Apparently cardboard is not one of their targets.

doug_kosty said:

Flew last year with rockets in carry on luggage. No problems whatsoever. Also put an extra one in checked luggage with no difficulties.

We did tell the TSA agents what was in the carry on luggage. They just shrugged and went about their business. Apparently cardboard is not one of their targets.

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agreed, they omly want to know if you have motors

Just recently returned from Australia.

Carry on contained 3in payload, av-bay-NC complete with installed altimeters, batteries etc.
Along with tracker & receivers.

Checked baggage contained motor cases.

I went through 3 domestic airports here [USA] & 3 in Oz. [2 international]

No issues in carry on. I was asked to open once, they were more interested in the tracker/radio.
I was randomly picked for the explosives sniffer twice......once in US...once in OZ.
I mentioned BP residue may be on Av-bay. Inspector informed my that was a non-issue, as the sniffer was looking for chemical compounds pre-exploded, not residues from after. That I was surprised with!

TSA had opened checked .baggage twice to inspect.....I suspect that was due to a metal motor case 29in long that looked like a p@pe b@mb to an X-ray machine.
If you do use checked baggage, be sure to use TSA approved locking straps....they have keys for those & things go seamlessly.

All in all no issues in traveling with rockets domestic & international.

A friend brought a complete 4in rocket in his checked baggage , from Florida to OZ also no problems.

The TSA doesn't give a crap about cardboard. Take off the nose cones and you'll be fine. No motors!

I fly with rockets and rocket kits all the time with no issues (other than trying to make sure they get to their destinations unscathed).

I've also shipped rockets with no issues, but I have a system in place to pack them correctly and mark the box in such a way as to deter rough handling.

FC

Thanks for everyone's experiences. I took the very good advice and sent in an email to TSA. They replied pretty quickly and said it shouldn't be an issue. My only gripe is that they didn't put my question at the top of the reply form, so I can't print it out to show the people at the checkpoint.

One other big piece of advice.

For the trip, bring a back-issue of Sport Rocketry Magazine that has TARC coverage in it.

That way, it can help to explain what those are for, and that you are going to the TARC finals (maybe also have some more personal documentation with you that indeed the Teams you are mentoring are going to this year's finals).

I always try to do that on my airline trips when taking rockets with me (occasionally forget due to the mad rush to pack everything else).

And I second the recommendation for using TSA-approved Locks so that TSA can open the locks if they want to check, using TSA master keys. I have an old-style suitcase that has a built-in combination lock..... I have the combo number written on the outside so TSA can open it (and they often do)

blackjack2564 said:

Just recently returned from Australia.

Carry on contained 3in payload, av-bay-NC complete with installed altimeters, batteries etc.
Along with tracker & receivers.

Checked baggage contained motor cases.

I went through 3 domestic airports here [USA] & 3 in Oz. [2 international]

No issues in carry on. I was asked to open once, they were more interested in the tracker/radio.
I was randomly picked for the explosives sniffer twice......once in US...once in OZ.
I mentioned BP residue may be on Av-bay. Inspector informed my that was a non-issue, as the sniffer was looking for chemical compounds pre-exploded, not residues from after. That I was surprised with!

TSA had opened checked .baggage twice to inspect.....I suspect that was due to a metal motor case 29in long that looked like a p@pe b@mb to an X-ray machine.
If you do use checked baggage, be sure to use TSA approved locking straps....they have keys for those & things go seamlessly.

All in all no issues in traveling with rockets domestic & international.

A friend brought a complete 4in rocket in his checked baggage , from Florida to OZ also no problems.

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Interesting. After seeing another thread not-so-long-ago about a similar topic ("Would motor residue on a bag that was at the range with me set off the chemical sniffer?"), I asked a relative that actually works for one of the companies that makes some of the equipment. Specifically, his job is field maintenance of the sniffers and the baggage x-ray machines.

His take was that, purely from a technical/chemical standpoint, burned motor residue, burned gunpowder residue (BP or smokeless, I asked him about both as, since some of you know, I shoot guns as well as rockets), fresh motor residue, fresh powder residue, etc ... will all set the sniffer off. Of course, there is a difference in how it reads, but the sniffer will still detect it.

Now, if TSA is happy to ignore burnt residue, then that's one tiny positive point that I can grant them ...

I used to travel to NARAM with rockets in my checked baggage, but now I typically ship them ahead. I had a trunk that I'd pack my models in, cushioned with styrofoam peanuts. My main concern now is that if the TSA decide they want to open up the trunk, there's no way that they're going to be as careful putting everything back in as I was packing it in the first place. Plus, with the baggage fees in place now, it's almost the same cost anyway.

I have had to carry on some models - usually my scale model wasn't ready in time to ship with the rest of them, or I didn't want to risk it getting damaged in transit. I'll carry the sub-assemblies in a plastic toolbox and do the final assembly on site. I only had an issue one time (pre-9/11) when I had packed the plastic nose cone full of clay for stability and it showed up as a big dark blob on the X-ray machine. After a quick look at the model, I was on my way. Usually, the box goes through the machine without any comments or questions.

Here's the report from the field. Short answer: three rockets and a range box (no motors) went through the scanners with nary a look inside.

Long answer: I'm not sure what TSA is doing out there. The rockets were broken down into fin cans and payload bays. [edit] It didn't really surprise me that TSA didn't want to see those. [/edit] I was pretty surprised that the range box didn't merit a hand inspection, what with a few altimeters, batteries, motor casings, ballast washers, and spare starters all kicking around the box. The only sketchy-looking thing we were missing was the synthetic eggs (silly putty and washers wrapped in plastic wrap to make a non-biodegradable "egg" at 58 grams). I decided not to bring that since it might get me arrested.

Outbound, one student was stopped to empty a laptop from the bag. Inbound, a couple were stopped at the x-ray because they had stuff in their pockets. A commercial water bottle (still factory sealed) was abandoned as well. Good thing we're safe from rogue bottled water. Who knows what could happen if that fell into the wrong hands.

PS At a recent company training session, one of the guys from Alaska said he got stopped by TSA because he had gunshot residue on his hands. The agent asked if he had fired a gun recently. The guy said he didn't know if the TSA agent was new there, but just about everyone in Alaska has a gun and shoots it regularly. Apparently, boarding proceeded without incident.

boatgeek said:

Here's the report from the field. Short answer: three rockets and a range box (no motors) went through the scanners with nary a look inside.

Long answer: I'm not sure what TSA is doing out there. The rockets were broken down into fin cans and payload bays. [edit] It didn't really surprise me that TSA didn't want to see those. [/edit] I was pretty surprised that the range box didn't merit a hand inspection, what with a few altimeters, batteries, motor casings, ballast washers, and spare starters all kicking around the box. The only sketchy-looking thing we were missing was the synthetic eggs (silly putty and washers wrapped in plastic wrap to make a non-biodegradable "egg" at 58 grams). I decided not to bring that since it might get me arrested.

Outbound, one student was stopped to empty a laptop from the bag. Inbound, a couple were stopped at the x-ray because they had stuff in their pockets. A commercial water bottle (still factory sealed) was abandoned as well. Good thing we're safe from rogue bottled water. Who knows what could happen if that fell into the wrong hands.

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Always aware of going "too political" ... I think most normal people agree that the TSA is nothing but "security theatre"; the facts are that they have something like an $8 billion annual budget, and they haven't actually accomplished anything.

YodaMcFly said:

Always aware of going "too political" ... I think most normal people agree that the TSA is nothing but "security theatre"; the facts are that they have something like an $8 billion annual budget, and they haven't actually accomplished anything.

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While I think the TSA could be run better, it is non-factual to say that they have not actually accomplished anything. A few have been caught, and others we may not have heard of publicly. Also, ****** who "forget" they are carrying a weapon, they are that irresponsible.

But most important is the deterrence factor, terrorists and others wanting to do evil will not try some things that they know is likely to be found or stopped. Unfortunately that does not mean they won't try to do something else, but it's a heck of a lot harder to do it regarding aircraft, so they tend to try smaller-scale stuff which while also tragic does not involve as many potential victims.

BTW - the "unopened bottle of water" thing, too bad but I agree with it 100%, even though that has meant I've had to get rid of my own (or drink it all up quickly) . Thanks to terrorist attempts in England with liquid explosives (mixing a part A and a Part B to get explosive C), that is what led to the limit of a few ounces of liquids. An "unopened" water bottle (or Coke, or Snapple, whatever).... not exactly rocket science to figure out ways to fake that.

- George Gassaway

It seems that we have different definitions of "success", and as this is not the place to discuss it, I'm going to step away from the conversation.

The TSA Year in Review blog post is worthwhile reading: https://blog.tsa.gov/2015/01/tsa-2014-year-in-review.html. Somewhat sobering in what people try to bring on planes (really, a live hand grenade?!). It's also written well, which is fairly refreshing. I have absolutely no quibble with the metal detectors. I also understand why the bottle of water can't go on. However, they do let you bring in as much liquid as you can stuff into a quart bag (in 3-oz containers) as well as empty aluminum bottles. While there are likely good reasons, I have trouble seeing that as more than theater.

A data point for next year's teams. We had an electronic airbrake system made from an Arduino and various sensor bits; this looks a bit suspicious.

Omaha, NE - rocket carried on by my son. He disassembled it and put it in a plastic tub for scanning. No issues.

Dulles - rocket carried on by my son. Altimeter was still in the nosecone. This worried them and a higher up was called in to give it a once over. The escalation was primarily due to the novelty of a rocket and associated electronics. Three (3) altimeters not in rocket body and 2 disassembled reload casings in a backpack were never a concern. TSA was friendly and willing to listen/work with us. We were asked to separate the rocket to prevent other travelers from becoming concerned.

I know at least two teams couldn't take their rocket on the plane. It sounded like this was more due to the airline and they never reached the security checkpoint.

TLDR: Take your rocket apart, have TARC letter and datasheets for altimeters. As always, arrive early and be patient and respectful. It will go a long ways.


Doug

The team that I heard couldn't take the rocket on the plane got turned down by Southwest at the baggage check counter. We did our best not to engage airline personnel, only TSA. In retrospect, that turned out to be a good decision. The team has a new design criterion for next year--the disassembled pieces can be no longer than 20" so as to fit in a 22" long box for carryon. The testbed rocket we built last summer and brought for a spare in case of disaster was more than that length, although the competition rockets weren't.

I definitely agree with arriving early, being patient, and being respectful. Whatever beef I have with TSA isn't the line agents' fault.