Yaseu FT1DR and BigRedBee GPS work together!

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Viperfixr

Born Again Rocketeer
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I recently saw the Yaesu FT1DR dual band, GPS enabled, APRS decoding handy talkie for under $300 and had to get one. I also got the BigRedBee Beeline GPS 100mw 70cm tx last night and could not wait to test them out. I had heard the FT1DR worked with BigRedbee GPS, but it was a second hand comment from one person. Since I now know they do work together, and the VG-8DR is no longer offered, I thought I would make the search easier for others with this thread. The Yaesu FT1DR is also a lot cheaper than the highly regarded Kenwood TH-D72 ($449 now) right now.

After charging the Beeline GPS up, I plugged it into the BigRedBee software, put in my callsign and a free 70cm band 'beacon' frequency from the local frequency plan. Done & easy. Note: you do need a HAM Technician license or higher to use this--callsign is needed.

Other than configuring the Yaesu for a 1200 baud APRS modem and dialing in the correct frequency in only the B bank (dual band, but only that one is APRS enabled), the rest was automatic. Literally, when you hit the right frequency and the FT1DR detects an APRS packet, it automatically switches to a screen that shows the incoming callsign, the long/lat from the Beeline position, the text from the Beeline (which shows altitude), how far away it is and what direction it is at from the FT1DR--looks pretty easy. A walk around the neigborhood with the FT1DR handheld (aftermarket 'long' antennae) and the Beeline in my backyard on a table showed a great track back to the Beeline whole time--never lost the signal up to 1/4 mile away. After losing the signal, like after a rocket lands, you can easily bring up the last APRS packet and navigate to that point.

The 1200 baud piece took me a little while to figure out, but the rest was easy. I am missing the next launch, but will test this combo in action at our May launch--more to follow.
 
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The VX8DR is a dead end that is a heck of alot more pricey than a D72A. It had a B/T headset option that was hardly worth the cost. The Yaesu stuff is "close ended" meaning you can't directly access the TNC via a computer and use it for packet stuff or graphical mapping with an external laptop. You also cannot interface it to a mapping handheld GPS if you would like to see in realtime where your rocket is headed while in flight. A D72A with a single interface cable into a Garmin Legend, 60Cs, 60CsX (all of which are available used now at reasonable cost) can give one direct, automatic navigation and tracking of your rocket. The Garmin takes the rocket position feed from the radio and directly plots it on the map. Now the VX8GR (now OOP) will output the NMEA waypoints through the same cable that is used with a D72A so one could do realtime graphical tracking with that unit but not many know about this. If you own a VX-8GR all's it takes is the interface cable and a compatible handheld mapping GPS to get a "map in hand".

The FT1DR doesn't have this capability. Now if you just want to manual input the lat/long into your handheld gps to get a last fix, sure the FT1DR will do that but those with the D72/Garmin combo can hit "navigate to" on the Garmin and just watch the map and
scroll to the navigation screen and follow the datum line to the rocket. No muss, no fuss. If you see someone using this combo, you should ask them about it and watch how it works. You'll be impressed.

The cheapest down and dirty, APRS portable tracking solution is a Mobilinkd TNC, https://www.mobilinkd.com/tnc/, interfaced to any radio and an Android device running APRSDroid. If one already has an Android device and plain H/T they're just about there.
Can install the free OSM mapfiles if they need a portable map and though APRSDroid is a kluge for tracking, it is very workable. Doesn't do direct navigation meaning you can't tell it to "take me to the rocket/waypoint" like the Garmin, but one can follow their position on the map to where the last known position of the rocket. You have to "transmit" a position packet from your device to get your icon on the map to "move". Not hard to do.

Yaesu has always been "a little off" with their APRS stuff. The -8R was klutzy to use, the -8DR was very way overpriced for all the options one had to buy to get it to work. (Including to having to pay for an aftermarket computer program to program the frequencies if desired from a computer. KW program is a free download) The VX-8GR I was impressed with as it was quite a bit cheaper than the D72A and it does have the waypoint output so one could interface it to the handheld Garmin units using the same serial cable as used with a D72A/D7A/D7A(g). But................Yaesu stopped making it AND they removed that ability with the FT1DR to "offload" the Waypoint, NMEA $GPWL words to another device.

So yes the Ft1DR will work with the Beeline APRS Tracker. But all that proprietary digital stuff they include is superfluous and useless for tracking.

One caution if you use the 100mW transmitter. Rf can dork recovery electronics/altimeters. Higher powered Rf devices are not necessarily better. P6K's, Adept 22's and Entacore AIM 2 are susceptible to RF interference. God bless Entacore though as they directly state that in the instruction book of the AIM 2 I have and were emphatic about not using it with Rf trackers.

As an aside, I purchased a TeleGPS with the intention of using it with a Kenwood D72A/Garmin 60Cs. For some weird reason this receiving station was not optimal for the TeleGPS. The accuracy was between 100 to 200 feet off as opposed to 10 to 30 feet with the BLGPS. I noticed the TeleGPS was transmitting the APRS data in a "compressed" packet. I then took a Mobilinkd TNC/Android combo and it tracked just fine. I mentioned this to Keith Packard and
he had just come up with a 1.6.0.1 firmware for the TeleGPS and had intended to be able to program the TeleGPS to transmit an "uncompressed" packet. I made the firmware change and the accuracy went back to nominal with the
D72A/Garmin 60Cs combination. I'm one happy camper as the TeleGPS fits in a much smaller space.

Oh, I thought of something else. If tracking with an APRS rig to the last known position of the rocket and the tracker is out of reception range, open the squelch periodically as you are travelling towards the last known position. Many times one can hear a packet coming across but it is not clear enough to be decoded. You'll know the tracker is still functioning and will soon be able to receive a packet that is decoded as the signal strength increases as you get closer. That will be the final position of the downed rocket. (Unless it's being blown across the site by the wind.) You can't do this with a mobilinkd setup though as it's attached through the mic/earphone jacks.

Cripes, I've got to stop thinking. Out of the GPS units above the best one would be a 60CsX. It has a "Sight 'n Go" feature which in and of itself can be very helpful. The 60Cs doesn't have it. It allows one to sight along the GPS unit and lock a navigation line to an object at a distance. This is great if one is tracking visually. For instance I had a rocket launch and drift a heck of a ways away. I picked up my Vista HCX to shoot a line and I lost sight of the rocket. Darn, I proceeded to the end of the corn field to
cross over the road and the land owner dug a 15 foot deep drainage ditch on either side of the road. I made it through the first ditch and didn't dare try to cross over the second. As I was walking parallel to the road, I was looking over to the field where I thought the rocket came down. I thought it was lost, until a gust of wind inflated the 36" chute and picked it up over the stubble for me to see!!! Well I couldn't cross over directly so I shot a line to it with the Vista Hcx and walked a quarter of a mile to the west to cross over. The GPS compensated for my dogleg and kept me pointed in the direction of the downed rocket when I approached it from a different direction. A used 60CsX could be used for APRS and visual tracking. Kurt
 
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For my purposes, the FT1DR does everything I want, and it does it cheaper than the other options for a HAM radio setup. I don't want a computer out at the field (dry lakebed dust and laptops don't mix well), and I'd really rather not have multiple pieces/parts to do one function. An all-in-one device is much better for me--less to charge, configure and worry about. A direction and distance to the last APRS packet location is all I need. Simplicity.

I also have a Yaesu FT-60R and I considered getting the Bluetooth APRS decoder (Mobilinkd ) to enable the Beeline for it. But, that would have meant three devices (radio, decoder, iPhone) to do one function. Yes, certainly cheaper.

As for the 100mw Beeline being too powerful, there's always the option to turn down the power, but the opposite is not true of the 12mw version. For my applications where this will mostly sit inside the nosecone or well away from the av-bay, I think it is not a problem. A little testing may be in order. I usually only fly with the FW Raven, SL100, RRC2+, RRC3 or Marsa54Ls.

There is a "dB output" option where you can set the power level. In fact, doing so extends the battery life, so it really makes sense to configure the power level to the field and circumstances beforehand. I just wanted the higher power option for extra high flights later. I may also get the 12mw version as well for its smaller size.

What is best depends on the person and their requirements. The intent for this thread was just to share that this particular combination seems to work well. There's a lot of Beeline compatibility info with other GPS enabled radios, but hardly any for the FT1DR--just trying to give people another data point to consider.

Oh, I thought of something else. If tracking with an APRS rig to the last known position of the rocket and the tracker is out of reception range, open the squelch periodically as you are travelling towards the last known position. Many times one can hear a packet coming across but it is not clear enough to be decoded. You'll know the tracker is still functioning and will soon be able to receive a packet that is decoded as the signal strength increases as you get closer. That will be the final position of the downed rocket. (Unless it's being blown across the site by the wind.) You can't do this with a mobilinkd setup though as it's attached through the mic/earphone jacks.

Fantastic advice on opening the squelch--I will use that!
 
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Fair enough to desire all-in-one but I have a flat black painted, single handed carrier that can hold a Nexus 7, Mobilinkd and H/T very easily and
can double up and substitute as a carrier for the Nexus 7 and EggFinder LCD receiver. For the D72/Garmin arrangement folks zip tie them to
a ping pong paddle. So the having to go portable with 2 or even 3 devices isn't that hard to work around. The laptop deal, I only use stationary locked in a vehicle to record a flight if I want to and carry the portable for recovery. I suspect
that was the impetus for Altus Metrum to come up with an Android utility.

I caution you don't be flip about Rf power output. I've been burned with on pad deployment of the recovery laundry, apogee deployment on ascent
and have witnessed a total failure of two Adept 22's with an over 100 pound 12" diameter, 16 foot tall project resulting in a ballistic flight. You better believe I load a rocket at home now with bare ematches and turn everything on for about an hour and see if the ematches pop or the electronics reset. Don't assume since it's in the nosecone you won't have a problem. The 12mW Beelines are known to be compatible riding next to a lot of devices but if it is paired with deployment electronics known to have problems, I'd test the daylights out of the installation before flying. Kurt
 
Fair enough to desire all-in-one but I have a flat black painted, single handed carrier that can hold a Nexus 7, Mobilinkd and H/T very easily and
can double up and substitute as a carrier for the Nexus 7 and EggFinder LCD receiver. Kurt

Any recommendations on settings when using the Mobilinkd? For whatever reason, I lose about 1 in every 7 transmitted packets- they don't show up on the screen. The HT is receiving all transmissions from the BRB. I'm using the 70cm 16mW BRB, Mobilinkd 2, Yaesu FT-60, and APRSdroid.
 
Make sure you are using the latest setup program for the Mobilinkd. Another thing you have to realize is lost packets are the nature of rocket tracking are a given even if using something like a D72. On ascent there may be no packets, on descent there are issues with the packet even making it to the receiver. Where I launch, there is two of us using D72's and both of us monitor a particular launch. He has his on bearing and distance and I have mine on the altitude screen to read off the descent.

It's not unusual to miss packets on the descent but we've always been able to call out the main event with the altitude proximity and once the main is out, the packets coming in remain decipherable till touchdown.

I've found with the latest setup program for the Mobilinkd, setting the gain on the unit is much easier now but I do admit, I haven't had the chance to do a side by side comparison between it and a dedicated APRS rig. Kurt
 
Now the VX8GR (now OOP) will output the NMEA waypoints through the same cable that is used with a D72A so one could do realtime graphical tracking with that unit but not many know about this.
The FT1DR doesn't have this capability.

Yes, the FT1D can output NMEA waypoints ($GPWPL in NMEA-0183 format) for the tracked station. In the APRS Set mode, go to setting 17 (COM PORT SETTING) and set the OUTPUT to WAY.P. Check out this video:
[video=youtube;4YLq60WYx5s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YLq60WYx5s"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YLq60WYx5s[/video].

As far as I can tell, the FT1D is a good replacement for the VX8GR. Of course, the digital transmission mode that Yaesu advertises heavily is a complete waste of silicon, but you can safely ignore that and treat it as a regular radio.
 
Yes, the FT1D can output NMEA waypoints ($GPWPL in NMEA-0183 format) for the tracked station. In the APRS Set mode, go to setting 17 (COM PORT SETTING) and set the OUTPUT to WAY.P. Check out this video:

As far as I can tell, the FT1D is a good replacement for the VX8GR. Of course, the digital transmission mode that Yaesu advertises heavily is a complete waste of silicon, but you can safely ignore that and treat it as a regular radio.

Keith, respectfully, that cable arrangement stinks for field work. Tape the parts together and O.K. it is workable. The kiss solution is this
cable type:

https://www.gilsson.com/garmin_gps/cables/rk.htm

Yes it shows it's for a D7 but it works with a D72 AND the VX-8GR has a com port jack that matches this cable. I've checked with -8GR owners and they confirmed to me that this works.

Now, if a one piece easy to carry micro USB cable can be had, post the link because that would be a very good development. Jostle the connections around and there is a risk the system could lockup and need to be reset.

For a laptop monitoring station, the Yaesu cable should work I believe but haven't confirmed it. After doing some tracking for awhile, portable/handheld is best in my book whereas the laptop is better suited for stationary monitoring.

I agree, the digital stuff in the FT1DR is totally useless (but doesn't detract from) APRS tracking. It can be a curious option for one who lives in a major metro area where the repeater base is installed for the digital mode and they want to try it.

I agree at the current time, the FT1DR is the cheapest all-in-one APRS tracker but it's best to have something to put the lat/long in a visual format either automatically or manually into a handheld mapping GPS. Trying to follow the arrow on the little radio display can be difficult.

Kurt
 
I agree at the current time, the FT1DR is the cheapest all-in-one APRS tracker but it's best to have something to put the lat/long in a visual format either automatically or manually into a handheld mapping GPS. Trying to follow the arrow on the little radio display can be difficult.

Yeah, I've practiced a bit and have gotten better, but nothing I've found comes close to a TeleBT with Altos Droid. That's got live voice announcements during flight, and live mapping with google maps for tracking the rocket on the ground. I use APRS mostly as a back-up to that; got good enough to feel confident that if my phone died in the middle of rocket recovery, I'd still be able to find it.
 
Yeah, I've practiced a bit and have gotten better, but nothing I've found comes close to a TeleBT with Altos Droid. That's got live voice announcements during flight, and live mapping with google maps for tracking the rocket on the ground. I use APRS mostly as a back-up to that; got good enough to feel confident that if my phone died in the middle of rocket recovery, I'd still be able to find it.
Once you get the TeleBT back out, I want one. I like that antenna mounting and to have a WiFi only Android device. Can Altos Droid save maps for off grid use too like the computer program can? If so
that would really take the cake for me. Kurt
 
Yes, I added 'offline maps' support recently.

I found that out. Works extremely nicely. Downloaded a pile of maps with a high throughput connection. I like the fact that your products also concurrently send an aprs packet out with your data. Can use an APRS receiving station if one likes to carry portable for the recovery. A dongle can be used at a laptop for recording at the launchsite and one can easily have a portable solution to go on the hunt and be ready to pickup a new packet for the final resting place of the rocket.

I still say if you had a selector on the Tele-BT to decode APRS packets and place them on AltosDroid, you'd sell more than a few to the BeelineGPS users out there. AltosDroid is the only application that will cache offline maps reliably for off internet use.
Plus one can update the maps as time goes on.

APRSDroid has an OSM mapset available for off grid use but it has some quirks for rocket tracking. Kurt Savegnago
 
if you had a selector on the Tele-BT to decode APRS packets and place them on AltosDroid, you'd sell more than a few to the BeelineGPS users out there.

TeleBT is a simple digital receiver; making that decode APRS would be quite a trick.
 
TeleBT is a simple digital receiver; making that decode APRS would be quite a trick.


Darn, I thought it was a pretty complex device crammed into a little space. Nonetheless, having your telemetry send out an APRS packet concurrently is quite something. If a Ham tracker wants a small tracker like the Tele-GPS, they don't have to have a Dongle or Tele-BT to use it to find a rocket. They can use their existing APRS tracking receiving station. If a BeelineGPS is too big for a small rocket, the Tele-GPS is just the ticket. To go smaller one has to
go with the proprietary Marshall Falcon GPS tracker. Kurt Savegnago
 
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