I HATE BIN LADEN !!

I have been playing with sugar propellants off and on for a few yrs. I only want to make smaller sizes ("g" or smaller) so pouring the melted propellant into small molds is a huge hassle to do consistently. I finally discovered a great method that makes great fuel in a dry powder form and it can be dampened with alcohol and rammed with a mallet. Once dry the grains are very hard and it burns better than any iv'e tried using the molten method. But now I CANT BUY ANY FREAKIN PAPER TUBES. I can,t believe that its gotten that bad. I have tried all the pyro supply stores. They either dont ship to canada or they require an explosives permit to buy them. The only option was to buy long lengths and cut them. Not a huge deal except for the insane shipping cost to get here. Seriously an explosives permit to buy small paper tubes? Are they freaking kidding me? So now i,ve got fuel and rockets but no bloody motor tubes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-CARDBO...750?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43c789b5a6

You still have to cut em but he ships to Canada.

The permit requirements for short paper tubes are a result of the CPSC lawsuits against many vendors some years ago - nothing to do with the SEA (Safe Explosives Act). All has to do with "kits" for destructive devices - mostly M-80s.

KO

bill2654 said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-CARDBO...750?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43c789b5a6

You still have to cut em but he ships to Canada.

Click to expand...

The add says does not ship to canada, anyway the shipping for a bundle of long tubes is retarded. Add the us/can exchange its just not sensible.

I actually wish the cti motors had a closed end like the aerotech. I would buy a half dozen pro24 cases and a set of end caps and just pack them into the tubes.

Perhaps you can roll your own? All you need is kraft paper and some glue and a mandrel of appropriate size. I've done that for making blackpowder motors, and it does work.

I did try a couple. The kraft paper i got was way too thin. I tried poster board but it is a fair bit of work to roll and I already have bad wrists(one that no longer bends) so its even harder for me. What i ended up doing was buying a mop with an aluminum handle. The alloy is fairly soft and very lightweight.I just used a pipe cutter to cut it up. The dia is the same as the inner dia of the AT 24/40 i have so I can use it for an adapter or simply wrap a bit of tape around them. It will at least get me to the point of testing my propellant to see how it works under pressure. I still need to make the ramming tool and some igniters before I can test.I will be sure to burry the motors well in earth when testing. My hope is that if ever there is a cato that the clay nozzle will be the safety valve and not the casing.Until im sure of that though it will be well buried motors ignited form a safe distance.

You can actually use the rammer to roll your casing. Try using the kind of kraft paper for mailing stuff in, or the kind in paper sacks.

The really ludicrous dictate of the CPSC is the restriction on heavy walled convolute tubing which is really only suitable for motor casings. M-80s and similar flash powder devices only require thin wall spiral wound tubes to produce the desired effect...a loud report. Any fool can make a suitable tube for this purpose. If you are looking for the absolute best quality convolute wound paper tubing available, contact these people. These tubes are made by the New England Paper Tube Company and there is nothing finer. (Can't help you with the shipping. It's part of the cost of everything.)

https://www.hobbyhorse.com/pyro_tubes.shtml

I think shipping cost are only affected when the length exceeds 30", so what if you ask them to cut it to 20" sections instead?

taiwanluthiers said:

You can actually use the rammer to roll your casing. Try using the kind of kraft paper for mailing stuff in, or the kind in paper sacks.

Click to expand...

I still want to try doing some. Im not sure locally where to get heavier craft paper.If I come across some i will buy it.If I cant get it locally than i,m back to the same problem of paying insane shipping costs.

taiwanluthiers said:

I think shipping cost are only affected when the length exceeds 30", so what if you ask them to cut it to 20" sections instead?

Click to expand...

The shipping from us to canada is insane no matter what it is. I can get stuff from china cheaper than US. I did actually find a place that would sell them to me. It was going to be 10.00 for the tubes and twenty dollars to ship. Then add the exchange on and the extra 2.5 % that CC companies charge for foreign transactions it comes to nearly fifty dollars for fourty tubes.

What about ordering from suppliers in China? I think Aliexpress/Alibaba is full of those suppliers. You may need to buy more than you need however...

It's either that or you'll have to ship to a holdover address in the US and then come over to pick it up.

I tried alliexpress but didnt find anyone selling them. I may have to look further.

Well i was able to locate some heavier paper from the post office. I will try again at rolling my own tubes. The aluminum ones started to bulge just from pounding the nozzles so I,m not even gonna try using them. The alloy is just too soft and thin. Hopefully this paper works because I really am eager to test this propellant.

I don't think aluminum broom handle can take any stress. Make sure the paper is about 4mm thick

taiwanluthiers said:

I don't think aluminum broom handle can take any stress. Make sure the paper is about 4mm thick

Click to expand...

4mm wow thats gonna be a lot of rolling hopefully i get the hang of it quick.

Since you are hand rolling, it's not going to be as strong as NEPT or Estes motor casing... so it should be thick enough to handle the stress of ramming and also pressure from firing. Broom handle tube is barely .5mm thick and so it's not going to be able to handle ramming, much less firing. Also heat will destroy the aluminum weakening it further as it fires. You'll note reloadable motor casing is a lot thicker than broom handle aluminum (I think the 38mm casing is about 2-3mm thick) AND there's a liner that protects the casing. Even Estes motor casing is about 1/8" thick.

Actually metal casing is a real bad idea from the potential to shoot pieces of it when it CATOs.

Im toying with making some kind of rolling device.Since im already handicapped its not something i should do a lot of by hand. I will wait until ive tested the propellant though. I dont expect that it wont work well though. The burn tests ive done with just loose fuel, it ignites and burns way faster than the normal molten/cast sugar fuels. If anything I may need to add something to slow it down a touch.

I rolled a few. Enough to know I suck at it. Its nearly impossible to roll straight with a wrist that doesnt bend.Hopefully they will be good enough for a few tests but I need to figure out another solution to move forward.

Bad wrist isn't helping at all...

The way I do it is saturate the paper completely with wheat paste and just roll around a waxed mandrel. You would then attempt to compress by rolling on a hard surface after wrapping the paper. You want to cover the mandrel in wax paper or something so it doesn't stick. After that you try to remove the paper from the mandrel so it doesn't get stuck on as the paper will shrink.

It would be nice if I could roll them dry and get them nice and snug and straight and then soak them in glue after. Im not sure there is anything that would penetrate well enough.

It won't work that way.

Another way is use gummed tape... they make really good tubes.

taiwanluthiers said:

It won't work that way.

Another way is use gummed tape... they make really good tubes.

Click to expand...

I wanted to try the gummed tape but again i couldnr find it locally. All I can find is the re enforced stuff.Its heavy so the cost of having some shipped is high. Im now wondering about wallpaper. It is fairly heavy and pre glued. I can normaly find it dirt cheap at my local re store. I might be able to cut it on my bandsaw to narrower rolls that are easier to work with.

Have you tried looking at packaging places? Gum tapes are used for taping boxes together, and if they have the reinforced stuff they should have the non reinforced stuff. However it seems your problem isn't length because gum tapes do not take up much space compared to 30" long tubes. If you're going to use wallpaper you might as well use regular copier paper.

Yes i have looked at the office supply stores. so far all i can find is the re enforced kind.I was thinking about wallpaper because its heavier than regular paper and pre glued. I would have to cut it down though because the wide rolls are a problem for me.Its looking more and more like i,m either gonna have to pay the insane shipping price to buy tubes or give up all together.

Problem is the pattern on the wallpapers would make for a weak tube...

Yes i would need plain flat wall paper.The stuff I find at the re store is typically very old so its normally just plain non embossed paper with ink patterns.It my not work but I can get it for around 2:00 a roll so its not a huge loss to try. The part that concerns me with heavier paper is you never get a perfectly round tube due to the hump where the edge of the paper is. I have one more place to try for carton tape. If they dont have it they may be able to get it and I wouldnt have to pay the shipping.

If you ever find out a way to get anything shipped to you for nothing, do let us all know how you did it. :cyclops:

tmacklin said:

If you ever find out a way to get anything shipped to you for nothing, do let us all know how you did it. :cyclops:

Click to expand...

Dont recall saying i wanted it shipped for nothing.