Mid Power 1 Mile Mach 1?

madcow rocketry
Onebadhawk
the model rocket show
The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
dhkaiser

dhkaiser

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
413
Reaction score
11
I have a friend who says some day he would like to fly at Mach 1 and 1 mile. Can it be done mid power? If so what is the smallest motor/rocket combo?
 
dhkaiser said:
Ah but that is high power. Certainly small though!
Click to expand...

I keep forgetting that some of the G motors are technically considered HP according to NFPA.

Generally it is sliced up as LP = A to D, MP = E-G and HP = H-O, but I am not sure how official that is. Although I have watched some YouTube videos of guys launching hobby motors in the "Q" range, and there is a Hybrid R 10,000 video as well, but not 100% where those motors fit into the general classification.
 
From what I've seen, mach 1 is just barely achievable with a D21 or D24 in an optimized 18mm airframe. As for a mile, a CTI 24mm G or an Aerotech 29mm G in a min diameter rocket should get to just about a mile if everything is optimized. Finding it is another story...

Nate
 
Nate, good points. Perhaps I should have said recoverable? Meaning tracking equipped?
 
dhkaiser said:
Nate, good points. Perhaps I should have said recoverable? Meaning tracking equipped?
Click to expand...

Thanks, a BRB RDF tracker will fit in a 29mm tube, and that's about $85 with a battery, etc. A long, long mylar streamer and a couple spoons of tracking powder on a clear, windless day should help you get a 29mm MD back. but that's still a long shot.

Nate
 
The largest motor you can run in mid power is the G80. But keep in mind that it may not be the best choice for what you're trying to do. OpenRocket is the best way to sim it out and find the optimal config for that rocket.

Mid power is Ę-G motors. Without an L1 cert, you cannot fly motors with an average newton rating of more than 80. Therefore, the G80 is the max.
 
Kruegon said:
The largest motor you can run in mid power is the G80. But keep in mind that it may not be the best choice for what you're trying to do. OpenRocket is the best way to sim it out and find the optimal config for that rocket.

Mid power is Ę-G motors. Without an L1 cert, you cannot fly motors with an average newton rating of more than 80. Therefore, the G80 is the max.
Click to expand...

G80? not quite. thats 137 N/s CTI G54 is 159 N/s https://www.thrustcurve.org/motorsearch.jsp?id=880
 
dhkaiser said:
I have a friend who says some day he would like to fly at Mach 1 and 1 mile. Can it be done mid power? If so what is the smallest motor/rocket combo?
Click to expand...

Should be able to achieve both goals with the same "Mid-Power" rocket - but not both at the same time.

Your friend should check out the Apogee Aspire - specifically designed for these two goals >> https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket_Kits/Skill_Level_2_Kits/Aspire_Rocket_Kit

My personal goal this year is to break Mach and go a Mile high on the same flight. I'm planing something a bit bigger than the Aspire and plan to use a "J" motor.
 
the G80 is not the largest motor under 80 N of average trust. The Aerotech G-80 is 136N total, an Aerotech G75J as 157 N total and a CTI G54-RL 160 N total.
 
Your best option would probably be the CTI 24mm 6G G65-WH, 144 N-s and under 80 N avg thrust. For tracking add an Eggfinder for an inexpensive GPS unit that can fit in 24mm tubes. Some Openrocket sims show that a smoothly finished 24mm minimum diameter under 7 oz will break Mach 1 and hit anywhere from 6-8,000 ft. If you go with a really lightweight paper rocket, something like the CTI 24mm 3G F79 could probably break mach 1 and maybe a mile.
 
Apogee's Aspire is marketed both for mach 1 and a mile up (different motors). I am sure others could do it as well.
 
Kruegon said:
The largest motor you can run in mid power is the G80. But keep in mind that it may not be the best choice for what you're trying to do. OpenRocket is the best way to sim it out and find the optimal config for that rocket.

Mid power is Ę-G motors. Without an L1 cert, you cannot fly motors with an average newton rating of more than 80. Therefore, the G80 is the max.
Click to expand...

But you can run a 2xG80 Cluster if you want, and it will still be Mid-Power.
 
1tree said:
Apogee's Aspire is marketed both for mach 1 and a mile up (different motors). I am sure others could do it as well.
Click to expand...

Well acording to Open Rocket it's not


aa1_zps5a5efjye.jpg
 
I'll third or fourth the suggestion for the Apogee Aspire, provided that your friend is willing to achieve those goals on separate flights. Just be prepared for the very likely outcome of losing said rocket after either or both flights. Single use engines and windless days are called for!

I'm also hoping to break both of those goal simultaneously this summer, although with a Darkstar Jr. it's going to be iffy. Sims out to Mach 1.01 peak velocity...
 
75Grandville said:
I'm also hoping to break both of those goal simultaneously this summer, although with a Darkstar Jr. it's going to be iffy. Sims out to Mach 1.01 peak velocity...
Click to expand...

Pssst... AT 38/1320, or Loki 38/1200 will smash both those goals :)
 
If you plan to fly anything in the rocket to help you find it afterwards or to record what altitude and speed you actually achieved, be sure to allow for that additional weight in your planning. I have an Apogee Aspire which I've flown twice on the recommended F10-8 motor but fell short of a mile because I flew a BRB tracker and Altimeter Two on board. I did achieve close to 4k with it though and found it in a tall stand of corn only thanks to the tracker.

There are certainly combinations of rocket and motor which can achieve your goal. Just plan in a good bit of margin in your sims to have the best chance of succeeding. Good luck! :)

Jim Z
 
My 24mm MD build based on the Vaughn Bros. Extreme 24 goes to 5414ft. and max velocity of 1430 FPS. on a G55-10 in OR.

There's no Electronics though, and that would add weight which would probably mean that it would not go that high.
 
Last edited:
DizWolf said:
Pssst... AT 38/1320, or Loki 38/1200 will smash both those goals :)
Click to expand...

Sure will Diz, but the OP is trying to do it on a MPR motor. Those 38mm motors in a MD rocket might even hit Mach1.5 and 3 miles (just a mindsim on my part aka a WAG).
 
TopRamen said:
But you can run a 2xG80 Cluster if you want, and it will still be Mid-Power.
Click to expand...

Each G80 has 63 g propellant.

A rocket exceeds the definition of a model rocket under NFPA 1122 and becomes a High Power rocket under NFPA 1127 if it:

Uses a motor with more than 160 Newton-seconds of total impulse (an “H” motor or larger) or multiple motors that all together exceed 320 Newton-seconds;
Uses a motor with more than 80 Newtons average thrust (see rocket motor coding);
Exceeds 125 grams of propellant;
Uses a hybrid motor or a motor designed to emit sparks;
Weighs more than 1,500 grams including motor(s); or
Includes any airframe parts of ductile metal.
In addition, a rocket exceeds the definition of a model rocket under FAA rules (FAR 101.22) if weighs more than 1500 grams (53 ounces).
Click to expand...

So a cluster would have...126 g.
 
rharshberger said:
Sure will Diz, but the OP is trying to do it on a MPR motor. Those 38mm motors in a MD rocket might even hit Mach1.5 and 3 miles (just a mindsim on my part aka a WAG).
Click to expand...

Was replying to someone talking about their darkstar jr. Sorry for the confusion. (pretty sure a Jr isn't getting to 1.01 on anything G, gotta be looking at 720 motors...)
 
Did peoples who are talking about clustering 2 x G-80 realize it will take a 2.6" rocket ?
 

Similar threads

R
Which mid; power kit????
2
Replies
47
Views
1K
Spitfire222
Spitfire222
D
Level 1 Cert Rocket Kit Recommendations
2
Replies
37
Views
2K
Hobie1dog
Hobie1dog
DJRNY
Hi Tech / Low Power?
2
Replies
37
Views
2K
BigMacDaddy
BigMacDaddy
S
Class 1 launch rules for MPR?
Replies
17
Views
869
waltr
W
Sailfish1957
Installing the Featherweight GPS in the Mach 1 76 MM Nose Cone mount
Replies
0
Views
238
Sailfish1957
Sailfish1957

Latest posts

Back
Top