charge canisters

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watermelonman

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What are the advantages, disadvantages of using Pratt style charge canisters, in comparison to the usual charge well or glove finger methods?

When using, does it matter which direction the canister is pointed? I wanted to get one down by the motor pointed upwards, but was a little afraid of it pointing sideways, or the wire ripping off depending on how it all started coming out upon ejection.
 
I have used they pretty much exclusively for about 13-14 years.

They are a really good and reliable product. Never had a bad one.

I am not sure I like a metal container for a charge well. Strength sure, but also conductive.
 
I used them in the past with good results. My opinion is that they are less directional than metal charge wells, but more so than fingertip charges. In my mind metal wells look like shotguns pointing at my chutes. :bangbang: I've gone to fingertip charges mainly because I *feel* like they are *slightly* less likely to blow a hole through my nomex than a metal or plastic container.

If you are working with a FG airframe I wouldn't worry about a Pratt canister blowing a hole through the side. On a cardboard rocket I'd try to keep any charge away from the side.
 
I've only used Pratt ejection canisters, so far, and I love them. If you're worried about the BP losing contact with the ematch, just stuff a wad of tape in there.

As for direction, no strong opinions, but I generally have the canister positioned horizontal but who knows if it stays that way in flight.
 
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I use a home brew method.

ImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1427807070.147870.jpg

Just epoxy on some used Estes motors right to the bulkhead. Just have to cut off the clay nozzle and it's good to go. 18mm motor cases can handle up to roughly 3 - 4 grams of BP no problem. 24mm I'm sure is well north of 5 or 6 grams depending on how much you cut off for the nozzle and whether or not a spent D12 or E9 case is used. I've used this with rockets from 5.5" to 1.5" with few problems. Probably 50 flights or more. After a number of flights though the bulkhead can splinter a little from all the charges. To mitigate this problem I coat the outside of the bulkhead and inside of the holder with a decent amount of epoxy.

-Dave
 
All I have ever used is a folded piece of duct tape with a match and powder if I wanted the charge in the bottom near the motor. Otherwise, 3/4" copper pipe caps on the ends of the av-bay. They are $1.19 at Home Depot. They will hold about 7-8 grams of FFFFg powder which is more than I've ever needed. If you don't need that much, the 1/2" caps can work too. I just like the 3/4" because the masking tape fits better when I tape the match and dog barf in place.
 
I have never used charge canisters. I've almost exclusively used the surgical tubing method from Tfish. Generally I sleeve the tubing in tubular nylon for additional flaming particle protection. I do dog barf, surgical tubing, dog barf then everything else. I was part of a ground test on a L3 rocket where someone used a charge canister mounted on a bulkhead. 7.5" rocket, 8ish grams BP. Newton took over from there. The charge in the canister went off, ejection charge one way, canister the other way and crumpled a 1/2" thick plywood bulkhead. Oops.

Edward
 
Ok, My take on the charge canisters. I didn't use the Pratt ones but made my own out of the same materials with ematches.

I've successfully blown holes out the sides in two cardboard tubed rockets so it behooves one to restrain the canister somehow. They were both in the main chute tubes of a 2.6" and 4" rockets although it could occur with a charge placed rearward for a "blow forward" (as opposed to blow-up):facepalm: event.:wink:

How? Secure a long screw through the bulkhead and secure the canister with zipties to the screw. Also several layers of duct tape around the canister before zip tying to help keep from having it fragment.

For apogee deployment of a drogue, one could use the "blow down" method by a long screw on that side but I've had luck with the following "blow forward from the bottom" method some will diss me on.

To run the apogee/drogue charge from the bottom of the sustainer tube. I've put several wraps of tape around the canister to help prevent fragmentation (it sometimes happens) and then (this is the weird part) I've wrapped some foam around the canister so it's roughly centered in the tube and put some duct tape around it to hold the foam in place. I make it so the "assembly" fits loosely in the tube so it can be "pulled out" by the wire leads. (I sometimes wrap a few turns of the wires around the side of the eyebolt for strain relief on the bulkhead terminals. For small projects I use terminals much akin to the little screw terminals seen on deployment electronics. Strain relief is a good idea.

I've not had a flaming foam ball eject from apogee and duct tape is a surprisingly good flame retardant for "flash type" events like charges going off.

But again, "blowing down" for an apogee/drogue event is not that bad because it is generally easy to pull the shockcord out with a small drogue parachute that fits easily in the rocket. One just pins the shockcord protector to the forward end of the cord (or use a duct tape wrap!) and make sure the drogue is not going to "come out" of the chute protector under acceleration.

In my mind (correct me if I'm wrong) it makes more sense to push a tightly fitted main chute from the bottom rather than blowing down and trying to pull it out?

Now of course, with fiberglass tubing one can get away with just about anything! Kurt
 
I use blastcaps. Easy to use, easy to clean and he's also in connecticut...
 
Using "charge canisters" creates a shot gun blast effect.
More concentrated in one direction.
I think along the same lines, in that; you want the charge to push rather than pull out the parachute.
Although, I have used both when using redundant charges. One on each end prevents them from setting off each other.

I use a bag type charge for the main and also use more BP than most.
My rule of thumb is: 1 gram per inch of tube in diameter.

JD
 
I use a bag type charge for the main and also use more BP than most.
My rule of thumb is: 1 gram per inch of tube in diameter.

JD

So on a 8" long, 4" diameter chamber you'd use 4 grams?

:y:

My rule of thumb is...ground test.
 
I've only used chunks of 13 or 18 mm estes bodytubes for ejection charges and for ones that go into the main BT I tape the charge tube to the ignitor so that it points up not sideways also I bury it into the top of the motor tube if I can
 
You know the plastic container that most motor manufacturers use to put ejection charge in? Where do I get that? I find they are very convenient as is for altimeter ejection.

In the absence of such a container I just take a piece of paper, fold it into a pocket, pour powder in, add E match and tape the whole thing shut.
 
There are lots of places you can find them here's one:https://www.spectrophotometerjam.com/plastic-centrifuge-vials.html Amazon, ebay has them also.


Yeah, those are them. I bought a variety of sizes 1ml, 1.7ml, 2ml, 7.5ml 10 years ago about $20.00 a thousand. Our club is set for a long time. The 7.5ml press fit tightly into some steel electrical conduit and the prefect in my group hammered out a dozen
holders in about 10 minutes for me! Put a wood plug in one end and hammered it square to secure. There was room to layer epoxy for added strength and a single drill hole for the ematch and epoxy in a hole on the ebay lid. Direct wire to the altimeter.
Can dig out the used canister with a hook if need be. Kurt
 
I've used Blastcaps, large-caliber brass, pipe fittings, surgical tubing, glove tips, and masking tape envelopes. Each has advantages, disadvantages. I imagine the Pratt containers have good and bad about them, too.


Blastcaps: size appropriately. Getting too large a size tends to you having a film of powder rather than a small pile into which you insert your ignition source. I like having the head of the igniter completely covered; just makes me feel better. They do work well, and wipe back to shiny with ease. You commit these to a single av-bay, though. Directional --the charge is going to go out the open end, and you can get excellent powder containment with dog barf and masking tape.

Brass/pipe fittings. As Blastcaps, size appropriately. Passing familiarity with the caliber and loading volume is recommended if using brass; may run you cheaper than the Blastcap, however, even once-fired brass may have weak spots/cracks. Also, depriming may require special equipment (particularly with military primers which are crimped in, or that oddball European bit with two flash holes (Berdan? I forget)). Rigged/fabricated parts such as these may be less reliable to mount to av-bay lid, and more prone to failure. These are also committed to a single av-bay. Multiple replacements may lead to loss of bulkhead integrity and permit leaks from chute compartment into av-bay. Directional, as the Blastcap.

Surgical Tubing: can be pricey, depending upon source, and how it is packaged (a length of X feet) tends to lead to waste. It does have an advantage where you can pre-manufacture multiple charges and store them. I achieved better results wrapping these in tape than I did leaving them bare, however, I didn't do a side-by-side comparison study. Unlike the above methods, these are more omnidirectional when they are fired. Is that good/ bad? Debatable, surely, but should be mentioned. Would not use with Tender Descenders or cable cutters.

Glove Fingertips: cheap (for me), and it's possible to get good containment, particularly when taped. However, these do not, in my experience, store well, and I've had issues with leaking powder. As with surgical tubing, omnidirectional burst. Best results with small (1-2g) charges... and can often be stuffed inside a Blastcap or other mounted directional container, which, usually, is not possible with the surgical tubing (as the tubing tends to be a bit longer). Outside of a container, would not use with Tender Descenders or cable cutters.

Tape Envelope: cheap, easy. Containment takes practice, but you can get it pretty good. Best for small charges. Good technique is required to minimize chances of leaking --at corners as well as at igniter insertion point. Omnidirectional, however, like the glove, can often be stuffed into a mounted directional container. Unlike the glove, user dictates the size/shape of charge. Outside of a container, would not use with Tender Descenders or cable cutters.


Merely my observations...


Later!

--Coop
 
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Blastcap as in the device shown in the photos in the thread, above...


Later!

--Coop
 
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