HOA neighborhood rant

I live in a neighborhood with an HOA. When I moved in years ago I specifically looked around for a place that had an HOA because they'd make sure home values stayed as high as possible. Nobody wants to spend good money on a house and a year later have your next door neighbor paint his house pink, pave his front yard, and have 13 cars sitting in his driveway/yard in various stages of repair. The value of your house would go way down.

Something similar happened to my old house. A neighbor across the street decided to decorate her yard with every nick-knack she found at a garage sale. There was a plastic wading pool around the mailbox being used as a planter, there were 4,253 wind chimes on her porch, there were flamingos in the yard, pedal cars being used as planters, fountains that never worked, etc. There was nothing I could do about it, so when I moved out I never wanted to deal with that again.

So in my opinion an HOA is a great option. You move into a place that has an HOA, you're aware it's there before you buy the house, you agree to follow the covenant, you agree to get HOA approvals before making changes to the property, and in return none of your neighbors are allowed to let their place look like crap.

The thing I don't understand, is why someone would move into an HOA controlled neighborhood and then fight the HOA about changes. I've never understood people that said, "I hate my HOA, they think they can tell ME what do to with MY house!"

If you don't want to be in that situation, don't buy a house in an HOA neighborhood!! And when your next door neighbor sets up a used car lot and you can't sell your house for anything close to what you paid for it, maybe you'll enjoy the fact that nobody told you when you had to cut the grass.

Sorry for the rant. Last night was our yearly HOA meeting and some people just don't seem to think that the rules apply to them. It really irritates me.

I'm in the same situation at the moment, my neighbors across the street from us have at least 10 cars and a 20 something year old boy who has his band practice all hours of the night and his band mates park in front of my house and sometimes block my driveway it's getting to the point where I want to call the cops on them for the hell of it, lucky we are just renting and we are not stuck in the house, so the HOA sounds a lot better then dealing with a hole neighbors.

One of the reasons I'm going to ultimately end up in the country on a few acres. I've seen it happen everywhere from small "starter" neighborhoods to high-end communities.

Jackball74 said:

One of the reasons I'm going to ultimately end up in the country on a few acres. I've seen it happen everywhere from small "starter" neighborhoods to high-end communities.

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Seen what happen?

Wait until you find out your HOA has some codicil buried 323 paragraphs down on page 17 which says homeowners may not handle explosive or "inflammatory" substances on their property at any time.

JStarStar said:

Wait until you find out your HOA has some codicil buried 323 paragraphs down on page 17 which says homeowners may not handle explosive or "inflammatory" substances on their property at any time.

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Heh. Well, if that's the case then my firewood and the gasoline I use for the lawnmower have to go too.

But I know what you mean. If they do have a restriction against black powder motors on the property then I'll have to deal with it. I'll store my stuff in a different place. But it's still something I signed when I bought the house so how could I possibly complain about it now?

To me the trade off is worth it. My property values won't be tanked by a street full of knee high grass with rats running in and out, and I get to live in a nice looking neighborhood with a few restrictions that I can live with.

I understand the point of an HOA, and some of them even go so far as to actually do the landscaping for you and maybe have some neighborhood amenities like a pool. HOA neighborhoods are neat and tidy, so that has to be nice. I agree that if you buy a home in an HOA neighborhood, you know the rules, you sign the HOA paperwork, and sign the CC&Rs, you should abide by them.

Personally, I like not having an HOA. I like neighborhoods that are a little bit older and more grown in and diverse. Most HOA neighborhoods are a little bit uniform and sterile for my tastes. But I have had my share of problems with dirtbag neighbors in my non-HOA neighborhood, so there is a risk of that.

We live in very individualistic times. People think self first. "I signed that paper because I wanted to live in this house. I like this house because it is convenient for me, and I want to live in this neighborhood."

How many people sign their HOA agreement thinking, "These restrictions will help me be a good neighbor and increase my neighbors' property value?"

So, as soon as they are faced with a restriction, they don't say, "How is this impacting my neighbors?" They say, "I don't like the impact to me!"

We have similar issues at my condominium. There are 112 total units made up of 28 buildings of four units each. The units are mostly townhouse-style with some cape-style and a few others thrown in to keep it interesting. We occupy about 30 acres so there's lots of open, grassy area and about a mile or so of roadway, cul-de-sacs and driveways.

Lots of people buy here as starter homes and others are empty-nesters who have downsized. Some of us just don't like the idea of yard work or exterior maintenance and are happy to pay our monthly fee for the freedom. A surprisingly large number of unit owners don't seem to get the community idea of living they've signed up for. There's a huge amount of documentation to sign at the closing much of it dealing with the rules and regs of the place. Still, people will ask to do all kinds of things we can't allow. Or worse, they go ahead and do something that's not allowed and then have to restore their unit to the original condition.

To further aggravate myself, I'm in my second three-year term on the condo board of trustees. Maintaining the value of the units is paramount and getting very expensive as we come up on the oldest units hitting 30-years-old. The newest ones are about 20. Roofs, decks, claps and shingles are all needing more repair and replacement every year and the roadways will need to be replaced over the next five years.

The complex is considered a jewel compared to most other complexes in the area so we have to keep that going. At least the lawn ornaments or car lot look never gets a toe hold; any infraction like that can be quashed quickly.

Mushtang said:

and have 13 cars sitting in his driveway/yard in various stages of repair. The value of your house would go way down.

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Where I used to live (in NJ), the police would cite you for having junk cars on your lot...people all over town were very concerned about property values, no HOA needed.

Mushtang said:

Sorry for the rant. Last night was our yearly HOA meeting and some people just don't seem to think that the rules apply to them. It really irritates me.

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But, that's the American way! Rugged individualism...you didn't see John Wayne, after conquering the West, say "Next thing, pilgrim, is we set up an HOA!" No sirreee! The rules don't apply to me...that's what it says on all those soda-pop and cigarette, ads, anyway...

There was definitely a time in this country when people were a lot more neighborly and considerate. No one would dare do something to his property without considering the impact to his neighbors. My parents were like that.

Today, it's me first and screw everyone else. So, HOAs regulate people that should be self-regulating.

Jackball74 said:

One of the reasons I'm going to ultimately end up in the country on a few acres. I've seen it happen everywhere from small "starter" neighborhoods to high-end communities.

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Same here. Not only to have my own launching field, but to have a garden and chickens again.

My HOA has been a terrible disappointment. The covenant I signed required single family dwellings and no rentals but the developer changed the rules behind our backs by allowing rentals and sold the last six lots to out-of-state owners who then set up rentals. Now the neighborhood is mostly rentals. At the same time there are owners who have never paid their dues and have never had liens put on their houses. Rules are no longer enforced but dues go up every year. HOA meetings are held 40 miles away in the management company's office on Tuesday at 2pm when everyone is working.

I understand that some people like HOAs and I respect that. I'm not one of them. I have no desire to ever buy a house with an HOA unless perhaps it is my final retirement home and I am no longer able to do yardwork. In fact, my preference is to be far enough out in the country that a) I don't have any neighbors (or they are far enough away that I really don't care if they mow their lawn or what they park there), and b) there is little or no zoning. If I own 30 acres and want to start a small business (rockets or otherwise) out of a polebarn out back, I really don't care much for the idea that someone can tell me at 1) I can't build a polebarn, and 2) I can't run a business in a residential area. I don't want to break the rules or be a jerk, I would just prefer to live where no one cares what I do and the neighbors are far enough away that we don't bother each other, but close enough to run for help in an emergency (think hundreds of yards).

Peartree said:

I have no desire to ever buy a house with an HOA unless perhaps it is my final retirement home and I am no longer able to do yardwork.

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I can understand all of what you wrote above (except moving into an HOA neighborhood when you're too old to cut the grass - you'd do that just to piss off neighbors with your high grass?). It sounds like you have reasons for not wanting to live in an HOA neighborhood and therefore won't move into one. Makes perfect sense.

There are a lot of people that feel that way, and most don't move into one. It's just so infuriating when someone moves into an HOA that doesn't like them, and then does all they can to try and fight the rules and restrictions. That's where I question someone's intelligence.

Yeah, I'm in a similar boat, John. When I went looking for my first house I very specifically wanted one that did not have a HOA, which was fairly hard to find in my area (and basically ruled out any newer neighborhood). I can understand the theory/motivation behind a HOA, but I've heard of way too many spiraling out of control to the point where they start dictating the type/color of shades you can have in your windows, the color of your mailbox, what flowers you can plant, etc. Mainly an excuse for local power-trippers to do their thing and bully others. Not interested, thanks. But I wouldn't move in to a neighborhood with a HOA and then complain about it/expect to change it, I'd just stay far away from such a place. I don't need a lot of land (my lot is 60x100' as all of them are in my section) and I don't mind neighbors, I just don't have any desire to bully others or to be bullied, live and let live has worked fine for me for 11 years here. Sure there are some places on the street that are better/worse-kept than others or have RVs/trailers or several cars, etc., but I don't see anything that I would consider doing any resale value harm to any neighboring houses. The only issues I've seen in the neighborhood are the occasional neighbors who don't get along just due to different personalities, which is probably what would start to drive something like a HOA to come up with any restriction imaginable to pick on one person or the other depending on who had more power/influence.

In my parents neighborhood there are a few folks who keep trying to create a HOA, mainly under the guise of replacing the small garden/sign at the entrance to the section (nevermind that the one guy owns a sign business), but there have already been several fine-print attempts to work a lot more restrictions into it than just the entrance garden, so thankfully the neighborhood has consistently voted against it in overwhelming numbers. And a few people volunteer their time to maintain the entrance (and the sign was provided by the local government, same as all of the other nearby sections), of course none of the people trying to get everybody to chip in helps out at all. But it seems like there could be cases where somebody bought a house that wasn't part of a HOA and later got it forced upon them, which would give them more right to complain in my opinion (I'd sure be complaining if that happened to me).

What I liked when I lived in Murrieta, CA was that the neighborhood we lived in was beautiful and people took pride in maintaining the appearance of their homes. The yards were nicely manicured and the houses exteriors were all clean and not faded. I also noticed this also carried on into the local businesses .... even though it wasn't a gated community people there cared about how things were.

Peartree said:

I understand that some people like HOAs and I respect that. I'm not one of them. I have no desire to ever buy a house with an HOA unless perhaps it is my final retirement home and I am no longer able to do yardwork. In fact, my preference is to be far enough out in the country that a) I don't have any neighbors (or they are far enough away that I really don't care if they mow their lawn or what they park there), and b) there is little or no zoning. If I own 30 acres and want to start a small business (rockets or otherwise) out of a polebarn out back, I really don't care much for the idea that someone can tell me at 1) I can't build a polebarn, and 2) I can't run a business in a residential area. I don't want to break the rules or be a jerk, I would just prefer to live where no one cares what I do and the neighbors are far enough away that we don't bother each other, but close enough to run for help in an emergency (think hundreds of yards).

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Sounds like a good setup for a moonshiner.

Mushtang said:

Something similar happened to my old house. A neighbor across the street decided to decorate her yard with every nick-knack she found at a garage sale. There was a plastic wading pool around the mailbox being used as a planter, there were 4,253 wind chimes on her porch, there were flamingos in the yard, pedal cars being used as planters, fountains that never worked, etc. There was nothing I could do about it, so when I moved out I never wanted to deal with that again.

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Your experience, nasty as it was, is not the norm for people who buy homes in non-HOA communities. I'm one of those hardcore freedom types and I will never live somewhere with an HOA. Most of my reasons have been expressed by others so I won't go into those.

That being said, I do recognize that there's a chance I could have an experience like yours and pay a big financial price down the road. However, this is a chance I'm willing to take as I think the odds are in my favor. If it happens to me, well I have only myself to blame. But even if it does happen, that financial cost will be far outweighed by the extra freedom I'll enjoy until that day comes...and it'll also be offset at least some by money I'm NOT paying into HOA fees.

There is, however, one point where we agree: it takes a special kind of jackass to move into an HOA community and then start fighting the covenants tooth and nail.

If you read the covenants, and even better yet, talk to some of your potential neighbors before moving in, an HOA is not a bad thing. My neighborhood has one, and to be honest, they don't do too much. They have to sign off on certain home improvements and occasionally if someone lets their yard go they'll send them a letter, but that's about it. There are no silly rules forcing people to keep all their vehicles garaged or no smaller work vehicles in the driveway. Several people have flagpoles. You can keep your boat or small camper on your property as long as it is parked somewhere not completely visible from the street., etc. Basically enough to keep someone from moving in and trashing their property.

It is when someone falls in love with a house, knows there's an HOA there, then never bothers to read the covenants or doesn't know the board is run by a bunch of busybodies do you hear the loud complaints.

Because people still expect normal use of their property and may assume it. Mostly, anyway.

Actually, the main reason I live in a HOA neighborhood is the houses were going at lower prices than everywhere else, in an interesting location. This is more an weekend resort turned bedroom neighborhood though, and definitely doesn't have consistent architecture.

Mushtang said:

I can understand all of what you wrote above (except moving into an HOA neighborhood when you're too old to cut the grass - you'd do that just to piss off neighbors with your high grass?). It sounds like you have reasons for not wanting to live in an HOA neighborhood and therefore won't move into one. Makes perfect sense.

There are a lot of people that feel that way, and most don't move into one. It's just so infuriating when someone moves into an HOA that doesn't like them, and then does all they can to try and fight the rules and restrictions. That's where I question someone's intelligence.

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I was referring to a neighborhood down the street from us (and someone here mentioned one like it) that is mostly duplexes and townhomes and the association maintains all the lawns. You can plant flowers in your small flowerbeds, or not but other than that the association hires it out as well as snowplowing in the winter. You only need to worry about your sidewalk. I can see doing that at some point in my old age. But you're right, I don't see the point of buying a home in an HOA and then not following the rules. I might be the guy who goes door to door lobbying for a rule change though.

As someone who like living well outside of town, we have had folks like you describe too. In our case they move out of the city, come out in the country, and then complain to high heaven that we don't have all the city services that they are used to having and want us to vote for higher taxes so we can get sewers and hire a full-time fire department instead of volunteers, etc. If you want to live in the country, there are some things that come with the territory. If you want city services, stay in the city.

I live in a nice neighborhood in an Indianapolis suburb. The neighborhood is about 17 years old; my house is 15 years old. I've lived in it for almost 10 years now. The neighborhood has an HOA. What we liked about the neighborhood when driving through it during house-hunting is that it was well maintained. It remains well maintained now, a decade later.

It's the type of place where you have to have the "approved" mailbox... I know this probably turns off a lot of people, but actually this really adds to the look. When they decided to upsize the mailboxes a few years ago, with a required levy payment in addition to the HOA fee, I didn't mind. I did feel bad for folks that had recently replaced their 10 year old ratty-falling-apart mailboxes at their own expense (following the HOA bylaws in doing so), then had to shell out again for the new mailbox type. In fact I went to the HOA meeting and said that if an owner had replaced his mailbox in the last year or two and had papers to prove it, they should get their new mailbox free... I was voted down.

The HOA isn't all "pretty mailboxes" and the folks overseeing it sometimes need to get something better to do. Before I switched to LED bulbs in the outside coach lamp, I would frequently get warning letters saying my bulb was out. Those bulbs would never be out for more than a couple days because I'm OCD about replacing them, so they must drive through the neighborhood several times a week looking for burned out bulbs. Sheesh. Send me a letter if it's out for more than a week, but once it was out for a single night and I got a letter to replace it two days after I had already replaced it.

Then there's the time I got a letter they wanted me to replace part of the sidewalk because it had subsided more than a half of an inch. They had apparently gone around with a ruler and sent letters to anyone whose sidewalk sections didn't line up within half of an inch. I had one section that was 3/4" so I got a letter. I told them to please cite the city code or HOA rule that states we have to maintain within a half an inch. They couldn't do so (because it was arbitrary) and eventually told me I didn't have to do it.

We're also not allowed to have trash cans (big 96 gallon toters are used here) visible. So we have to keep 'em in the garage. Stinks in the summer. But, I knew when I signed up that this was the rule... so I abide by it.

My one real beef is that the HOA covenants when I signed up said no permanent basketball hoops visible from the street. I'm not a sports guy, and I kind of liked this. I think hoops look tacky, personally, and I don't like the sound of bouncing basketballs (long story, lived next to a guy that would bounce basketballs at all times of the night). Anyway, couple of years ago, one guy applied for a waiver to the rule. It got approved somehow, then all of a sudden the hoops sprang up like mushrooms at the end of driveways. My next door neighbors put one in, and when my wife or I are trying to take a nap on the weekend we often hear the metallic bouncing sounds, because our bedroom wall faces the neighbor's driveway and that hoop is probably not even 30 feet away. Pisses me off. Fortunately the kids there don't use it much anymore...

Anyway, HOAs are a mixed bag. It's all in how they are enforced, and whether or not the people enforcing are having a power trip.

Marc

We have one. I like it. Our property values have increased which I like. No concerns here.

Used to live in an HOA controlled neighborhood. Outside of Dallas. Tony Dorsett's old neighborhood. It was nice. Lived on a little lake/pond. But didn't like seeing the neighbors. Now my 150+ acres is much better. Don't see my neighbors and I have my own rules now. :tongue:

The real issue for most people and most areas in the country (not all - don't want to paint with too broad a brush) is that essentially all new construction seems to be HOAs (mandated for new developments by the local authorities). Live with them, live with a horrendous commute, or live in some ratty nasty old house. Heck of a set of choices.

And people can be a community without the power of what is essentially a state behind it. I realize contracts, voluntarily signed, etc...but the demand for non-HOA housing FAR outstrips the supply around here. Which should tell us something.