[Post Flight] 1 Weekend and 65,000Ns

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A5tr0 An0n

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Introduction:

As the title might state, this thread is a post flight summary of one long and distant weekend in which a fair amount of Ns were released. Two weekends ago Prophecy and I got the chance to fly three projects out in the desserts of NM. Two of these projects had been previously scrubbed flights (due to the weather), planned for BALLS23 and have since been "sitting around," taking up shop space. A day following BALLS23 Prophecy and I applied for a high altitude wavier in NM so we wouldn't have to wait a year to fly; this ended up taking about 6 months to get but it was worth the wait.

Since the original construction of these vehicles data has been lost and consequently the thread will not be as informative as some of you might like.



The Journey:

The wavier opened up on Saturday at 0800, so naturally we wanted to get onto the field Friday to setup all the GSE and get settled in. We started the 12 hour drive to the field on Thursday night at 2130; turns out it took us much longer than 12 hours to get there. We ended up meeting with John Demar and Jim Jarvis at John's shop on Friday around 1730 for some last minute adjustments... like building a rail for the 5 inch vehicle. It only made sense, seeing as we didn't have one built yet and launch was less than a day away. Anyways due to this and some other things we ended up all headed out to the field probably around 2000ish (dark). Using the car headlights we were able to get most of the GSE setup in the dark and head back to find a hotel and crash for a couple of hours prior to the scheduled launch.

Below are some photographs of the journey out.


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Almost in NM... not.


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Dessert sunsets.


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Nothing better than GSE setup at night.


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The next mornings drive out to the field.


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The following morning field arrival photo.


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Seeing as I didn't plan on flying a 38mm load anytime soon and I was bored... so I decided to take some 5.56 to it, with the help of some friends.


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Yeah...


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Attack of the bulls.


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Cool clouds on the way back home.



Conclusion:

We were able to get all three flights up in two days, which is a accomplishment in itself. With that being said all three flights did not go 100% as planned. However skills were developed, knowledge was acquired, and the trip was overall good. With these projects out of the way, prophecy and I can start to work on another planned project and add to them from the information gained from these flights.

We would like to thank Thomas Kindig, Kent Newman, John Demar, Jim Jarvis, and Mac Heller for their support and help in many different ways.

In the following three thread posts I will describe each flight in more detail, in chronological order with each post representing a flight. Thanks for stopping by and in conclusion all I can say is it is nice to have these rockets/flights out of the way.




Flight On with Flight 1 --> Next Post
 
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Flight 1:

5 Inch Minimum Diameter Composite Cased O-9500

The design was simple, take a 127mm (5 inch) composite case slap a fin can, upper airframe, and cone on it and stick a fair sized aggressive motor in it.



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Design.


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Stability.


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O-9500 motor thrust curve.



Nose Cone:
5:1 FWFG VK Nose Cone with an aluminum tip (shouldered and epoxied) to help deal with aerodynamic heating. The cone had a wall thickness of 3.18mm (0.125") and a base OD of 130mm (5.125"). The Shoulder was also made of FWFG and measured 152mm (6") Length, 124mm (4.875") OD, and 3.18mm (0.125") Wall Thickness. The nose cone housed all the tracking electronics and flight computers. The cone as other all the other FWFG parts contained a red dye for aesthetics.

Payload:
The payload consisted of on-board telemetry devices for GPS and RF tracking as well as flight computers to control the flight events via GPS, accelerometer, and barometer data. The electronics consisted of a Comm Spec RF tracker, AIM XTRA GPS/Flight Computer, BRB 70cm 100W GPS, and MARSA54L Flight Computer. All electronics were lost in the flight crash except the Comm Spec RF tracker, but it might of been possibly damaged upon impact.

Upper Airframe:
The Nose Cone coupled onto the upper airframe which was made out of FWFG and measured 610mm (24") Length, 3.18mm (0.125") Wall Thickness, and 130mm (5.125") OD. The upper airframe housed the cable tied main parachute, ~25mm (1") strap kevlar shock cord, cable cutters, pyro events and the parachute flame protector.

Upper AF / AF Motor Case Coupler:
This piece allows the upper assembly to be coupled to the motor case. It was made from FWFG and measured 305mm (12") Length, 124mm (4.875") OD, and 4.76mm (0.1875") Wall Thickness. It set flush against the forward motor closure and retained it in place via two rows of several pins.

Composite Motor Case:
The case that held the propellant was made of FWFG and high heat capable epoxy. The forward closure was made from aluminum and the nozzle was made of graphite. Both the nozzle and closure were retained with pins epoxied in place instead of the usual screws. The case was 1422mm (56") Length, 130mm (5.125") OD, and 9.53mm (0.375") Wall Thickness. The reasoning for the case being so thick was not to withstand the pressure (which was high by hobby standards) but rather for heating issues. The thickness of the case combined the motor case and the liner all into one piece. The grains casting tubes would be bonded directly into the case, this has proved to work in a earlier 98mm (4") model so we stuck with the design. The aft portion of the case was turned down to allow the fin can to sit slight lower than case's OD to prevent air flow to get underneath the can itself.

Motor:
The motor was a AP based composite propellant consisting of four grains and containing approximately 15.4kg (34lb) of propellant. The propellant itself is the Honey Badger formula, originally created by Butalane. The motor was a BATES grain configuration and utilized stepped cores. The motor operated at higher than amateur standard pressures and produced a maximum thrust of 12,103N, with a total impulse of ~33,000Ns (63% O), and burned for 3.29s.

Fin Can / Fins:
We expected M3+ (actual = M2.8) on this flight and being short on time opted for a aluminum fin can. The can had a integrated transition that coupled with the aft portion of the case being turned down allowed for a smooth transition from the case to the fin can. The can was 457mm (18") Length, 137mm (5.375") OD, 3.18mm (0.125") Wall Thickness and had slots for the fins to be retained before welding. The fin design consisted of four fins for higher dynamic stability while also allowing for the utilization of smaller fins. The fins were also made from aluminum and were tabbed and welded in place, with no warping of the can occurring. The fins had a span of 139mm (5.47"), 6.35mm (0.25") Thickness, 444mm (17.5"), 70o sweep angle, and they were placed 2216mm (87.25") from the tip of the Nose Cone.



Pre-flight:

Just various photos of the vehicle in a state prior to launch.


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Casting 2 of the 4 grains. Note the smaller N-5800 grains.


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Aluminum forward motor closure with redundant o-ring grooves.


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Forward motor closure, utilizing two forged eyebolts as previously seen on OuR & Qu8k.


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Drilling the holes for the pin rings.


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Almost ready for flight at BALLS23. Aluminum fincan, composite case, pin ring, and nozzle.


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Left: Must tighten all the bolts. Middle: Angle looks good. Right: T-5mins.



Flight:

Here is a video and some shots of the launch. The vehicle (with all her 80lbs) left the pad quickly and kept at about 90o.


[video=youtube;89hlKxTMfeM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89hlKxTMfeM[/video]
Video of the flight.


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1. Liftoff. 2. Close to 90o 3. Still burning strong. 4. Apogee pyro events.



Recovery:

Some photos of the recovery and all its pieces. Unfortunately there was a recovery anomaly with the main event. The vehicle was relatively easy to find due to receiving GPS up until 600ft AGL and was recovered within two miles of the launch site.


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First sight.


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The parachute just sitting there ready to go... :/


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Took some force to do that. Note the discoloration on the aluminum fin can (not paint).


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The ground here is tough. The upper airframe was found buried ~1ft under the ground.


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After a long hike with a big rocket, the roof of my car seemed to be a great idea for the last mile back.



Post Flight Conclusion:

Flight 1 resulted in a lower apogee (39kft) most likely due to the nozzle being spit. We think the nozzle was spit due to a violent motor shut off and the fact that the graphite was pretty soft. The apogee charges fired and the vehicle separate at apogee however at the main specified altitude the cable tied parachute did not inflate in time. As can be seen in the pictures above the parachute was close to inflation but we think that the vehicle inadvertently stabilized during the drogueless decent and therefore had a fast descent velocity. This would in turn prevent the main from having the required time to inflate before the collision. The fin can was significantly heavier than the light composite case. Even with the damage sustained to the vehicle some parts were salvaged. There was never an intent to re-fly this vehicle however, so the only real loss per se was the electronics.

I will update this with GPS data once I can get it off of a computer that is halfway across the country.




Flight 2 --> Next Post
 
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Flight 2:

[Cloned Residuum] 4" and 59" of Prop

This vehicle was previously designed to be the carrier of the N5800 at BALLS23, due to things going south with the construction, deadline, and weather the project with this particular vehicle was scrapped. The vehicle was headed for the trash until prophecy and I decided that we could salvage it in the downtime, while we waited for our NM wavier. So we went into motion removing the ceramic layer off of the fin can, switching cones to a VK and reconfiguring the payload/recovery setup to reflect the new motor. Oh yeah the motor... the airframe is 66" long x 4" OD, so naturally we found it logical to cram a 59" long motor inside.

For those interested you can check out the original build thread here --> https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?65113-98mm-Min-Dia-L3-Build

We launched this project on the second day, mainly due to some electronic concerns and the addition of rail buttons having to be added because some in control of the site voiced concern over an unknown EX motor and 5ft of tower guidance. So we headed back to John's shop to go at it, trying to figure out how to add rail buttons to a friction fit motor (that is long) inside a minimum diameter vehicle... long story short, we were very careful and drilled the holes while the case was still inside the airframe. We then had the rest of the night for electronic setup and recovery prep. Turns out one of the on board flight systems was not turning on so it needed to be swapped out; much thanks goes to Mannyskid for providing the loaner board the night before.



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Design.


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Stability v. Mach v. Altitude.


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N-7113 Thrust Curve.


Nose Cone:
Unlike the initial version of this rocket which had a ogive cone the second go around used a 6:1 VK FWFG cone. The choice for the VK cone was made mostly in part that one was laying around the shop and it also slightly increased the internal volume for the payload/recovery due to its geometry. The cone had a aluminum tip to aid in the protection against aerodynamic heating and thus preventing possible delamination of the fibers. The base diameter measured 106mm (4.165") OD and the cone had a wall thickness of 3.18mm (0.125"). The nose cone aluminum tip had a shoulder on it, in a attempt to prevent the tip from separating from the rest of the cone. The tip was also drilled and tapped to allow a steel forged eyebolt to act as a forward shock cord harness point. This assembly was then torqued and epoxied permanently in place. The nose cone housed the only parachute, parachute protector, charges, and the shock cord/harnesses.

Payload:
The payload bay was made from FWFG and measured 229mm (9") Length, 99.4mm (3.915") OD, and 3.18mm (0.125") wall thickness. The forward and aft bulkheads that sealed the payload shut were made out of fiberglass and were 3.18mm (0.125") thick. The actual payload consisted of on board flight computers, GPS, RF telemetry, accelerometers and barometers. The two units that provided all the aforementioned were the AltusMetrum TeleMega and the AIM XTRA 2.0. Unfortunately the AltusMetrum ground station (TeleBT) was a bad unit from an apparently bad production run so there was no redundant telemetry and tracking. The payload cylinder itself allows the nose cone to couple onto the airframe, which leads me to a unique design feature within this vehicle. The aft payload bulkhead was threaded and screwed directly into the top of the motor forward closure, this optimized space by eliminating it. The forward payload bulkhead had a SS U-bolt for a aft recovery harness attachment point.

Recovery:
The vehicle was designed and flown as a single deploy rocket with separation occurring between the nose cone and the airframe at apogee. This truly did simplify the design and in our opinion is simply efficient in space, reliability, and horizontal launch distance optimization. The parachute was a 813mm (32") sky angle with a Cd of 1.14, surface area of 1.04m2 (11.2ft2), resulting in a descent velocity of ~21.34m/s (70ft/s).

Airframe:
The airframe was a continuous piece of FWCF measuring 1676mm (66") Length, 106mm (4.165") OD, and 3.18mm (0.125") wall thickness. The choice to utilize one continuous airframe was that for structural reasons; we wanted to eliminate the possibility of the airframe giving under the dynamic loads it would be experiencing. The airframe also retained the 1499mm (59") long motor via added friction between the two parts.

Motor:
98mm (3.858") and 1372mm (54") of propellant, now that is a nice airframe to propellant ratio. The motor was a AP based composite propellant made composed of 4 BATES grains featuring stepped cores. Each grain was 343mm (13.5") long and the top two were the only with red iron in them but all of them were bonded to the liner. The motor case was a snap ring case made from aluminum, with a aluminum bulkhead (insulated inside) and a graphite nozzle; both the nozzle and the bulkhead had redundant o-ring grooves. The motor produced a maximum thrust of 10,000N, burned all 20lbs of propellant in 3.5s, and produced a total impulse of 18,000Ns.

Fins:
The expected Mach number was between M2.6-2.8 so the stability at increased velocity and the consequential aerodynamic forces acting upon the fins were design considerations. The choice was made and 4 fins it was. This added more dynamic stability while also allowing us to reduce the size of the fins and therefore reduce the loads they would experience. The fins were of a traditional clipped delta design and measured 381mm (15") root, 88.9mm (3.5") span, 6.35mm (0.25") thick, and placed 1892mm (74.5") from the tip of the nose cone. The fins were constructed from CF, received 4 layers of CF tip-to-tip (not necessary for this flight), and the leading and trailing edges were beveled for aerodynamic reasons.

*All composite parts were made with high temperature capable epoxy.


Pre-flight:

Various photographs of the vehicle in a construction, preparation, and admiration state prior to launch.


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Seeing how I didn't like our casting base for the 5inch, I decided to make the new one better. Here is a quick drawing when I conceptualized the idea.


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1 of 2 batches of propellant, this one without the red.


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The casting bases came out nice. Had to make a change to allow the uninhibited end caps to work with it.


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Unfortunately the uninhibited caps did not work out to well. Used liberal amounts of MLEX2 Spray Release (EZ-Kote).


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Grains are done and ready to bonded into the liner. You can see two with red and two without.


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All done and ready for the snap ring motor case. Due to the length, two liners were needed.


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All standard stuff here.


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Nose Cone harness point and added shoulder.


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Vehicle shown with majority of the ceramic removed and the new VK cone added.


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Temperature (of the backside) before the propane torch.


[video=youtube;kylRCBCOeqc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kylRCBCOeqc&feature=youtu.be[/video]
Video of the burn, torch held ~3" away. Did several tests with different samples, the longest being 15s.


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Temperature (of the backside) after the propane torch.


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Front side after burn.


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Back side after burn.


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Ablative applied and sanded.


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Close up of the ablative covered fin area.


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Left:Motor to airframe comparison and view of the payload configuration. Right: Motor/payload assembly installed into vehicle. Note that this photo was taken prior to the sanding of the ablative.


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Left: Electrical flight systems (top view). Right:Electrical flight systems (bottom view).


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Left:Painted and polished. Right:Just about ready for flight.




Part II in the next post.
 
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Flight:

During the beginning seconds of the flight the vehicle started to cone but corrected itself. This was due to a number of variables but mostly the short fin span and the extra unaccounted for mass that was added from the Bondo on the fin area.

Here are some videos and photographs of the flight.



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Pre-flight prep... Go.


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Power up and arming of flight electrical systems.


[video=youtube;inKtC9BnFiw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inKtC9BnFiw&feature=youtu.be[/video]
Launch video.


[video=youtube;HUeKpElBT6E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUeKpElBT6E[/video]
Up close video of the initial boost phase.


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Lift off.


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1. Everything is looking good. 2. Close up. 3. You can see the remnants of the coning. 4. Going strong and getting up there. 5. Zoomed in while she's zooming out.



Recovery:

As aforementioned the AltusMetrum TeleMega ground station (TeleBT) was not functioning properly and eliminated the possibility of GPS telemetry from that unit. Therefore the only tracking available was from the AIM XTRA. In short no GPS coordinates were acquired and the vehicle is currently MIA. The nice part of that is that the data was coming in live via RF so most of the flight data is saved, which in itself is more valuable than the vehicle.



Flight Conclusion:

~(33kft and M2.5). It is sad to loose the electronics but not the vehicle, it was designed to be mostly single use. All things considered the flight was overall successful minus the recovery and allowed for the verification of new technology, building techniques, and payload/recovery advancement. Certain things learned from this flight are all ready being incorporated into the next vehicle and that in itself is priceless.

I will update this with in flight data once I can get it off of a computer that is currently halfway across the country.


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Terrain is pretty tough and that is a decent size crater from the motor.




Flight 3 --> The Next Post
 
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COMING SOON!




Flight 3:

[I'll Have Another] 98mm MD Bare All



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Design.


motor thrust curve.



Nose Cone:



Payload:



Upper Airframe:



Airframe:



Motor:



Motor:



Fins:




Pre-flight:



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Flight:


[video=youtube;4eRv4RUgVqA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eRv4RUgVqA[/video]



Recovery:



Flight Conclusion:




-->END.
 
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Why shoot up the 38mm case? Is it damaged somehow? I mean if it was still good and you won't be flying 38mm ever, why not just gift it to another rocketeer?
 
Why shoot up the 38mm case? Is it damaged somehow? I mean if it was still good and you won't be flying 38mm ever, why not just gift it to another rocketeer?

Notice the carbon on the case - it was used as a mandrel and the tube didn't release all the way.

3 large EX projects, Mat spent hours on the thread, and the only thing you glean from it is that he wasn't charitable enough with a compromised commercial case and ought to be chided for it. Tough crowd, you must have some projects more engaging than ours in the works - please share.
 
Three awesome flights. Can't wait to hear more about the third one. That one looked the best off the pad IMO but beautiful flights none the less. Interesting techniques on keeping the fins protected during the flight. Awesome work!

Matt
 
Why shoot up the 38mm case? Is it damaged somehow? I mean if it was still good and you won't be flying 38mm ever, why not just gift it to another rocketeer?

Because it is more fun to shoot it than go through the hassle of finding someone who wants a 38mm case for sale or for free. Your definition of good might be different than mine; the case works but has carbon bonded to it.
 
Cool thread Mat,

I had a great weekend with you and Steve down in New Mexico flying some large EX projects. Here are some pictures/video and data from my flight.

I flew my 3" minimum diameter rocket Torn Between Scylla and Charybdis (https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?60703-Torn-Between-Scylla-and-Charybdis) on an EX M2000 Tiger Tail in a 75/6000 (formerly a 75/7600). Here is a picture of the grains:
IMG_2685.jpg

My GoPro pad video:
[YOUTUBE]tG_pgsiyc-A[/YOUTUBE]

Video Mat took with his phone:
[YOUTUBE]bLIYwBQO9E8[/YOUTUBE]

The motor worked very well and performed very close to simulation; other than spitting a casting tube, I knew I should have glued those grains. It pushed the rocket to a max speed of M2.2 and an altitude of 23,700'. Below the Raven file is attached.

Lastly, here is an album of photos I took during the trip:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/130127023@N03/sets/72157649082274264/

Manny
 
Thanks everyone.

If Manny doesn't mind,

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Manny getting his vehicle ready.

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Some final tower adjustments.


Looks like your drive home was way cooler than ours, alien museum?
 
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Why shoot up the 38mm case? Is it damaged somehow? I mean if it was still good and you won't be flying 38mm ever, why not just gift it to another rocketeer?

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Anyway, thanks for sharing the extensive report guys those were some cool projects. Looking forward to seeing more.
 
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Awesome flights guys and I appreciate the full write-ups. Always nice to see detailed post flight reports.

rail buttons having to be added because some in control of the site voiced concern over an unknown EX motor and 5ft of tower guidance.

LOL... concerned about tower exit velocity on a minimum diameter rocket that's about to pull 50 G's. :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
 
Awesome stuff! Bummer on losing the second rocket. I am so far away from this level of rocketry, but I was really curious to see what the ablative on the fins of that rocket looked like after the flight.
 
LOL... concerned about tower exit velocity on a minimum diameter rocket that's about to pull 50 G's. :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Yes, and certainly justified after seeing it come up to speed slowly and cone off the rail. Maybe 30 G's at some point in the flight, but not off the pad. The effective length of the tower was more like 4ft. These are the sort of situations that our Tripoli insurance depends on the experience of the RSO so that we can keep flying. The Prefect, a TAP, and the RSO (with 25 years of HPR/EX experience [me]) all agreed it wasn't worth the risk. However, we didn't send them home, but open up my shop to come up with a way to attach buttons to a min-dia rocket that the motor had to stay in. I ground down a drill bit to a act as a flat mill tool. The boys drilled and JBWelded buttons on. I picked up the rocket for them from my shop in the morning and delivered it to the field. It was all good. I wanted to see if fly, too! :)
 
Great write up and flights! Really sorry you lost the last one. I'd have loved to see how that ablative turned out. I'm using phenolic microbaloons and epoxy for an M3-3.5 flight, and it looks very similar to what you are using.

With that 5in flying case, were you using a nozzle carrier or just pinning straight to the graphite?

Alex
 
Thank you everyone for the positive feedback, I am happy to take the time and share.

John,
Good to hear from you again, hope all is well. We are both very gracious for you letting us use your shop, thank you once again for going above and beyond. By the way the rocket ended up leaving the rail at ~38ft/s.


Alex,
Very much appreciated. I would of loved to see the ablative post flight also. We have another project that we are working on now (should be ready to fly in a month or two) that will have the same ablative on a portion of the fin can. So we will hopefully get to see it in action very soon; will be using reliable tracking systems from here on out. Sounds like my ablative is close to what you are doing though. As far as the 5", there was a pin ring, which retained the nozzle and also acted as the nozzle carrier.
 
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John,
Good to hear from you again, hope all is well. We are both very gracious for you letting us use your shop, thank you once again for going above and beyond. By the way the rocket ended up leaving the rail at ~38ft/s.

You're welcome. We had a good time, though I had hoped to find your rocket.

38ft/sec is about 26mph. I like to have 4x the wind speed for the exit velocity off the rail or tower. We had 8mph winds with gusts to 12mph. So, 32-48mph off the launch guide. The rail was a little slow, but the tower would have been around 1/2 the required velocity. Smallish fins are another reason to be a little more conservative.

One bonus lesson learned from this thread: Todd uses too many facepalm emoticons! ;-)
 
Awesome rockets, awesome motors, awesome flights, awesome thread! Thank you so much for taking the time to write up the projects/flights! Love it!

Hmmm, New Mexico is closer than Black Rock. How big of a waiver? When's the next launch?:wink:

Great job guys; well done all around!:cool:

-Eric-
 
Awesome rockets, awesome motors, awesome flights, awesome thread! Thank you so much for taking the time to write up the projects/flights! Love it!

Hmmm, New Mexico is closer than Black Rock. How big of a waiver? When's the next launch?:wink:

Great job guys; well done all around!:cool:

-Eric-

Eric,

We learned the whole thread concept from you. Glad to hear you approve!

I was glad to have been able to sell Manny on the trip down. Chuck wasn't having it; figured you've got the whole kids thing going on but all of y'all are welcome down here any time. Always great to see old TQC friends.

Waiver is 75k, though the FAA gave us 80 on the morning of the launch.
 
Here are some preliminary post flight pictures. The vehicle was found in NM by a rancher and has been picked up by John Demar, but has not been recovered yet by myself. Anyways everything worked (minus the tracking) and was overall a successful flight. The TeleBT ground station has been sent back to the manufacturer and I will update once the issue is known.

The paint used was VHT automotive paint good to 550F. It would appear that the paint and the Bondo came off, eating up and dissipating most of the heat before getting to the ablative. Also granted, this was by no means a extremely fast flight. Once I pick up the vehicle I will be able to fully inspect the fin can portion of the rocket.

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That is so awesome you are getting it back. Any idea how far away the landing was from where you launched? I'd be curious to know how far it's little walkabout was.
 
That is so awesome you are getting it back. Any idea how far away the landing was from where you launched? I'd be curious to know how far it's little walkabout was.

The redditor that originally posted the found rocket said his dad is 20 miles southwest of Las Cruces, where do the local boys launch at?
 
That is so awesome you are getting it back. Any idea how far away the landing was from where you launched? I'd be curious to know how far it's little walkabout was.

It landed about 5 miles from the pad. In the direction it was going, there's about another 4 miles to I-10. We got to within a 1/4 mile of where it landed, but no visual or RF for us to know.
 
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