Water Slide decal problems: HELP!

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Kirk G

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Encountered serious difficulty with the name decal last night. Got a small bowl of hot water and dripped a few drops of detergent into it. Then soaked the decal and it pulled off the paper, but the sides immediately curled.... producing an odd hour glass effect on the name "Loadstar II"... no matter how I smoothed it, it wouldn't straighten out, so I smoothed it as best I could, and now have a very unique decal on my rocket...one of a kind. Not sure what went wrong... I used the same technique as the night before... when I applied the triangles and had a deeper bowl of hotter water, I thought. Maybe slightly more detergent in this shallow bowl. Any suggestions? How common are these problems?

I am afraid to try to largest "wrap" decal around the "throat" of the rocket now, until I figure out what went wrong.... Any Help, guys?
 
One tip I've heard of and used was to spray the decal before you use it with a few coats of Acrylic clear coat before use. First test on some small area or junk portion before the rest and first coat should be light and succeeding coats (if first coat is good) a bit heavier. This seems to work with old and thin decals as well and I've used it twice with success.

The spray I used was Rust-oleum Acrylic Lacquer Gloss "Crystal Clear" and I haven't had issue with that spray melting any of the plastics I've tried it on. Results may vary. Best luck to you.
 
Also coincidentally I had decals peeling up on my Odd'l Little Green Man rocket last night after I applied them. It was only a bit on the edges of the fingernails & toenails, so I took an Elmers' X-treme Glue stick, added a bit of the glue to the curled edge and then stuck it down. I then clear coated the rocket today. Worked well for me, but again it was just a tiny bit of curled edge on very small decals.
 
After soaking and before you remove it from the backing you might try laying the decal on a damp paper towel and brushing it with Micro-Set wetting solution then slide it off the backing and onto the desired surface.

Be sure to use Micro-Set and not Micro-Sol. The latter is applied after the decal had dried and it softens the materiel so as to allow it to conform to irregular surfaces and flow over small details.
 
Oddly enough, I have never heard of using a detergent for decal apps. I get it when using wet vinyl apps. If you don't have the necessary wet app solutions, use some detergent so you can adjust the vinyl application. And since I don't often use decals, I'm at a loss for understanding the curling. I do know, that I have never used hot water. You don't need to. Manufactured decals usually work well in average temp water. Maybe the water temp is your nemesis here?
 
Here is a nice video with tips for applying water slide decals :)

[YOUTUBE]Pr5R9VCNVHU[/YOUTUBE]
 
Water slide decals should not have detergent in the water. It leaves a residue that can cause the decal to lift as it dries. Warm water is all thats required. 2 drops / qt of cold water is used as a "Wetting Agent" for applying VINYL Sticker type decals..not water slide.

Todays thinner printed Waterslide decals almost always require an overcoat of one of the UV clear coats. Be Sure the clear used has UV inhibitor or the decals well yellow badly in just a few months. Krylon #1305 UV resistant clear or Rustoleum UV resistant clear work very well.
it is important to apply either in two very light misting coats. The Larger the Decal the more important the over Coat clear is.

MicroScale "Micro-Sol" is a Great Setting solution that greatly decreases the curling effect of uncoated thin printed Water Slide Decals.

MicroScale also has "Liquid Decal Film". This material can be brushed on with a soft bristle brush, dries very quickly, without brush strokes.
Liquid Decal Film thins and cleans up with alcohol. Haven't tried this material on Large kit Name Decals, it works great on most other waterslide decals.
 
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Just to clarify, the edges of this long narrow decal curled upon removing it from the backing strip, while still in the water bath.
The first decal that I did, I pulled out of the bath, and then attempted to peel from the backing strip, and it stretched, some awful...but I still applied it. I waiting longer before sliding all the others.
 
"Just to clarify, the edges of this long narrow decal curled upon removing it from the backing strip, while still in the water bath.
The first decal that I did, I pulled out of the bath, and then attempted to peel from the backing strip, and it stretched, some awful...but I still applied it. I waiting longer before sliding all the others."


I just use warm water without soap,I think you going to fast the paper will curl, once it starts to flatten out then remove it from the water. I keep decal on the paper/backing bring it up to and lay it on the place where it will go and slowly with one finger slide it off.
if it needs to be moved after you slide the backing out then dip a finger in the water and dab the decal here and there and it should move.
 
OMG, by watching that video I now realize that I have been going about this wrong.

I have been dipping the paper and leaving it submersed until my thumb could start to slide the plastic decal layer a bit....AND THEN SLIDING IT ALL OFF WHILE STILL IN THE BATH.
Then I've been attempting to lay that wet, flimsy plastic down onto the rocket fin, sliding as necessary to position it. It never occurred to me that I was washing the adhesive off by removing or peeling it off in the bath.

I've saved the largest square for last, and I'm glad I got some advice before attempting it. I will not use any soap and not heat the water any this time. I'll drop the decal in the bath, and hold it down for a count of ten, and then bring it out to set for a while.
Since this is the big wrap that goes around the barrel of the body tube, I'm not certain how to slide it off in position, but I've got a better idea of how the water is supposed to penetrate from underneath the decal. Perhaps I can start one edge and roll the sheet off, around the curve of the body tube until it wraps and overlaps a little bit.

I'm not certain where I got the idea that I needed to add a drop of liquid dish detergent to the bath, but I think it's on the printed instructions from Estes...who supplied the water slide decals with the kit. So they should know, right? I mean, they would know that these aren't vinyl stickers or not, right?

PS: I've waited two days since the last final coat of paint to assure that it's dry and has finished "out-gassing," if any.
 
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Kirk, don't feel bad. I used to do the same thing, when I was a freshly minted BAR, until the folks here set me straight.

Enjoy the great feeling of mental sunrise, and be sure to post us a picture of the finished rocket! :grin:
 
OMG, by watching that video I now realize that I have been going about this wrong.

I have been dipping the paper and leaving it submersed until my thumb could start to slide the plastic decal layer a bit....AND THEN SLIDING IT ALL OFF WHILE STILL IN THE BATH.
Then I've been attempting to lay that wet, flimsy plastic down onto the rocket fin, sliding as necessary to position it. It never occurred to me that I was washing the adhesive off by removing or peeling it off in the bath.

I've saved the largest square for last, and I'm glad I got some advice before attempting it. I will not use any soap and not heat the water any this time. I'll drop the decal in the bath, and hold it down for a count of ten, and then bring it out to set for a while.
Since this is the big wrap that goes around the barrel of the body tube, I'm not certain how to slide it off in position, but I've got a better idea of how the water is supposed to penetrate from underneath the decal. Perhaps I can start one edge and roll the sheet off, around the curve of the body tube until it wraps and overlaps a little bit.

I'm not certain where I got the idea that I needed to add a drop of liquid dish detergent to the bath, but I think it's on the printed instructions from Estes...who supplied the water slide decals with the kit. So they should know, right? I mean, they would know that these aren't vinyl stickers or not, right?

PS: I've waited two days since the last final coat of paint to assure that it's dry and has finished "out-gassing," if any.

Good god man;
If they told you in the instructions to jump of a bridge would you? DO NOT put detergent in Water slide decal water. This Printed Error has been disproved for DECADES. Don't do it.
You may have seen this MIS-information in Estes instructions or from some of the other decal printing guys, Excelsor I believe Had or Has this mistake in their instructions he's been told many times about the error.

To be honest this all started DECADES AGO with the Plastic model folks. One of the giants of the time (mid 80's IIRC) Suggested a drop of detergent "Might" help.. Well that started the craze and it perpetuated itself On and On to this very day. you'll read this suggested in the premier Plastic Model mag Fine Scale Model. but the practice has been disproved over and Over these many years. On static models the lifting is not as pronounced as on our flying models. But reguardless of what model your appling decals to "Just Don't Do it".

Todays computer printed Inkjet and laser printed decals are MUCH thinner inks then the much better produced Silk Screened decals. As mentioned before if you not really careful with them you will stretch them as the clear overcoating is also quite thin. I've found it is best to add a fresh layer of Krylon #1306 workable fixatif before a wet coat of Krylon #1305 Gloss or #1309 matte UV resistant clear before cutting your decals from the backing sheet. This Extra thickness greatly reduces the stretch factor when applying.

The other plastic model myth that still persists to this day is to Wash your entire plastic model parts with soap and water before assembly to remove any "mold release" left behind. this has caused thousands of paint adheasion problems over the years and most plastic model folks don't listen to such. Way back in the old day the Mold release residue may have been a problem but it is a much better practice to whip the parts down with alcohol rather then soap and water.

you can try Counting to 10 but i've found a 10count is usually NOT enought for most currently avaliable Water Slide decals. Try a Count to 20, After dipping your decals in water for about 20Seconds let the Relax on a paper towel for about 1 minute before attempting to slide them around on the backing sheet. If they seem tight to the backing after sitting on the towel for that minute it is OK to re-dip them for another 5-10 seconds or so and re-rest them before trying to apply.

It is also a very good Idea to wet with PLAIN water or Micro-Sol the area where you intend to place the new decal. This will allow the decal to be repositioned (A LITTLE) with a damp piece of paper towel,Q-tip or Bristle Brush tip before you gently pat off the excess water with a damp paper towel.
 
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It went much better, and the barrel roll body tube wrap decal went on pretty easily. I'm letting it dry out today and will cover with a coat of Future Floor Polish tonight after midnight. I'll try adding a photo before and after this step to show the finished product...and the odd hour glass stretch/fold over that I've got on two of the decals.
 
Someone had asked to see photos of the finished project, and I got around to it tonight.IMG_20150330_245915547_HDR[1].jpg
IMG_20150330_245915547_HDR[1].jpg
 
Someone had asked to see photos of the finished project, and I got around to it tonight.View attachment 259543
IMG_20150322_233209585_HDR[1].jpgIMG_20150322_233209585_HDR[1].jpgSo, you'll note that I had to clean off the scorch mark before putting the decals down. And if you look the "LOADSTAR II" decal is a bit hour-glass shaped now, but it works.
 

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Someone had asked to see photos of the finished project, and I got around to it tonight.View attachment 259543
View attachment 259546View attachment 259546So, you'll note that I had to clean off the scorch mark before putting the decals down. And if you look the "LOADSTAR II" decal is a bit hour-glass shaped now, but it works.

Great to see you got the problem worked out Kirk G:

Just about all the model paint manufacturers offer at least one "Decal Set" solution. Testors has two, One in the regular little square 1/4oz bottle #8804, and Testors Master Modeler series 1/2oz bottles "Decal Set" #1737. These are easily found at most anyplace that sells Hobby paints. My Preference is by far MicroScale "Micro-Sol" but it is sometimes hard to find. Be sure to read the Decal application insturctions on the far right hand bottle.....NO Soap in the water PLEASE.

Use of the above Decal Setting solutions and adding a UV clear overcoat before cutting out your decals from the sheet will greatly reduce or eliminate the Stretching problem for the future.
 

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Looks like you got it. Don't slide the decal off until its laid on the rocket, the slide off slowly and pull the paper out from underneath it. Now you know!
 
I just had a question with regard to humidity. Have you found humidity affects whether or not the decal slides off properly. I have been having a heck of a time getting them off the paper today and it's very humid. I am hoping that is the problem and I am not just completely losing my touch. Any experience with this?
 
Does anyone have any experience with these sheets you can buy to print your own water slide decals?

There are some very good recommendations in this thread (and some that aren't the best). I have a fair amount of experience making and applying my own decals much of it you can view on this Facebook page but if you have any questions please ask.

 
Thanks jahall4, I'm not a facebook user (when I can avoid it). More searches here last night revealed several other threads on the topic that were more recent. I think I'm going to go with the laser paper as opposed to the inkjet paper.

The method that is oft reported as having good results is to spray the sheet with clear coat just after printing (let dry) and before application. Seems to make the most sense to me.
 
Thanks jahall4, I'm not a facebook user (when I can avoid it). More searches here last night revealed several other threads on the topic that were more recent. I think I'm going to go with the laser paper as opposed to the inkjet paper.

The method that is oft reported as having good results is to spray the sheet with clear coat just after printing (let dry) and before application. Seems to make the most sense to me.
The clear coat is needed on the inkjet decal paper because the ink is water soluble and will dissolve when exposed to water. NOT NECESSARY for color laser toner. But you may want to add a clear coat on the entire rocket later as protection from dirt/scuffing. Future floor polish also works.
 
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Thanks jahall4, I'm not a facebook user (when I can avoid it).

Then you are limiting yourself from lots of good info about rocketry. Several pages I could recommend. Unlike this forum, the Facebook format lends itself well to quickly posting photos and video and then commenting. Add to that Events (e.g. rocket launches), Notes where you can practically write a book, and finally Private Messaging and you have just about everything you need to communicate with other rocketers. :)
 
Thanks Stickersohock. I'm aware of your product and have used similar products in the past and will again some day ..... on a really big project :)

The wet and slide is for a F9 3D printed project .... going lowtech for this one.
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Nice build. The blue SpaceX/Falcon 9 logo should look good on the white background. Sometimes colors "disappear" in home printed decals on a dark background.
 
Bummer! While off to get my phone to take a picture my cat decided to knock the F9 off the counter.
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Stickers turned out really well though. Went with inkjet (colors are not as vibrant) coated with clear prior to application. Really pleased overall. Will do more of these stickers.

BTW the cat is outside enjoying our subzero temperatures for a while. Stupid cat!
 
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