What size screw/screw head fits into a Makerbeam slot?

lcorinth · Mar 23, 2015

I'd like to build a smaller version of this rail launch pad to go with my 1500mm long Makerbeam, to use with micro buttons on smaller rockets. Instead of attaching the rail to the launcher with rail buttons, I'd like to use screws - with screw heads sticking out slightly so that I can slide the rail in place at the field.

I'm not too familiar with... well, a lot of hardware stuff. I'd rather not carry the whole long rail into Lowe's, but I'm wondering what size or type of screws will slide easily into the rail. Does anybody know the answer to this? I found a few machine screw size charts through Google, but I think what I'm seeing is the diameter of the threaded part of the screw, not the screw head. I'd need both to fit - the threaded part through the slot, and the head in the T.

Thanks!

Micromeister · Mar 23, 2015

lcorinth said:
I'd like to build a smaller version of this rail launch pad to go with my 1500mm long Makerbeam, to use with micro buttons on smaller rockets. Instead of attaching the rail to the launcher with rail buttons, I'd like to use screws - with screw heads sticking out slightly so that I can slide the rail in place at the field.

I'm not too familiar with... well, a lot of hardware stuff. I'd rather not carry the whole long rail into Lowe's, but I'm wondering what size or type of screws will slide easily into the rail. Does anybody know the answer to this? I found a few machine screw size charts through Google, but I think what I'm seeing is the diameter of the threaded part of the screw, not the screw head. I'd need both to fit - the threaded part through the slot, and the head in the T.

Thanks!

The machine screw size to fit the Makerbeam slots is 2-56" x 1/4" to 5/16" Binder Head machine screws. OD Length can be adjusted to fit your choice of nylon shoulder sleeves.

Not sure why your looking at switching to metal m.s. I've been launching models up to BT-60 size on D & E motors using the 2-56" nylon screws supplied with the rail buttons.

Micromeister · Mar 23, 2015

Randys Micro buttons of at www.railbuttons.com the nylon Shoulders were to long for my taste leaving two much gap between the Rail and model body.
I made a simple trimming jig so I can trim both nylon Screws and Shoulder Spacers at the same time with a single edge razor blade or #11 X-Axto. see photos below.

etoyoc · Mar 23, 2015

I suppose maybe I misread the OP, but I thought he wasn't asking about rail buttons. I thought he was asking about what size bolt/screw head fits in the rail slot. I am seeing this project as needing a bolt that would go through a bit of PVC with a wing nut on the other end and a head sticking for the rail. Slide the rail down the two bolt heads and then tighten the wing nuts and the rail is attached to the PVC stand. I like this idea and if it isn't what you are asking about, I would like to know the answer anyway as I may make one of these for my own use.

Honestly, I don't have an answer to that as I don't have a micro rail to try. Off the top of my head, I would start with a #6 pan head machine screw. However, as I said, I don't have a makerbeam rail to check to see if that will fit. You might also try a #6 flat head machine screw. Let us know what ends up working!

lcorinth · Mar 23, 2015

etoyoc said:
I suppose maybe I misread the OP, but I thought he wasn't asking about rail buttons. I thought he was asking about what size bolt/screw head fits in the rail slot. I am seeing this project as needing a bolt that would go through a bit of PVC with a wing nut on the other end and a head sticking for the rail. Slide the rail down the two bolt heads and then tighten the wing nuts and the rail is attached to the PVC stand. I like this idea and if it isn't what you are asking about, I would like to know the answer anyway as I may make one of these for my own use.

Honestly, I don't have an answer to that as I don't have a micro rail to try. Off the top of my head, I would start with a #6 pan head machine screw. However, as I said, I don't have a makerbeam rail to check to see if that will fit. You might also try a #6 flat head machine screw. Let us know what ends up working!

Exactly. The design uses rail buttons to hold the rail onto the launch pad. I'm not crazy about that idea. I already have micro buttons from rail-buttons.com, and I'm looking to use the screw heads to hold the rail onto the upright PVC beam.

I hadn't thought of using wing nuts to tighten it down. That's a great idea, and would be much more secure.

rocketguy101 · Mar 23, 2015

For the Makerbeam it looks like a #2 is the biggest head that will fit inside

lcorinth · Mar 24, 2015

rocketguy101 said:
For the Makerbeam it looks like a #2 is the biggest head that will fit inside

Excellent. Thanks!

Micromeister · Mar 24, 2015

lcorinth said:
Excellent. Thanks!

Daniel:
Sorry I did mis-read your original post.
Just so you understand. The Slot in the 10mm Makerbeam fits a #2 pan head Sheet metal screw or 2-56" Binder Head Machine Screw. 2-56" pan head Machine screws might work with a very tight fit for attaching the beam to your PVC. I'd suggest Using Longer machine screws with 2-56 Wing Nuts if you can find a machine screw long enough to pass completely through your PVC tube.

etoyoc · Mar 24, 2015

Finding that long of a 2-56 may be a challenge in a local store. Based on that infographic (thanks for sharing that pic David), I will probably look at getting an Openbeam for my setup.

rocketguy101 · Mar 24, 2015

etoyoc said:
Finding that long of a 2-56 may be a challenge in a local store. Based on that infographic (thanks for sharing that pic David), I will probably look at getting an Openbeam for my setup.

The problem with the Openbean (at least for me) I can't find a length longer than 900mm. I want something closer to 1500mm for launching larger MPR. I know some folks have successfully joined two 900mm Openbeams, and I am working on that.

I ordered a 1500mm Makerbeam, and plan to try it out this Saturday (weather permitting

) but the sleeve on the micro button seems to ride tight inside the rail. It is silky-smooth in the larger Openbeam. Based on the fit test, I would opt for Openbeam too.

EDIT: ps: and don't try the Mitsumi 15mm rail...it is too large for the micro button.

etoyoc · Mar 24, 2015

True, the openbeam is shorter. I also don't need to purchase a 6 pack on Amazon. With the Makerbeam, it is only purchasing 2.

lcorinth · Mar 24, 2015

Micromeister said:
Daniel:
Sorry I did mis-read your original post.
Just so you understand. The Slot in the 10mm Makerbeam fits a #2 pan head Sheet metal screw or 2-56" Binder Head Machine Screw. 2-56" pan head Machine screws might work with a very tight fit for attaching the beam to your PVC. I'd suggest Using Longer machine screws with 2-56 Wing Nuts if you can find a machine screw long enough to pass completely through your PVC tube.

I think I'm going to try that. Since I'm building this for low power, not high power, I think I can safely get away with narrower PVC. I'll head to Lowe's or Menard's in a couple of days to see what I can find.

Thanks for the recommendation!

lcorinth · Mar 24, 2015

rocketguy101 said:
The problem with the Openbean (at least for me) I can't find a length longer than 900mm. I want something closer to 1500mm for launching larger MPR. I know some folks have successfully joined two 900mm Openbeams, and I am working on that.

I ordered a 1500mm Makerbeam, and plan to try it out this Saturday (weather permitting ) but the sleeve on the micro button seems to ride tight inside the rail. It is silky-smooth in the larger Openbeam. Based on the fit test, I would opt for Openbeam too.

EDIT: ps: and don't try the Mitsumi 15mm rail...it is too large for the micro button.

I did notice the tight fit on the Makerbeam when I tested it. Please let me know how it goes!

Micromeister · Mar 24, 2015

Daniel:
As mentioned earlier finding 2-56" x anything longer then about 1" is going to be very hard at even the most will stocked local store. I'm sure Lowe's will not have them.
I purchase most of my hardware on-line from McMaster-Carr www.mcmaster.com but the longest 2-56 PH machine screw they show is a 50 pk x 1-1/4" long.

There are a number of other ways to mount your Rail in your launcher base. I chose to sleeve the 10mm rail into a brass tube with a 3/16" Stub Stainless steel rod to mount into any of my or the clubs launcher bases.
You could also set the rail in epoxy in a PVC Coupling the would friction fit on whatever size PVC pipe your using. This would allow the use of a simple set screw or two to hold the 1500mm rail fixed to the Launcher base.

On a related note: My 1500mm rail requires my Heavy Steel Tri-pod base to be staked down when flying Model rockets as the added surface area makes the launcher subject to tipping in even moderate breezes of 10-12mph.
With these Longer Rails a Wider footprint and heavier base just becomes the norm

rocketguy101 · Mar 24, 2015

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...ailButtons-com)-Beta-Test&p=709149#post709149 this is how I attached my rail to a wood block...I drilled holes through the rail and used nuts (3/16" dia screws). The nuts are either covered by the blast deflector, or they will act as stops to keep your rocket from dropping off the bottom of the rail.

Larry W · Nov 7, 2015

Dave Great post. I will laminate those pics for those on the field so they can see what fits what. We started using the smaller rails and many are interested in trying them. The visual really makes it simple and answers all the questions.

rocketguy101 said:
For the Makerbeam it looks like a #2 is the biggest head that will fit inside

TopRamen · May 26, 2016

For Makerbeam, the ONLY way to go is with METAL.
Even for the buttons.
It's like greased lightning compared to "Micro-buttons".
That's just how it is folks.
DEAL WITH IT.

When a vendor makes a nice metal Micro-button, I'll buy it. Til' then, thanks but no thanks.

Just use these, you'll thank yourself for it, and the difference in velocity leaving the rail is obvious, so go ahead and argue with me about it if you feel like losing an argument.

I have no qualms mounting an RCBS Chrony to the top of a Rail, but I'm not sure how well it will work yet.

Wonderful Machine Screws 2002-12-31 002.jpg

I've obviously tried them ALL.
Compared to plastic micro-buttons, the difference is SO obvious.

[video=youtube;L-9O2SfrPMA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-9O2SfrPMA[/video]

[video=youtube;TD6WkVX3sUs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD6WkVX3sUs[/video]

retortec · May 27, 2016

I use the #2 screw to mount the beam. But getting them long enough to go through anything on a launch platform is a bit of a challenge. So I made threaded pegs to reach across the gap of the hollow stock. Way easier than a wing nut and you can mount the beam to whatever. Much harder to loose also. I use the Mico Buttons but the beam needs to be prepped. Running a gap gauge down the slot I found it is not consistent.

lcorinth · May 28, 2016

retortec said:
I use the #2 screw to mount the beam. But getting them long enough to go through anything on a launch platform is a bit of a challenge. So I made threaded pegs to reach across the gap of the hollow stock. Way easier than a wing nut and you can mount the beam to whatever. Much harder to loose also. I use the Mico Buttons but the beam needs to be prepped. Running a gap gauge down the slot I found it is not consistent.
View attachment 292208 View attachment 292209

How do you prep the beam? A friend suggested running a pencil in the slot to get some graphite lubrication in there, but last time I launched, I forgot to bring a pencil.

The pad worked great, but the rockets seemed a little slow off the rail. I've considered leaving the sleeve off the button, and just using the screw, but that seems kind of wiggly.

retortec · May 28, 2016

lcorinth said:
How do you prep the beam? A friend suggested running a pencil in the slot to get some graphite lubrication in there, but last time I launched, I forgot to bring a pencil.

The pad worked great, but the rockets seemed a little slow off the rail. I've considered leaving the sleeve off the button, and just using the screw, but that seems kind of wiggly.

I start by finding something I can drag through the slot with some 400 grit sand paper folded over it. In my scrap aluminum I found a pice of flat stock that was nice. But it can be wood also. Cardboard is not stiff enough. The fit should be just snug and not a jam fit. As you slid along the rail you will feel the tight and loose spots. The idea is to remove just enough on the narrow sections. Card stock can be added behind the sand paper to adjust the fit. Some rails are worse than others. Finish up with some super fine paper. I have also taken to prepping the top hat of the rail button when needed. I spin them on a screw chucked up in my drill. While it is spinning you touch it with a needle file. The important thing to remember is remove just enough to get it done on the rail or button.

TopRamen · May 28, 2016

There's really no need to use the buttons just because a rocketry vendor makes them.
Try screws, and if you are worried about the threads, fill the threads with some epoxy.
Unless you want "Slow off the rail" rockets. Then keep using nylon sleeves.

Eventually, a rocketry vendor will step up to the plate to fill the need for a proper aluminum rail guide for makerbeam.
I'm going to be trying a CF rail guide later today, and I'll let you know how that work out.

TopRamen · May 28, 2016

From now on I'll just make my rail guides out of CF.

Carbon Fiber 13mm Star Trooper Finished 2016-05-28 009.jpg

Carbon Fiber 13mm Star Trooper Finished 2016-05-28 007.jpg

[video=youtube;8bloYEvuGGs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bloYEvuGGs[/video]

retortec · Jun 7, 2016

Well I've never been called slow off the rail. But to each his own. I was pulling my stuff for a launch next weekend and took a picture of the Maker Beam mounted on the launcher. The picture of the adapter may have been a little confusing. It was made out of 1/2" square steel tubing. The base is 3/4" aluminum adapter machined to fit my launchers 20mm rail socket. One face of the stock is drilled for the #2 screw. The opposite face is drilled for the pegs to pass through. The rail is captured on one face of the stock.

Micromeister · Jun 9, 2016

TopRamen said:
There's really no need to use the buttons just because a rocketry vendor makes them.
Try screws, and if you are worried about the threads, fill the threads with some epoxy.
Unless you want "Slow off the rail" rockets. Then keep using nylon sleeves.

Sorry Top But that is just not correct. I have not a problem in the world using the suppled nylon MS and Flanged shoulder supplied although I do shorten the shoulder length to prevent binding. My rail speeds are equal to using metal MS of the same size. We'll just have to agree to disagree that Rail-buttons.com
Mini and Micro buttons work just fine.

TopRamen · Jun 9, 2016

Micromeister said:
TopRamen said:

There's really no need to use the buttons just because a rocketry vendor makes them.
Try screws, and if you are worried about the threads, fill the threads with some epoxy.
Unless you want "Slow off the rail" rockets. Then keep using nylon sleeves.

Sorry Top But that is just not correct. I have not a problem in the world using the suppled nylon MS and Flanged shoulder supplied although I do shorten the shoulder length to prevent binding. My rail speeds are equal to using metal MS of the same size. We'll just have to agree to disagree that Rail-buttons.com
Mini and Micro buttons work just fine.

Click to expand...

We are quite aware that you are the only person who is satisfied with "Micro-Buttons", but sorry, the difference is too obvious to try to deny it.
I'm not even being a jerk, it is just an observable FACT, which makes it not only correct, but science.

I've made it plain that I admire your talents and learn lots from you. I'm really not trying to just argue with you.
I got the Micro-Buttons to work well too on a couple rockets, but it took extra time and I don't want to spend that much time just making the rocket slide freely on the rail.
Yes, it can be done, and they can be made to work, but why struggle????

Matter of fact, I'de like to send you a couple of my carbon fiber rail guides to test and compare if you PM me your address.
I only want to share the goodness.

Tell me the dimensions you need, and I'll gladly make you a couple sets. I would be honored if you would attach them to any of your creations and deem them flight worthy.

dixontj93060 · Jun 9, 2016

Micromeister said:
We'll just have to agree to disagree ...Rail-buttons.com Mini and Micro buttons work just fine.

+1.

TopRamen · Jun 9, 2016

dixontj93060 said:
+1.

Or we could agree to pool our resources and come up with a better solution for everyone to enjoy.

Sometimes we have to get over ourselves to find the best solutions, and as individuals do not have the time and resources to find the best answer.

I'm going to start making CF rods in the next couple of days that can be machined, so stay tuned if you are not a fan of rail guide styles.

I'll even go so far as to say that it is clear and present that Micro-Buttons are GARBAGE, and the manufacturer has known this as indicated in one of the other threads, yet they continue to sell them at the requisite rate, so a re-design has not been done.
They obviously do not read the threads here often enough to realize that there are many problems with their micro-buttons, nor do they have access to the Emails I get from members here that are thankful for my solution, but feel bad if they back me up in public since they fly with clubs that like to do stupid $%^&, and don't wan't to risk their reputation by publicly admitting that they tried the screws and the screws were a million times better.
Imagine how many members here don't even have my E-mail Address, and try it on their own and like it and don't bother to tell me thank you???
Their 1010 buttons are great, and I'd still buy those from them if I was young and dumb, but the micro-buttons are worthy of ridicule, and will be held to account.

dixontj93060 · Jun 9, 2016

TopRamen said:
Or we could agree to pool our resources and come up with a better solution for everyone to enjoy.

Sometimes we have to get over ourselves to find the best solutions, and as individuals do not have the time and resources to find the best answer.

I'm going to start making CF rods in the next couple of days that can be machined, so stay tuned if you are not a fan of rail guide styles.

I'll even go so far as to say that it is clear and present that Micro-Buttons are GARBAGE, and the manufacturer has known this as indicated in one of the other threads, yet they continue to sell them at the requisite rate, so a re-design has not been done.
They obviously do not read the threads here often enough to realize that there are many problems with their micro-buttons, nor do they have access to the Emails I get from members here that are thankful for my solution, but feel bad if they back me up in public since they fly with clubs that like to do stupid $%^&, and don't wan't to risk their reputation by publicly admitting that they tried the screws and the screws were a million times better.
Imagine how many members here don't even have my E-mail Address, and try it on their own and like it and don't bother to tell me thank you???
Their 1010 buttons are great, and I'd still buy those from them if I was young and dumb, but the micro-buttons are worthy of ridicule, and will be held to account.

I mis-stated. I don't know what the heck micro-buttons are... I only have used 1010, 1515 and mini-buttons from Rail-buttons.com and other manufacturers and they work great as long as you have the proper rail. Will I ever use something smaller than the mini-buttons? Highly unlikely.

TopRamen · Jun 10, 2016

I make plenty of crappy stuff that I never post about and that you will never see, but atleast I accept constructive criticism well and adapt to make the things that I do share with the online forum community.
If I was an actual vendor, I would hold myself to a much higher standard, and any criticisms I found of my products here on the Rocketry Forum would be immediately addressed, and refunds issued to customers that ended up having to make their own version of the product.
There is no excuse for anything that goes into a rail slot to bind or drag in any fashion whatsoever in my opinion. If it does not slide so freely as it should, it goes in my trash, which usually is quite full on a ten to one ratio of Failure VS. Success. (I actually have to find places that are public to put some of the stuff, and since I feel bad about the free trash removal, I go to those places and sneek my scraps in with stuff I pick up there as a good citizen, and put in there containers) I'm a little ashamed of it, but it gives me a reason to walk my Dog and find things that inspire me and aid my builds. If I had to pay for the removal of all the garbage/waste products I produce, I'de need corporate sponsorship.
I would not dare share anything I did that failed as horribly as Micro-Buttons do. Right in the trash those would go if I had not given them away to someone who felt like they could make them work.

Micromeister · Jun 12, 2016

Look Top:
Just because you can't make micro-buttons work doesn't mean they are garbage. While they were a first run and did have a minor issue they are easily and completely adjustable with nothing more the an X-Acto knife and a small needle file. Completely freeing the buttons to near frictionless sliding.
If you don't like them don't bother using them but I'd really appreciate it if you'd stop bad mouthing the manufacturer, who makes stuff for all of us.
If you think making carbon fiber launch rods is a good Idea...it's not. CF Shreads over time giving off shards that are dangerous to people and other living things.
Making fiberglass rail buttons or H-beams to fit makerbeam rails might be something worth looking at. That said there are already a number of Plastruct H and I styrene beams that have been working just fine as Launch lugs on scale models in NAR competition for DECADES. I never really looked at "Rail Buttons" as they were always obtrusive, big nasty looking things compared to a couple small H beam Lugs or circular .022" Stainless Wire "Antenna Lugs" on scale models.
I really think we've beat the dead horse way more then needs to be.

What size screw/screw head fits into a Makerbeam slot?

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