AT L1000W SU Problems--read this before flying it

I picked up an Aerotech L1000W SU motor from my vendor Friday afternoon and attempted to fly it this morning. Needless to say, after a short lift-off, my PW Competitor 3 came apart via a motor CATO. Initial forensics indicated a case failure just forward of the nozzle, spitting the whole upper part of the motor and still burning grains through the forward end of the airframe. The nozzle and parts of the case were wedged in the motor retainer.

Ironically, two Aerotech employees drove up about 20 minutes later. What alarmed me is that one of them indicated that they were coming out with a "new and improved" version of the L1000 due to failures exactly like this one. The new casing is apparently stronger. What got my attention was when he said 18 of these motors went out into the field with the marginal casings. So, I blew up one of the 18, and I don't know how many more are left of that suspect population. I am surprised a recall has not been done with a known bad motor.

While AT said they will cover the motor via the warranty, that doesn't scratch the cost of the rocket and everything lost in the CATO for a known bad product. Electronics did not survive, and the rebuild viability of the rocket is questionable. After all, the same rocket was CATO'd by a KBA K1750R last Springfest, so this one's had a hard life. Looks fixable, but I'd rather not be fixing CATOs on the same rocket...again.

Motor shot into upper airframe and got snared by coupler eyebolt


Grains shot out of the forward end of the lower airframe


Looking at the aft (where the nozzle should be) part of the motor


Motor ID


Nozzle stuck in the motor retainer


Just call me the CATO King, as this was my fifth one in 12 months (1 CTI, 4 AT--one SU L1000W, one KBA K1750R, one RMS J510W, one RMS-EZ I357T).

Well that sucks because I have one. Is there a way to tell if it's part of the bad batch?

Sorry about your rocket.

Exactimator said:

Well that sucks because I have one. Is there a way to tell if it's part of the bad batch?

Sorry about your rocket.

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Since the new and improved one just showed up in testing on their FB page yesterday, I am guessing any L1000 in a customer's hands as of now is suspect.

Hopefully an AT employee will comment here. Otherwise, I'm going to give them a call. If I blow apart my X-Celerator with a motor that was known to be flawed, I'll be more than a little angry.

Exactimator said:

Hopefully an AT employee will comment here.

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I'd contact the vendor you bought the motor from right now. They'll deal with it, I expect.

I have one of the L1000s as well. I think I will wait on using it until this is figured out

Make your own, no one else to blame


JD

Exactimator said:

Hopefully an AT employee will comment here. Otherwise, I'm going to give them a call. If I blow apart my X-Celerator with a motor that was known to be flawed, I'll be more than a little angry.

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Agreed - I was going to try for my personal max altitude at LDRS with the L1000 in my X-Celerator. Now I am a bit nervous. Just sent an email to AT and will wait for their response.

You should file a MESS report. You could also send this to Paul Holmes and Bill Spadafora. I certainly think you should do all of the above.

I've seen exactly ONE of the new L1000's launch without incident. The other one blew up.

markkoelsch said:

You should file a MESS report. You could also send this to Paul Holmes and Bill Spadafora. I certainly think you should do all of the above.

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Submitted. However, I see a MESS report as somewhat reactionary--takes time and failures to show a trend. Maybe I am wrong in this assessment--set me straight if warranted.

What could have proactively prevented this was if the company knew they had a bad product and took measures to immediately fix the problem, such as through a recall. The "new and improved L1000W" addressing casing strength indicates AT knew there was a problem. Why let the flyers roll the dice without knowing about it?

I lost way more in $$$ rocket pieces & parts than the warranty will cover with a replacement motor that I am highly skeptical to ever trust or use again. In addition to talking to two Aerotech employees earlier today, I've emailed AT for the warranty options. I am hoping I am missing some of the facts and Aerotech can chime in and clarify the situation.

markkoelsch said:

You should file a MESS report. You could also send this to Paul Holmes and Bill Spadafora. I certainly think you should do all of the above.

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I read all the MESS reports (I saw his last night) but this is a TRA certified motor so you should make sure Paul is aware.

In a case like this where they know its a bad motor they should cover rocket and build time. Why isn't there a recall on the motors sent out? What if someone gets hurt because of one of the other 17 motors that may cato?

I emailed a link to this thread to both Gary Rosenfield and to Paul Holmes. We shall see what happens.

Viperfixr said:

What could have proactively prevented this was if the company knew they had a bad product and took measures to immediately fix the problem, such as through a recall. The "new and improved L1000W" addressing casing strength indicates AT knew there was a problem. Why let the flyers roll the dice without knowing about it?

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^^^ THIS!!! ^^^

i would have much more respect for this manufacture, or any for that matter if they would just send out a message to dealers as soon as they are at a point when they realize that an "improved design" was needed. 18 motor recall is way better than 18 pissed off flyers with trashed rockets.

I got a reply from Gary. I would take up any issues with him and Karl. Email posted with Gary's permission

"Hi Mark,

We had a small number of isolated failures reported that didn¹t warrant a
recall. We have been experimenting with a new case configuration and a
video was posted to FB of the test. We have never actually had a failure
on the stand or in certification.

Karl is in charge of warranty and should be made aware of any failures,
[email protected]. If he is perceiving a pattern then we will
issue an announcement.

Thanks,

Gary"

So, if you have had issues with the L1000 you need to report it to them. I would also be sure to email Pail Holmes and file a mess report.

Okay, now I'm curious. How many L1000's do you think were manufactured?

billspad said:

Okay, now I'm curious. How many L1000's do you think were manufactured?

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I was going to ask a similar question.
How many have been manufactured?
Anyway to figure out how many have actually flown?
And then how many failed?

18 out of 20 - need a recall
18 out of 200 - worrisome
18 out of 2000 - probably reasonable odds - go light the fuse

I had an L1000 with the same nozzle problem last weekend. Fortunately, the motor wasn't able to get past the fin can bulkheads (I always use 2) and the grains snuffed rather than toasting the rocket. Damage was easy to repair. Like the comments previously, I have no idea why Aerotech would not issue a notice so that rockets are not destroyed, fields are not set on fire, people are not injured, etc. I just have no idea why ...

Jim

les said:

I was going to ask a similar question.
How many have been manufactured?
Anyway to figure out how many have actually flown?
And then how many failed?

18 out of 20 - need a recall
18 out of 200 - worrisome
18 out of 2000 - probably reasonable odds - go light the fuse

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I didn't get the impression that 18 was the number that had failed. I thought it was the number now in the field that had been manufactured with the old case configuration.

I have 2 of them purchased around LDRS 2014 are they safe to fly?

crossfire said:

I have 2 of them purchased around LDRS 2014 are they safe to fly?

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Gary, if I were you I would email Aerotech and ask. People seem to be having legitimate issues, and if they can trace the issue to a particular batch so much the better.

crossfire said:

I have 2 of them purchased around LDRS 2014 are they safe to fly?

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Glue fins on them ...

They do say "disposable" on them. Maybe you're suppose do that *before* putting them in a rocket. :wink:

I talked to one of the two AT reps at Springfest in Las Vegas.. and they reiterated that multiple test fires in a test stand went off perfectly ..so no one is shipping known problem motors.

That being said have one arriving Tuesday and will follow up with selling vendor before firing.

We do not have a onsite dealer at our launches anymore..so this potential problem will cost $80 freight to cover both ways.

Kenny

So I got one of these last Black Friday for a Rocketry Warehouse G3, hopefully my ROCStock project... should I be worried?

Sometimes I wonder if large SU motors like this are really a good idea.

I know they have their uses but it seems like the casing material isn't always up to the task.:wink:

Dang that’s harsh.
That being said; I wish you had video.

I was thinking about using one of these at AirFest 2015 but now methinks I’ll spend the bucks for a Loki case and use his 54mm L’s instead.

Aerotech just released a memo about the L1000....should be the answer people have been waiting for.

Preston

See the announcement here: I posted I behalf of Gary and Karl at Aerotech

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?124153-Aerotech-L1000W-Notice&p=1438415#post1438415