Launching Rockets with the Cub Scouts

Thanks for the Model Rocket Safety: For Educators... A cautionary tale article. It was a good primer.

In the next few weeks we'll be launching rockets with the cub scouts. Last week and this this week we'll be building Quest Aerospace Starhawk Model Rockets. The are a very simple rocket. Initially it was just going to be 14 Bear scouts, now another 16 Webelos will be joining us. We will be launching the rockets twice, the first time with an A8-3 motor the second launch will be with a B6-4 motor.

In the interest of time I was thinking of doing a Drag Race and having the scouts launch two rockets at the same time. We will have each den draw number from 1 to 14/16 , this will determine the launch order. To keep the Scouts safe all scouts will be kept on the gravel road back from the launch area except the scout currently launching and their adult. The road is typically upwind of the area that we'll be launching. We have review the some of the Estes education on Newton's laws and their flyer on a typical model rocket flight. Last week the bears finished their rockets and we showed them how in install the recovery wadding in the rockets. Last but not least we reviewed the NAR rules.

We are fortunate that a local park has given us permission to launch in a field near their Administration building, it is currently unused and was bush hogged last fall. It's fenced on two sides and has a road on the other two, it's 600' x 800'. There are two 8' x 16" concrete slabs near the center that we will use to launch from.


The process will be as follows:

• The two scouts on-deck will have two adult leaders help them prepare the rocket for launch.
  • They will look into the unprepared rocket and make sure that it is clear.
  • Put 3 sheets of wadding in each rocket
  • Fold the streamer and put the streamer and shock cord in the rocket.
  • Put the nose cone on the rocket and make sure that it still fits correctly. We checked the Bears and will check the Webelos after they're built but I'm sure some of them will get a little messed up over the time that the scouts have them.
• Two scouts will proceed to the launch pad where the Range Officers will place an engine with an igniter in each of the rockets, put them on the launch rod and connect the electrical connections. Each of the two range officers will have one of the launch keys for the controllers. We have two Estes launch controllers and lots of spare batteries.
• The Range Officers will put the keys in the launch controllers and the scouts will count down from 10 and push the launch button on 1.
• There will be only two scouts and the Range Officers on the launch field at any one time. They will launch their rocket and then recover it and proceed off the field back to the gravel road where an adult leader will take the engines out of the rockets and put them in a metal bucket. (We're working on the leave no trace, or as little as possible)

We plan on having two 5 Gallon buckets filled with water near the road if there's a fire issue. I don't suspect that it'll be a problem with as soggy as everything is right now but you never know.

So what am I missing?

Thanks
Joe

Sounds like a good setup!
I'm personally a Life Scout and have helped with a couple of launches similar to this. The drag race idea is a really good way to multiple rockets up at the same time. At the launches I attended, we had around five pads set up at the same time, and they would all launch at the same time. After the scouts have launched their rocket we let them run and get their rockets. After they are far enough down wind, the next group sets up and launches making sure the area is clear before each launch. When we did this we easily got around forty scouts to launch around 2-3 times each over the course of a couple hours. This was of course with boy scouts and not cub scouts so we gave them a little more responsibility about prepping their own rockets.

One thing I would do differently is to exchange the wadding with dog barf. You can get an entire bail that will last for hundreds of launches for a fraction of the cost of recovery wadding.

Either way I think you have everything you'll need.

The fact that you thought all of this out is a sign that you're going to have a great launch. I ran my younger son's rocket launch for a few years, and organization is the key. Getting some help is major too... if you don't have one planned, set out a repair table manned by somebody that knows about the rockets you're going to launch so that when there's an issue you don't have to stop the launch to take care of it. You might want to enlist the aid of a few Boy Scouts in your local troop too... they need some service hours, you need some help.

One small "leave no trace" suggestion: have a container (coffee can or such) near the pads for spent igniters and used plugs.

Also....you can make the batteries last MUCH longer on the Estes controllers if you don't hold the safety key down (and have the continuity lamp lit) for the entire countdown. So if your range officers are handling that aspect - have 'em push the key home at T-3 or 2 seconds instead of from 10 (once you've verified you have good continuity prior to the countdown).

It sounds pretty good, well thought out.
My only suggestion is put just a couple of gallons in each of the 5-gallon buckets. At four gallons, you're well over 30 pounds which would make them tough to carry quickly.

Guys,

Thanks for all the suggestions. I looked at Dog Barf but was concerned that some of the parents might be suspicious about it, some parents seem fine but other parents are a little over protective. The wadding comes with the motor packs and I order a couple of extra packages. it was "Inexpensive" as compared to retail. All added up it was $8.25 per scout for the rocket, wadding and two motors. That doesn't sound bad to me. I just wish that Hobby Lobby had B and C bulk motor packs.

My thought was to have the scout prep the rocket with assistance, I really want them to do the work, with adults just making sure they do anything too crazy. We're going to have a table for the prepping of rockets and we will be able to do repairs with glue and duct tape. We've also got a couple of rockets left over. Fortunately there not much that can go wrong with the rockets, they are so simple.

Great call on the coffee can for igniters and plugs, as well as pushing the key in only at the last minute. On my small controller it's a 9 Volt Battery, on the big one it's 4 AA's. Let's hope they last for 30 launches each. I think the 9 Volt will, I've got over 25 on the existing battery. On the plugs, it's funny because I've found quite a few of the plugs, the color really stands out in the grass.

I've been thinking about the water and might just bring three 1 Gallon jugs with me. With the concrete pad I think there's very little chance of a fire. I also keep an ABC extinguisher in the van as well.

Thanks again for all your help and advice.

I'll let you all know how it goes.
Joe

Nice plan joe. Wadding and starters are the two consumables you'll want to have an extra supply of. Retrieved wadding from the field can be reused ! You don't want to be caught short on starters and mis-fires will happen. Pick up a spare pack or 6 at Hooby Lobby. Launching with kids is my own personal fountain of youth. Have fun and take (and post here) pictures !

joekipp said:

I've been thinking about the water and might just bring three 1 Gallon jugs with me. With the concrete pad I think there's very little chance of a fire. I also keep an ABC extinguisher in the van as well.

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You've got this pretty well set up.

One other reason for the worry about fire is if a rocket impacts before ejection, then the ejection charge goes off on the field. There is a chance of fire to worry about. Running out to the impact area with 5 gallon bucket of water will be tough. If you have a fire extinguisher in your van, I'd keep it out there with you. If you need it, you'll want it right away.

Might want to see if you can fashion a spare safety key, just in case.

Have fun, the Scouts will have a blast.

joekipp said:

Great call on the coffee can for igniters and plugs, as well as pushing the key in only at the last minute. On my small controller it's a 9 Volt Battery, on the big one it's 4 AA's. Let's hope they last for 30 launches each. I think the 9 Volt will, I've got over 25 on the existing battery.

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Yeah that little one uses an LED rather than an incandescent lamp for continuity indication....MUCH less current draw. A fresh Duracell or Energizer on the day of in that controller should be fine. Same with the other one - don't cheap out on batteries. Good luck!

joekipp said:

Guys,

Thanks for all the suggestions. I looked at Dog Barf but was concerned that some of the parents might be suspicious about it, some parents seem fine but other parents are a little over protective. The wadding comes with the motor packs and I order a couple of extra packages. it was "Inexpensive" as compared to retail. All added up it was $8.25 per scout for the rocket, wadding and two motors. That doesn't sound bad to me. I just wish that Hobby Lobby had B and C bulk motor packs.

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You might want to rethink the dog barf - remember that we are not talking about the fiberglass stuff here. Not only is it cheap and effective, it is quite safe and is more biodegradable than the paper wadding. The stuff is just shredded cellulose (mostly newsprint, I think) treated with flame retardants. Our club keeps a bale by the door of our range shack - that bale has been there for the ten years I've been flying with them and it still hasn't been used up!

As far as batteries are concerned - bring a couple extra packs of each. If the batteries do start to run down in one launcher, having a fresh set on hand will keep the fun going.

You also might want to bring a pair of binoculars or two. Those small rockets can go up a pretty good way on a C motor and if you can track where they go, you'll have a much better chance of returning them.

The only other thing I can think of that you haven't mentioned is a good first aid kit. These guys can get pretty excited at a rocket launch and accidents can happen. I'm not so much worried about burns (if you follow the safety rules there isn't much chance for that) as I am cuts and scrapes while they chase after their rockets. And, for that reason, you'll want to restrain them from chasing after and trying to catch the rocket on its way down. That is really tempting for kids that age, but when young eyes are focused up on the rocket, they aren't looking for trip hazards. So a no running rule is definitely the order of the day!

A couple of years ago my son's scout Pack did a rocket launch at a school field which was WAY too small for the rockets they were launching. The leaders knew I was into rocketry and asked me for my opinions and I suggested that they find a bigger field, but they said no that they'd risk it and did it their way anyway.

Then I saw the set up they had when I arrived, with the launch rods in one corner of the rectangular field, angled towards the field, thinking that this would work better. I suggested that they move the rods to the center and launch them straight up, but they disagreed and did it their way anyway.

The rods were near home plate of the baseball diamond in the corner of the field and they had the kids lined up to launch the rockets on the other side of the backstop fence, while about 5 or 6 people were milling around home plate, and the parents were sitting in chairs down the first base line, all way too close. I suggested to the scout leaders that people were too close but they thought it wouldn't be as fun if we told everyone to sit too far away and did it their way anyway.

Seriously, about half of the rockets were lost to trees and the roof of the school and kids were UPSET! Several rockets CATO'd on the pad and a few blew up just a few feet off the rod. Luckily nobody was hurt but they easily could have been.

I also posted a picture here of a dad that thought he was Ansel Adams or something, and was taking pictures of every rocket launch from about 2 feet away.

We're no longer in scouts. But not just because of that, it's only 1 of several reasons.

Others have made many great suggestions. I would have one of the buckets of water out at the launch pad, just in case something goes wrong there. At the club launches I go to, the organizers have spray buckets with wands for small fires. You often see them for pesticides in the big box stores, but a clean one is about the right amount of water to carry and the spray nozzle makes spot firefighting easy.

Thanks for the great suggestions everyone. I've launched the rockets that I've build around 50 or so times, changing the different engines, making sure that the recovery systems deploy without melting, (Recover wadding and soon dog barf are our friends). Just curious, how often do motors CATO? I would expect that standard Estes motors don't CATO very often.
Thanks
Joe

joekipp said:

Thanks for the great suggestions everyone. I've launched the rockets that I've build around 50 or so times, changing the different engines, making sure that the recovery systems deploy without melting, (Recover wadding and soon dog barf are our friends). Just curious, how often do motors CATO? I would expect that standard Estes motors don't CATO very often.
Thanks
Joe

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Cato's are pretty rare, usually attributable to nozzle defects or motors subject to extreme temperature fluctuations during prolonged storage. Observing the proper pad distances and having the fire suppression plan you already described will take care of any mishap.

Sounds like a pretty good, well thought out launch procedure, but I would like to ask why you are not letting the scouts load their own motors/ignitors? I've never had an issue with letting them do this. Especially at the Bear/Webelos level.

I will generally go through a "prepping your rocket" demonstration with the scouts showing them the steps on one of my rockets and let them handle prepping their own. I'll then do a final safety check (or have another experienced rocketeer / adult leader do the check) before moving out to the launch pads.

Also 1 (or more) ABC fire extinguishers would be more portable (and easier to deploy against a small fire) than large buckets of water.

Standard Estes motors don't CATO very often. (Unless it's an E9 - those seem to be a bit more notorious.)

Hi Joe,
I have lead launches with the Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts for the past 6 years. Looks like you have a great plan!

From my experience I would consider 2 things-

The group build can be very stressful. I find I need more help during this than the actual launch day! Get extra help and if possible have the leader build a rocket before hand. If the leaders know the plan or in this case what piece gets glued where, things will go smoother! Also, be prepared for the one (hopefully only one) scout that makes up his own directions. An extra couple of kits for spare parts are handy.

For launch day, pickup some el cheapo stakes and caution tape. I think I got a roll of fluorescent orange tape at Home Depot for $5 or $6. I setup a large diameter around the launch and have clear pathways to the pad and tape around any wires. This will prevent most scouts from running thru the launch area. I have also found it helps to put some tape around the reload table. Scouts will be very excited and will swarm the leaders at the table. Lastly do not forget to bring your folding tables!

Good Luck!
Bryan Lovely
Unit Commissioner, Annawon Council

Not sure if it's been covered, but with 60 launches going, have some baby wipes and 3M pads to clean the rods off every now and again. You can also goto home depot and get one piece steel rods if the estes 2 piece ones are hanging up launch lugs on the connection point.

Having the main group directly upwind isn't ideal. Rockets tend to head into the wind, and if one landsharks it'd go right into the group. Downwind, they drop on them of course.... So to the side would be best if possible.

bryanlovely said:

The group build can be very stressful. I find I need more help during this than the actual launch day! Get extra help and if possible have the leader build a rocket before hand. If the leaders know the plan or in this case what piece gets glued where, things will go smoother! Also, be prepared for the one (hopefully only one) scout that makes up his own directions. An extra couple of kits for spare parts are handy.

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Yes yes yes yes yes.

I helped my scout troop through building their kits last time we did this and it took at least three meetings because no matter how hard I tried, they would not read the directions! Id have at least five people asking for help at the same time asking a question as simple as "what do I do next?" When the instructions where right in front of them. Having some other people who know what they are doing would be a great idea.

One thing that I did was once a scout finished his rocket I'd send him to another scout who needed help to assist him on making his.

RAHagen said:

Yes yes yes yes yes.

I helped my scout troop through building their kits last time we did this and it took at least three meetings because no matter how hard I tried, they would not read the directions! Id have at least five people asking for help at the same time asking a question as simple as "what do I do next?" When the instructions where right in front of them. Having some other people who know what they are doing would be a great idea.

One thing that I did was once a scout finished his rocket I'd send him to another scout who needed help to assist him on making his.

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The building of the rockets has gone very well for us. It took the bears took a little over one hour to build the rockets, the bears took about two hours. They will be decorating the rockets at home with markers. We're going to be launching next Monday evening Weather permitting. While NAR says we can launch in winds up to 20 MPH, I'm saying under 10 MPH.

So far everything has gone really smooth. The kids are looking forward to it!
Thanks
Joe

DizWolf said:

Not sure if it's been covered, but with 60 launches going, have some baby wipes and 3M pads to clean the rods off every now and again. You can also goto home depot and get one piece steel rods if the estes 2 piece ones are hanging up launch lugs on the connection point.

Having the main group directly upwind isn't ideal. Rockets tend to head into the wind, and if one landsharks it'd go right into the group. Downwind, they drop on them of course.... So to the side would be best if possible.

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Thanks for the hint on the launch rods. I had not thought about it. I'll pick up some cleaner pads. It's funny you mention the Estes launch rods the two 1/8" rods that we're using are very straight. The 3/16" rod has quite a notch in it at the connecting point.

We launched the rockets this week. I'll have pictures soon. We ended up with 29 scouts each launching twice, once with an A motor and once with a B motor. We had three launch pads and controllers. The weather was sunny with the wind out of the west, south west at 5 - 7 MPH. We moved the pad and the tables slightly up wind from the concrete pads and launch from a "Green" spot in the field. With the weekend and mornings previous rain, the grass and ground were pretty wet. When the scouts showed up, they received a number with a letter. So we would call the number 1's, A, B and C to launch, then 2's, then 3's, etc. Three adults manned the rocket prep table, a fourth had a bucket for the spent engines and helped pull them out. There were two of us at the launch pad. The adult helping me at the pad would put the motors with igniters in the rockets, the kids would put them on the rods and I would hook up the leads. Then we would put the keys in the controllers and do the count down. Everyone counted down on every launch. It was fantastic to see the excitement. It went very well and fast. We completed all of the launching in about 70 minutes. With plenty of light to spare.

What was most interesting about the rockets were the directions that they would go in and the excitement of the scouts. For the scouts this was one of the better events that we had. I really think launching multiples at a time increased the excitement. As several scouts put it "This was the best pack event ever!". The direction of the rockets was very interesting to me. They were all over the place, most weather cocked, some would tilt left and some right and a few flew up going down range, not weather cocking at all. We lost 4 rockets the entire night, one to a tree, three or four hundred feet away that wasn't up or down wind but directly to the side. The other rockets were lost in the field. I think the quail in the field took them. It's amazing with that many people that were watching the rockets come down that we could find them.

I want to thank your all of the advice. It was a great time was had by all and our den leaders want to do it soon again. This time I'll we'll build some Skill 1 rockets!

Thanks
Joe