rockets and airport explosives scanners

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djs

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Just wondering if anyone had any thoughts on this. I have to travel now and then for work, and sometimes get selected for 'extra scanning' where they swab your clothes and your carryon and put it in some kind of detector for explosives. I'm not sure what they're actually scanning for, and wonder if I had engine or ejection charge residue on my person if it would set off those scanners.

Now in the US, I'm sure I could explain to the TSA that I launch rockets and probably stay mostly out of trouble. However most of my travel is outside the US and I don't know how other countries would react (I was stopped for "extra scanning" in London a few weeks ago- fortunately I passed). Any thoughts? For now, I just opt not to do any rocket launching for a good week before I travel, but that kinda sucks :)
 
I had an incident a number of years ago.

Went to a local launch with a load of rockets on top of a sleeping bag I kept in the back of my truck (it has a cap). Good launch and I flew a lot. The next day I had to drive a couple hours to catch a flight for work. I threw my bags in the back of the truck on that sleeping bag for the trip to the airport. Flying back home going through check-in, my laptop bag set off some type of alarm. Didn't seem like a normal alarm as agents came from several locations asking "Who's station???" and "Where???". I was pulled aside and my bag taken apart. They kept wiping it with white discs, putting them in a type of sensor/reader. At one point, one of the agents even had my NAR membership renewal letter out from my bag. I figured it was due to residue from the rockets. After a few minutes, all checked out and I was allowed to continue. The only thing the agents would tell me was that they were checking for "chemicals".

I just try to be a little more careful now and I've been on several trips since then without any issues.
 
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I sometimes use my camera case to carry pistols and ammo to the range. Every time I go thru an airport, security pulls my camera case to the side and swipe the inside and outside with those white swipes. They never ask me any questions, and I don't think it never took more than 5 minutes. I sure there is a sensor that detects chemicals that can go bang.
 
Those white discs that they put in a special holder to swab stuff with at airports are what we at the Hanford site refer to as a " dog on a stick ". They give more false alarms than a trained bomb dog.
 
Im pretty sure you would have nothing to worry about unless your dusting your belongings with said "chemicals". just my two cents coming from someone who works on certain airport equipment.
 
My experience with the scanners:

I launch one day, and the next day i have a flight to Logan, when I get to security, they start swabbing me down. After about 3 minutes they ask me "what have you done in the past 24 hours that might have got chemicals on your hands?" I replied (kinda proud) "I build rockets!" the look on the TSA agents face was one of shock, I didin't know if i was going to go to gitmo or not.

-they let me by
 
I swabbed positive for Explosives once on my way back to duty from leave in 2004. Fireworks had just been legalized in my state, and I had a party the night before launching lots of them. I smelled of Booze and was likely covered in residue from all manner of Bottle Rockets, Mortars and Ground Displays.
As long as you are honest with the folks that question you they won't detain you.
 
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I've not had any problems as to personal testing, and eventually got thru any issues involving models or things in luggage.

BTW - I always try to take one or two copies of Sport Rocketry magazine with me. Especially when going on trips to the World Space Modeling Championships (WSMC) overseas. So if there is an issue about the rocket models in the luggage, it will help to show that they are "hobby models".

I know you are mainly talking about just flying on non-rocket trips, where you have no models involved. I do not know of any cases where anyone in the hobby has had a problem and was prevented from flying. I've certainly had at least a couple of times in recent years when I flew rockets within 48 hours of leaving.

My 1987 wooden model box, which has been used for dozens of plane trips almost always has models stored in it in between trips that has burned out BP and Composite engines in it, with rocket gliders that had engine exhaust residue all over them, has sometimes been opened up to check the contents (I always try to hang around when I drop it off to see it it makes it through or if they open it up. I want to be there when they open it, to make sure they do not break anything coming out or cram it back in the wrong way after taking things out)

But as far as I could tell, it's been opened up because of how strange the contents looked in X-ray, like the electronics for the R/C gear. They have sometimes have wiped it with the cloth swab and run it thru the scanner, never a problem.

The only time I ever had a problem with my luggage, I was called to the ticket counter and was told there were banned items that had been confiscated from my luggage. Oh…..crap….

But it wasn't that bad. A box of matches, CA De-Bonder, and CA Accelerator. Wow, so the rocket box made it thru but my suitcase had been opened (had a range box full of things that must look weird in X-ray). The matches….. my roommate had left a zipper bag of items, so I was bringing it back to mail to him, I didn't know there were matches in it. The CA De-bonder, yeah, that's Acetone. The CA Accelerator…… tI was surprised to see the bottle said the contents were flammable. Years before they had briefly changed to a nasty chemical that attacked plastic and I'm sure THAT would have been flammable. But they changed the formula to something a lot more benign and I didn't expect it would be (I have wondered if the flammable label was a legacy out of date label, I've never tried to light that accelerator on fire to prove one way or another).

Anyway, those three banned items weren't a big deal. They handed them to me and told me to dispose of them…. but not inside of the terminal. They did not exactly wink and nod, but, they simply stressed not INSIDE of the terminal. So I took the implied hint, went 20 feet outside and dumped them into an outdoor trash can. Problem solved, trip went fine from there.

BTW, the only problem I know of when taking rockets happened to someone who competed in a US Team trials, and I was at the security line with him when it happened. He had his rockets in a cardboard box that he carried onboard for the trip coming in. That was a sure thing to get swabbed. And it failed the test… or….passed if you look at it as testing positive for…. something. One of the models he flew was a Scale Altitude 2-stage model. Second stage with a composite B7 motor, a "staging fuse" thru the length of the 14-16" long first stage using Thermalite and perhaps a special pyrogen at the top to help make the B7 light, and first stage of a Black Power motor. Something about the leftover residues of that combination, the tester didn't like. And oh yeah, he still had the burned out engine casings in the model too, providing a strong source which helped contaminate the insides of the box a lot more before swabbing.

He could fly, but the box could not. He could not have it as checked luggage, since it had tested positive (If he had checked it to begin with, it probably would NOT have been tested). He had to leave the airport, go to the Post Office to mail the Box, and missed his flight. This was late October 2001.

The most recent hassle I know of was during last year's WSMC trip, changing planes in Germany, one of the team members had an R/C (model plane type) Transmitter in a carry-on which took a ridiculous amount of time for that particular security agent to allow through. Finally a supervisor had to get in involved to wave him thru. Meanwhile I was standing there next to him, with an R/C transmitter in my carry-on, but I was in a different line that he had been and the security people understood easily what it was, he got bad luck of the draw. Unfortunately I had forgotten to pack a copy of Sport Rocketry mag with a previous WSMC article in it, which might have helped speed things along (His picture would have been in the issue I intended to bring)

- George Gassaway
 
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Whenever I'm flying with things that might look odd on the X-ray, I like to open up my bag and show the agent just before it goes into the X-ray. They always give me a "why are you wasting my time" look and I go straight through with no trouble. I've been swabbed a day after launching and no trouble. Some of my clients were at a mining explosives training class for a week and got the swab on the way home. They all wondered if they were going to end up in Gitmo, but didn't even get pulled for questions. I guess the message is to empty out expended motors and take a good shower before flying.
 
I swabbed positive for Explosives once on my way back to duty from leave in 2004. Fireworks had just been legalized in my state, and I had a party the night before launching lots of them. I smelled of Booze and was likely covered in residue from all manner of Bottle Rockets, Mortars and Ground Displays.
As long as you are honest with the folks that question you they wont detain you.

Add this to the long list of reasons never to launch a bottle rocket out of your butt. The swabbing can get very personal.
 
I flew away and back home each week for a few months and never had any problem even though I was using a gym bag as a carry on that I've used to carry stuff at rocket launches. I even went through that machine that puffs you with air the Mondays after I attended launches. 'Course I can't trust a machine that says "Smiths Detection" on its side, but let me through each time.

-- Roger
 
They are probably swabbing for nitrates. It's a standard chemical test.
 
They are probably swabbing for nitrates. It's a standard chemical test.

.....and organic nitro compounds. There are several types of instruments used to detect nitro-compounds. The materials are collected on filter paper swab, put into a detection instrument, and hot air is forced through the filter to evaporate and remove the materials collected on the paper.

In one system, the material are photolyzed by intense UV light, or reacted with ozone, and if nitrates or nitro compounds are present, the reaction products emit a characteristic signature that is detected and reported. Another system is employs an atmospheric pressure mass spectrometer configured to detect nitro containing molecules of a certain molecular weight range.

The rapid screening analysis is not perfect and there are often false positives and one must assume missed detections. It is deemed better than nothing. Maybe.

Bob
 
I got a new kind of wanding at security yesterday where they only swabbed my hands (as opposed to my bag, etc). The last time I touched rocket engines was when I was cleaning my AT 29/40-120 case on Wednesday. Didn't show up positive, so they must be going for the very stupid terrorists that don't wash their hands?
 
Without a doubt much of the currency in circulation these days has at some point come into contact with some form or another of a controlled substance, Cocaine, Meth, Crack you name it; your typical $20, $50 or $100 bill most likely has traceable/detectable amounts of residue on them.

If they ever set up detectors at airports for these types of substance; chaos would ensue.

Now as for rocketry; on my way home from Argonia after two days of launching I was pulled over by a County Mountie for having a burned out tail light.
When he stepped up to my open driver’s side window to ask for my license and insurance form he obviously got a whiff of “Odue de Burt Propellants”.
He asked if I had any firearms in my car and I explained about my rockets and showed him same. No biggie; just a Fix-It-Ticket for the taillight and I was on my way.
 
Hey Thirst , almost sounds like a voice of experience ???? lol ! lets keep bottle rockets in the bottle !
 
Hey Thirst , almost sounds like a voice of experience ???? lol ! lets keep bottle rockets in the bottle !

Ha ha! No! Something I saw on YouTube. I never tried that particular stupid trick, but I did do a lot of dumb things with fireworks as a kid. I can't tell you how many times I found myself in a confined space with a bottle rocket or even a full-sized skyrocket firework flying around in there with me. You would think that's the kind of thing that would happen only once, but no. Each time, I'd think, "Oh, no! Not AGAIN!"
 
I just returned from Thunder Down Under rocket launch in Ozz. My Carry on contained a 3in Av-bay that has been used many times, complete with batteries and 2 altimeters...all hooked up. My Com-Spec trackers & receiver's also in there.
I knew I would need explanation when run through TSA, and had manual's ready.

Upon entry into OZZ and back into USA I was pulled, questioned and released immediately....then moved to the "sniffer" tables. No swabs or patches, both had the new vacuum sniffers. Samples taken and put into spectrum analyzers. Took 10 seconds to be '-' or '+'.
I explained about BP residue may be on BP's of Bay....no concerns about "burnt explosive" residue's. They are programmed to find un-burnt chemical combo's that may be dangerous....was the reply on both continents.
 
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