Japan's WW2 Musashi battleship wreck found

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Winston

Winston

Lorenzo von Matterhorn
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Should eventually make a nice "Titanic" style exploration documentary on TV.

About the discovery:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-31724995

About the battleship:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_battleship_Musashi

Musashi was the second ship of the Yamato class of Imperial Japanese Navy World War II battleships. She and her sister ship, Yamato, were the heaviest and most powerfully armed battleships ever constructed, displacing 72,800 tonnes at full load and armed with nine 46 cm (18.1 inch) 46 Centimeter Type 94 main guns. Neither ship survived the war.

Musashi was sunk by an estimated 19 torpedo and 17 bomb hits from American carrier aircraft on 24 October 1944 during the Battle of Leyte Gulf. Over half of her crew was rescued.

Photos and CGI of Yamato since photos of Musahsi aren't the same quality:

Yamato_during_Trial_Service.jpg


MUSASHI1943-11.jpg
 
Cool, now we have 2 possible wrecks to call upon, should the Gamelons start throwing their planet bombs.
 
First my apologies to the OP,
I don't mean to hijack, but the subject of Starbazers doesn't come up very often.
As a mater of fact, I usually have a hard time finding someone who even remembers the show.

I own all three seasons of Starblazers on DVD. One of my all-time favorite animated series.
They did a live action movie in 2010 that is not bad (if you don't mind sub-titles) called Spacebattleship Yamato.
(and yes the "launch" scene is impressive)
I've been a fan of the show since about '81-'82
 
Daddyisabar said:
Can you make it fly like a rocket?
Click to expand...
I know you'd be the one to try. :)

The Japanese model version would be a bit too expensive IMHO to use as a basis to start with:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tamiya-78031-Japanese-Battleship-MUSASHI-1-350-scale-kit-/331488753717

Whew, $58.50 with $23.80 shipping (from Japan), and that's the cheapest one on eBay.

You'd be better off with the Bismark:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Lindberg-Models-1-350-Bismark-Battleship-70825-NIB-/390951253557
 
Winston said:
I know you'd be the one to try. :)

The Japanese model version would be a bit too expensive IMHO to use as a basis to start with:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tamiya-78031-Japanese-Battleship-MUSASHI-1-350-scale-kit-/331488753717

Whew, $58.50 with $23.80 shipping (from Japan), and that's the cheapest one on eBay.

You'd be better off with the Bismark:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Lindberg-Models-1-350-Bismark-Battleship-70825-NIB-/390951253557
Click to expand...

Did you see the Space Battleship Yamato model the Japanese guy at NARAM had? I don't think he flew it but it sure looked awesome. The curved spray reducing bow may be a bit of a problem. Didn't get to talk to him much since his wife only knew a bit of English and it was crazy trying to show him my Shinden and B6N.

I have an old Heller PRINZ EUGEN that could work. Mid to high mount canted tri-motors with a Kriegsmarine Ensign fin off the keel, easy peasy and it will take another ten years off the life of our RSO.
 
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I built the Tamiya one years ago with a motor in it for my eldest when he was a lot younger. Ours nearly capsized and sunk itself a few times but we always managed to get it back. Like all Tamiya stuff the moulding were brilliant but it was a very dull model to build.
 
When the live action movie was released, I gave some thought to sponsoring a contest to build a flying Yamato/Argo but didn't think there would be enough interest. If enough people (I don't have an exact number) would enter, I might be convinced to offer some prizes. I have a special fondness for Star Blazers.
 
I guess I'll have to cruise Amazon and find the live action movie. I knew it came out, but I didn't remember to look for it in a DVD with subtitles. I would watch it even with no subtitles. I loved that show when I was young.

Ironically, I don't like anime in general. For years, I didn't even know or think about the fact this was a Japanese show dubbed into English. Just a fun fact, the show was originally conceived before Star Wars lit the"space drama"fire in the public consciousness.

On the original topic: I love battleships, and wish they had come into being before the aircraft era. I want to know what a full scale capital ship engagement would have looked like.
 
10fttall said:
On the original topic: I love battleships, and wish they had come into being before the aircraft era. I want to know what a full scale capital ship engagement would have looked like.
Click to expand...
Battleships did come into being before the aircraft era. They were around in WW1, when there were several capital ship engagements, the biggest being the Battle of Jutland. The Japanese also had prior experience of battleship clashes during the even earlier Russo-Japanese war, specifically the battles of Yellow Sea and Tsushima. (There were two corvettes at that time named Yamato and Musashi.)
 
Daddyisabar said:
Did you see the Space Battleship Yamato model the Japanese guy at NARAM had? I don't think he flew it but it sure looked awesome.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, no.

The curved spray reducing bow may be a bit of a problem.
Click to expand...
Use a very draggy but compensating clear plastic canted forward canard?
 
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Driving into work today and a flying Prinz Eugen mind simmed up nicely. The biggest problem would be getting everything to fit, equalizing the drag on the underside and not burning everything up with the exhaust. Underside drag could be supplemented with some Quisling Narwhals and maybe some keel hauled Von Trapp Family Singers. If that is not PC then maybe some attacking Royal Navy X-Craft on the underside would work. Recovery by rear eject or up front with lanyard on chute, Would nee to come down slow, landing on the bow. Oh the potential damage to all those delicate little bits. Maybe it is time to get motivated on my first PMC. Get out the Dremel! Get out the smelly green putty!

The Spaceship Yamato would be a challenge with the motor at the rear of the rocket. Who puts their motor in the rear of their rockets? Boat loads of nose weight and just a slight bow modification might do the job. It would require three Banzai cheers before launch. You guys are good enough with the sim programs that you could probably whip out an RSO acceptable CP with no problem. . . right?
 
adrian said:
Battleships did come into being before the aircraft era. They were around in WW1, when there were several capital ship engagements, the biggest being the Battle of Jutland. The Japanese also had prior experience of battleship clashes during the even earlier Russo-Japanese war, specifically the battles of Yellow Sea and Tsushima. (There were two corvettes at that time named Yamato and Musashi.)
Click to expand...

I looked at my oddroc launch calendar and on the top it says "Fear God and Dread Naught."
 
Daddyisabar said:
I looked at my oddroc launch calendar and on the top it says "Fear God and Dread Naught."
Click to expand...
WWII experience taught us that the dreadnoughts should have feared aircraft carriers more than they did. Today, aircraft carriers, even when in their carrier groups, should fear mass wave attacks by supersonic sea skimming cruise missiles and modern, extremely quiet diesel-electric subs:

U.S. aircraft carrier and part of its escort “sunk” by French submarine during drills off Florida
Mar 05 2015

https://theaviationist.com/2015/03/05/us-aircraft-carrier-sunk-by-subs/

EDIT: Oops, that French sub was even a nuclear one, potentially more noisy than the much cheaper modern diesel-electric subs.

China sub stalked U.S. fleet
The Washington Times - Monday, November 13, 2006

"A Chinese submarine stalked a U.S. aircraft carrier battle group in the Pacific last month and surfaced within firing range of its torpedoes and missiles before being detected, The Washington Times has learned."

Supersonic sea-skimming cruise missiles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruise_missile#Supersonic

Chinese DF-21 medium-range anti-ship ballistic missile

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DF-21

Diesel-Electric Submarines, the U.S. Navy’s Latest Annoyance

https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/archive/2008/April/Pages/AntiSub2301.aspx

However, these huge, multi-billion dollar floating targets called "aircraft carriers" are still useful against less sophisticated adversaries.
 
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Daddyisabar said:
Driving into work today and a flying Prinz Eugen mind simmed up nicely. The biggest problem would be getting everything to fit, equalizing the drag on the underside and not burning everything up with the exhaust. Underside drag could be supplemented with some Quisling Narwhals and maybe some keel hauled Von Trapp Family Singers. If that is not PC then maybe some attacking Royal Navy X-Craft on the underside would work. Recovery by rear eject or up front with lanyard on chute, Would nee to come down slow, landing on the bow. Oh the potential damage to all those delicate little bits. Maybe it is time to get motivated on my first PMC. Get out the Dremel! Get out the smelly green putty!

The Spaceship Yamato would be a challenge with the motor at the rear of the rocket. Who puts their motor in the rear of their rockets? Boat loads of nose weight and just a slight bow modification might do the job. It would require three Banzai cheers before launch. You guys are good enough with the sim programs that you could probably whip out an RSO acceptable CP with no problem. . . right?
Click to expand...
Take the cheapest plastic battleship kit you can find and if you end up flying anything even remotely as cool as Spaceship Yamato as I'm sure you can, I and I think everyone else will be extremely impressed. First flights at the most distant HPR pad will probably satisfy an RSO as long as the surrounding terrain is not combustible.
 
Winston said:
Take the cheapest plastic battleship kit you can find and if you end up flying anything even remotely as cool as Spaceship Yamato as I'm sure you can, I and I think everyone else will be extremely impressed. First flights at the most distant HPR pad will probably satisfy an RSO as long as the surrounding terrain is not combustible.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, this would have to be at the Tripoli EX launch up at Hartsel. To fly this thing safely might require some questionable techniques. I would have to go through the usual preapproval process and up to nine certified levels of supervision on this one. Just the mere sight of it at a launch would immediately place me on double secret probation. But would it be exciting enough for you to come up with some of your cool stuff I know you have been working on?
 
The reason the Musashi and the Yamato were the largest Battleships was because the Japanese Navy was a one ocean Navy. The USN was/is a two ocean Navy, and therefor needed to design their biggest ships to be able to fit through the Panama Canal. However, with the knowledge of the 2 Japanese super dreadnoughts, the USN set forth to design it answer to the Japanese. The new class was called the Montana Class.:cool: They would have been better, but the USN realized that the BBs were obsolete, and the 5 Montana class ships were canceled before any keel was laid. :mad:
 
yes...the Yamato and Mushashi were built to nearly 70,000 tons per ship when the rest of the nations were trying to follow the Washington treaty, and build battleships to 35,000 tons. The US Iowa class 16 in gun was a superb weapon, nearly the equal of the Japanese 18 in gun. The Montana would have carried 12 of them. Just as important, the US fast battleships carried a fire control system that was orders of magnitude better than the Japanese fleet.



TALON said:
The reason the Musashi and the Yamato were the largest Battleships was because the Japanese Navy was a one ocean Navy. The USN was/is a two ocean Navy, and therefor needed to design their biggest ships to be able to fit through the Panama Canal. However, with the knowledge of the 2 Japanese super dreadnoughts, the USN set forth to design it answer to the Japanese. The new class was called the Montana Class.:cool: They would have been better, but the USN realized that the BBs were obsolete, and the 5 Montana class ships were canceled before any keel was laid. :mad:
Click to expand...
 
some Quisling Narwhals or some keel hauled Von Trapp Family Singers?? HA!!! That is funny! Daddy, if anyone can pull off a flying Prince Eugen, it would be you! The question is would the Hauptman Kitty fly it??

Daddyisabar said:
Driving into work today and a flying Prinz Eugen mind simmed up nicely. The biggest problem would be getting everything to fit, equalizing the drag on the underside and not burning everything up with the exhaust. Underside drag could be supplemented with some Quisling Narwhals and maybe some keel hauled Von Trapp Family Singers. If that is not PC then maybe some attacking Royal Navy X-Craft on the underside would work. Recovery by rear eject or up front with lanyard on chute, Would nee to come down slow, landing on the bow. Oh the potential damage to all those delicate little bits. Maybe it is time to get motivated on my first PMC. Get out the Dremel! Get out the smelly green putty!

The Spaceship Yamato would be a challenge with the motor at the rear of the rocket. Who puts their motor in the rear of their rockets? Boat loads of nose weight and just a slight bow modification might do the job. It would require three Banzai cheers before launch. You guys are good enough with the sim programs that you could probably whip out an RSO acceptable CP with no problem. . . right?
Click to expand...
 
NJRick said:
yes...the Yamato and Mushashi were built to nearly 70,000 tons per ship when the rest of the nations were trying to follow the Washington treaty, and build battleships to 35,000 tons. The US Iowa class 16 in gun was a superb weapon, nearly the equal of the Japanese 18 in gun. The Montana would have carried 12 of them. Just as important, the US fast battleships carried a fire control system that was orders of magnitude better than the Japanese fleet.
Click to expand...

The analog computer for the fire control was huge! I can't remember exactly how large it was, but it required it's own compartment :eyepop: I believe it was the computer that coined the phrase "bug" as in the computer has a bug, because a moth short circuited.
 
NJRick said:
some Quisling Narwhals or some keel hauled Von Trapp Family Singers?? HA!!! That is funny! Daddy, if anyone can pull off a flying Prince Eugen, it would be you! The question is would the Hauptman Kitty fly it??
Click to expand...

Just a simple OKW mandate and the Hauptmann will be behind the wheel. You know how those national socialist political types loved to interfere with naval operations on the bridge. "I will not sit here and have my ... shot off!" Go Navy!

I just never got that movie. You have the chance to captain a brand new heavy cruiser named after a great Austrian hero and all you can do is hide in the graveyard. That is my favorite part of the movie. Come on Rolfe, blow that dern whistle!

The Space Battleship Yamato, representing the rebirth of Japanese militarism, so much wanted by Regan Administration and everyone in the defense community, is much more PC today. We need Japan to spend more on defense given the rise of the Pacific rim. Whereas a flying Prinz Eugen is a best a bit dodgy. But the Prinz Eugen was a lucky ship, so hopefully some of that luck will still be there. If a few bits fall off I can always apply some fluorescent green paint and tell the folks I am flying her in her current condition.
 
NJRick said:
yes...the Yamato and Mushashi were built to nearly 70,000 tons per ship when the rest of the nations were trying to follow the Washington treaty, and build battleships to 35,000 tons. The US Iowa class 16 in gun was a superb weapon, nearly the equal of the Japanese 18 in gun. The Montana would have carried 12 of them. Just as important, the US fast battleships carried a fire control system that was orders of magnitude better than the Japanese fleet.
Click to expand...

Like the guy in the old car commercial: NANJISKA! HONJISKA! The superiority of the Japanese fighting man and the Navy's ability to fight at night will overcome any wussy British technology like radar!
 

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