K'Tesh's OpenRocket Files...

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K'Tesh,

Amazing job on these rockets!

Oddly enough, I was recently downloading some rkt files from the Rocket Reviews website of some of the rockets that I own and the fin sizes were all over the map with most being quit a bit larger than the actual fins. At first I thought it was some error in the conversion of the rkt file to the ork file but noticed that in most cases the body tube diameter and other dimensions seemed correct. I just came to your thread today and found that you discovered the same thing with the discrapancies so it is nice to see that you are doing the files as accurately as possible.

I have a few questions for you -
1) On my finished view, I sometimes get jagged edges on the fins. How do you get such good resolution on your OpenRocket displays?

2) Are the decals usable or just for display on OpenRocket?

Best regards,
Brian
 
K'Tesh,

Amazing job on these rockets!

Oddly enough, I was recently downloading some rkt files from the Rocket Reviews website of some of the rockets that I own and the fin sizes were all over the map with most being quit a bit larger than the actual fins. At first I thought it was some error in the conversion of the rkt file to the ork file but noticed that in most cases the body tube diameter and other dimensions seemed correct. I just came to your thread today and found that you discovered the same thing with the discrapancies so it is nice to see that you are doing the files as accurately as possible.

I have a few questions for you -
1) On my finished view, I sometimes get jagged edges on the fins. How do you get such good resolution on your OpenRocket displays?

2) Are the decals usable or just for display on OpenRocket?

Best regards,
Brian

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the complement.

I'm presuming the problem is with curved fin designs (like the Sprint, or maybe the Binder Design Dragonfly)... When I sim curved fin shapes, I import my fins from an image so I have many more data points than most people.

If that doesn't solve your problem, it would help to know more about the rockets you have problems with the fins with... Perhaps you could create a new thread and post your .ork files there (along with screen shots) to allow us to do some diagnostic work on.

I'd say that the decals in my sims are just for display. Typically I'm scaling them for 1pixel = 1/100inch which is ok for the computer, but on upscales, I don't have to stick with that ratio, so the images might come out a tad grainy. Ideally, I'd prefer them to be 1 to 1000 or more. Additionally, I usually I have to manually clean the edges which can make them a little jagged, or have issue with color shifts. Additionally, the image files are for the entire component, paint and all. So, you might have some tiny 1/16" band of color on a 15" rocket, and you end up with a 1500 pixel tall image just for something that would be only 6 pixels tall on it.
 
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Thank you for the fast reply.

I looked closer on the finish view. It is more of getting a jagged line instead of getting a nice smooth straight line on the fins, transitions and the nose cone. I wasn't sure if OpenRocket had a high resolution mode since in general, the ones that you displayed in this thread seem to be crisper looking.

Best regards,
Brian
 
Also depends on your 3D acceleration settings on your computer - specifically if anti-aliasing is on.

Open Rocket uses OpenGL for the 3D part, so you could check those settings for a higher quality output.
 
On the subject of jagged fin appearance in OR's 3D rendering, I suspect it may have something to do with the version of OR that is running, and also perhaps the scaling of the image.

This image, that I added to the thread in March of 2015, apparently has the jagged appearance that BRS was talking about... It's a reduced scale image from flickr.




This next image is much newer, and I kept it at the original image's scaling (from flickr).



I haven't done anything special (like tweaking settings in OR) to accomplish this. However, I did buy a newer computer before coming to China, and that might also have something to do with it. My version of OR is currently 15.03.

BTW... I noticed something on the "Stock" version of the Velociraptor. I have the silver band at 4", but in looking at the prototype, it's appears to be 5" (or more), and the black bands might also not be like the 1" wide ones that I show. However, Mike's been busy with a contract, so he hasn't had a chance to look that up for me. Since there really is no painting guide for the kit specifying band widths, the stock appearance is subject to the individual's interpretation. Oh, and my "decals" for the file are all scratch drawn images, based on photos of the prototype, that I used MS Paint to create, with the exceptions of the Binder Design logo, and the VELOCIRAPTOR name. Also, The "VELOCIRAPTOR" decal splits between the O" and the "C" on the actual prototype seen at Tammie's Hobbies in Beaverton, and not between the "C" and the "I" like I have here. I do plan to post an image of the Prototype VRaptor when I'm confident of the markings.
 
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K'Tesh,

First off, thanks a ton for saving me trouble!!! OR files with decals? Really?

SOOOO stinkin' cool... but (here it comes), how do you get them on there within open rocket? Know of any tutorials?

Thanks in advance!!

fm

(i ask bc he's a master!)
 
Thanks fm!




Here's the file that fm has modified. No decals for it, and no tricks to fake them. John was even detailed enough to add weights to the various parts.

Enjoy!
 

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Thanks fm!




Here's the file that fm has modified. No decals for it, and no tricks to fake them. John was even detailed enough to add weights to the various parts.

Enjoy!

Yeah it got pretty detailed...

I'm starting to capture all of the kids builds as well as my own so I can figure just how accurate these sims are... good thing I get to test them all too!!!

I'm slowly learning the decals thing, will post when I get it!

fm
 
Did someone say Cherokee-D? One of my favorite models, and it was in part thanks to Jim that as I was considering potential L3 builds that he did a PSII version.1678940430872.png1678940459786.png

Always glad to know I'm doing my part in enabling others... Nice Job on your Cherk, and Congrats on the L3!
 
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Yeah it got pretty detailed...

I'm starting to capture all of the kids builds as well as my own so I can figure just how accurate these sims are... good thing I get to test them all too!!!

I'm slowly learning the decals thing, will post when I get it!

fm

I was pretty surprised at how complicated this simple little rocket was... That locking fin unit took quite a bit of head scratching before I cracked it.
 
Here we go with "drop-in" Binder Design 4" AV/Dual Deploy Bays.

Binder Design 4 inch Dual Deploy Kit (for short rockets).jpg

Binder Design 4 inch Dual Deploy Kit (for long rockets).jpg

Creating an accurately shaped Eye bolt is beyond OR's abilities to sim for internal parts... But... Then again... I AM AN OPENROCKET NINJA!!! (I can sneak up on it)

Binder Design 4 inch Avionics Bay.png
 

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The drop in bays got me working on the Velociraptor again... Of course that led me to working on the prototype of the Velociraptor...












This is as accurate as I can possibly make it. I can't tell you how hard it was figuring out how to get the baffle worked out so that "light" would shine in it, instead of it being cut off by the centering ring (and that is a trick I'm holding onto for the moment). The wing nuts and eye bolts were a cakewalk compared to that.

Besides removing the CG/CP marks, the "too many parallel fins" caution, and the seam line from the body tube/boat tail joint (which showed up for some odd reason, despite the decals being "clamped"), this is pure openrocket. Basically, what you see is what you get (except for the baffle trick).

[EDIT] For some reason, OpenRocket is overriding some of my settings on things like the diameter of the hole in the centering ring for the baffle. Despite my attempts at changing it (seems like I did it a dozen times), after saving the file, then closing it (and opening it again), and when I check it again, it's undone again). I have yet to figure out why this is happening. So, I had to change the CR to a bulkhead... and I apparently forgot to change that to plywood (or it was overriding me again). I've also modified the All Thread assemblies to include the nuts that would hold the sled in place.... (READ: If you downloaded the file, please toss it and download the corrected version).
 

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OpenRocket can be a bit problematic at times... As I've edited into some of the posts I have on the Velociraptor. OR kept overriding my settings for the forward baffle centering ring, making a large hole appear under the eye bolt (as well as changing components from plywood to cardboard). :mad:

I ultimately changed that to be a bulkhead instead of a centering ring. I've also made further refinements to the AV bay and the Baffle.

If you were one of the people who downloaded one of the earlier versions of the files, I'd suggest tossing them and downloading the latest updated version.
 
Please remember that my files are primarily intended to give an accurate appearance of the rocket, and not necessarily the flight performance. If you want to use them for flight projections, I highly recommend you look for "Phantom" body tubes, and "Air" fins and delete them if possible (However, some are needed for application of fins on transitions). These may have a dramatic effect on the simulated performance of the rocket (exspecially if you delete fins off of transitions).

Spent a good amount of time today working on my sims of the original 4 Estes PSII Builder kits. I learned that a lot of you really liked them, with the most viewed files at over 100 downloads.

After making the changes, I noticed that most apparently went up in their projected flight performance (one by more than double, and one by 1000'), one went down.

The changes were the elimination of the "air fins" and internal tubes used to sim the decals, also some minor changes to reflect my changes in naming conventions.

Here's an example of the old...



And the new...



The Ventris no longer needs a "Phantom" body tube for the LL's. I used internal body tubes that were radially offset to sim the appearance of them. However, internal tubes are not factored into aerodynamic calculations.

You can view the Argent over in post #46, the Leviathan and the Stretch Leviathan in post #40, the Partizon in post #47,and the Ventris can be found in post #41
 
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[EDIT]Some of you might feel that this is Verrrry interestink... (but others might feel it's not very funny)... I've finally managed to get the Citation Series Red Max (MK-2) finished (to the best of my ability).

MAJOR UPDATE (FEB 27,2023): All previous versions and variants of the Red Max are KAPUT!!! With the new version of OpenRocket allowing fins to have separate appearances on the sides of the fins now, the need for PBTS for air fins has been eliminated*. No more needing to delete the PBTs for flight info. However, until OR can accommodate freeform mass objects (such as engine hooks) there is still a need for PBTs to allow for proper positioning. You should delete the old files and download the updated files that are at the bottom of this post.

*The MDRM still has a PBT for the plywood cores of the fins, and this should be deleted for flightworthy data.



The Der Red Max was originally released as a Citation Series kit, and listed as the "Red Max" as seen in the scans on Ninfinger's site. It had a plastic nosecone, which would make it the PNC-60AH injection molded nosecone, and not the slightly longer blow molded version. I modeled the markings on the 1971 catalog. However, as I wasn't able to turn up the Citation's instructions, I used the later 0651's instructions found on JimZ's site for the sim. In the past lots of air fins were needed for this sim (they're all attached to a single PBH so a simple deletion of that will make it suitable for flight sims). However, with OR 22.02, those air fins have been eliminated... Same Great Look... Less to delete. I also managed to get an original Citation Red Max (with box), and someone pointed out that the original color called for the kit was... Orange. So, If you've got an original Citation Red Max, it'll look a little different than the more common (more recent) versions.

The Der Big Red Max (1977) came out later...



Markings are based on the 1980 catalog, plans were found on JimZ's site. Again, originally, it needed lots of air fins, all attached to a single PBH so a simple deletion of that would make it suitable for flight sims. However, I've updated the files for this sim using OR 22.02, and the air fins are gone now. Download the updated sim below. From the photos found online, this kit clearly came in two varieties... One with the two-piece, injection molded nosecone, and the one-piece, blow molded nosecone. I'm still trying to secure a copy of the blow molded version's nosecone.

In 2007, Estes re-released the Der Red Max with the same kit number as in the past, 0651.



This sim's measurements were taken from my personal sample (decals dated 04/15/14). Fins were imported in from my own scan. Markings are based on the facecard. Instructions can be found on Estes' website.


Here's a concept DRM variant... The Der Big Red Max II.



It's an "E" Powered two stage, payload version, of the Der Big Red Max (1977). To build it, you'd need two DRMs (for the decals, one nosecone, a parachute and shock cord, and the booster/payload section body tubes), two "E" sized Motor Mounts, an 18" body tube, a tube coupler, and a Balsa Nosecone Block (w/screw eye).

The Pro Series II is finally finished

Thanks to dhbarr, I have scans of the MDRM's decals with a ruler for scale (see posts below).



In the past, for appearance needs, I had a PBT with air fins to get the decals right. Now, with OR 22.02 those are gone. However, I still have a PBT for the plywood cores of the fins. For flight performance characteristics you should delete that PBT, and adjust your mass override accordingly.

Here's the sim for the Estes Der Big Red Max Pro Series II (9721)



Decal placement is based on the box image. However, I didn't rotate the decals on the fins. Sadly, in the delay between getting the decals scans, and the sim, I've forgotten who sent them. For that I apologize.

[EDIT] If you were one of the first 41 people to download the Der Big Red Max Pro Series II's file, you need to download it again (along with all the other versions of the Red Max sims.[/EDIT]


Today I got the Estes Mini Max (2445) finished.



This sim was made with OR 22.02. Gone are the PBTs needed for the fins... YAY!!! The only "trick" is the PBT needed for the engine hook. Delete it for accurate flight info. Model measurements based on my personal sample. Markings are based on the face card... Though I didn't crop the top of the "M" in the "Mini". Also, my "flames" will appear in line with the motor, and not offset as the facecard shows (look it up...). Files are available on JimZ's site.


Thanks to LW Bercini, and dhbarr for their help on these sims.

If you like these, or any other sims, please feel free to drop them a "Like". Other questions or feedback should be posted in the *NEW* feedback thread.

Estes Der Big Red Max (1977).ork viewed 202 times. Estes Citation Series Red Max (MK-2).ork viewed 166 times. Estes Der Red Max (0651)(2007 re-release).ork viewed 171 times. Estes Der Big Red Max II (1977)(2 Stage, Payload Mod).ork viewed 95 times. Estes Citation Series Red Max (MK-2)(Orange).ork viewed 22 times. Estes Mega Der Red Max (09705).ork viewed 64 times. Estes Der Big Red Max Pro Series II (9721).ork viewed 41 times.
 

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Well I just happen to have a MDRM upstairs. What DPI / format do you prefer?

600DPI/.png files would be AWESOME!

BTW... your scans are AWESOME!!! I probably will be able to use those... However, I have classes to prepare for today (including one that is today). So, I can't work on it right now.
 
600dpi PNG, will replace existing images soonish.

Ever think about amending the start of this thread with a "how you can help" section; collect up what's useful as well as your most-wanted list? :)
 
Today it's the Estes Mercury Redstone (1921)(Alan Shepard's Freedom 7)



Kit No. 1921 was based on Centuri's KS-1 kit. The Centuri kit had a baffle included, and IMHO a far superior method of teathering the capsule so it wouldn't get damaged on landing. Personally I'm planning on modifying that method for my own builds so that the capsule and body tube will stay together, and the tower will still remain pointing up slightly.

This sim has many cheats in it, such as phantom body tubes for the placement of the End Plates, and Rudders, and air fins for the roll pattern. As such, it doesn't sim very well for altitude. Think of it as a 3D decal guide. I worked extensively with Tonimus to get the capsule dimensions correct. As you can see, the tower assembly lacks the cross bracing that the actual rocket (and kit has). These details are beyond OR's ability to sim at this time.

Launch of Mercury Redstone 3 (Alan Shepard)

383px-Mercury-Redstone_3_Launch_MSFC-6100884.jpg

Photo credit: NASA

Due to the differences in the decals between MR7 (AKA Mercury Redstone 3 or Freedom 7) and MR8 (AKA Mercury Redstone 4 or Liberty Bell 7), I'm uploading MR7 first. The markings on MR7 have been uploaded to JimZ's site, and my sim uses those. A few things to note about this version of the kit. The Estes face card has the markings wrong, and I noticed an error with the decal guide. The face card showed the UNITED STATES markings centered between fins. Photographs of the actual rocket shows that they were centered over the fins. More specifically, they were centered over the white top/black bottom and all black fin, and over the all white and black top/white bottom fin. Photos also show the roll pattern above the "U" has the right edge of black square centered over the "U". If that weren't enough, there appears to be a problem with size or spacing of the letters in the UNITED STATES markings. The actual vehicle's "U" appears to be much closer to the bottom of the roll pattern than the kit leads you to believe. The kit's decals seem to be scrunched down, as if Estes was trying to save money by reducing the length of the decal paper.


Thanks to Bobby Hamill, I now have a sample of Estes' current release of Gus Grissom's Liberty Bell 7/Mercury Redstone 4. Estes previously released kit number 2167 with markings for Gus' rocket. That version featured plastic fins that were mounted TTW to the rocket, and had self adhesive (ugh... ) decals. The new version has a single length of body tube (19.5" long), and uses balsa and card stock for the fins (decals are waterslide). When I get done altering the decals for MR7, I'll upload that version here.

This kit also has problems with the face card and other marking problems. The face card and instructions shows the UNITED STATES marking centered over the black top/white bottom and white top/black bottom fin. In my research, I can see from photos of the actual vehicle that the markings was centered over the white top/black bottom and all black fin. I also noted that the right edge of the black box (in the upper roll pattern) should be aligned with the center of the "U". Finally, the width of the lettering in the UNITED STATES marking appears to be too wide and too short. The top of the "U" appears to be closer than what the decals show, and I suspect the bottom of the lower "S" on the actual vehicle would be closer to the bottom of the rocket.

I wasn't able to do the white decals that go on the capsule (too hard to extract from the image I was using for the decals). This sim went beyond what OR could simulate (at least for me) for flight characteristics. However, it should help with the roll patterns and the decal placements.

Launch of Mercury Redstone 8 (Gus Grissom)
369px-Mercury-Redstone_4_Launch_MSFC-6414824.jpg

Photo credit: NASA

I'll add a shout out to Chris Michielssen for his blog posts on the Mercury Redstone. It was his comments that got me examining the markings closer.

Special Thanks to Tonimus for his help with the measurements of the capsule.

Last (but certainly not least) a VERY SPECIAL THANK YOU!!! goes out to Bobby Hamill for the kit I used to sample for this.

Thanks Guys!
 

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Today it's the Estes Pro Series II Sahara (9713)



What you see is what you get... I only edited out the CG/CP markings.

[EDIT] Just as I was closing the .pdf file for the Sahara's instructions (which are now available on Estes website), I spotted something that I missed when I first created this .ork file, back when the rocket first came out. One of the fins is black. I'd never noticed that before. Rather than delete the old, and replace it, I'm just going to add the black fin version.

BTW, I've got the black band on the fins as 7/8" wide, and 3/4" up from the root edge. Visually, this looks like what Estes is showing, but there's no measurements for the drawings so it's a best guess.





[EDIT] Today, I'm adding the Estes Panavia (9715) Pro Series II to this post. It's basically an Argent, with a Partizon's nosecone, and different paint. It's also very reminiscent of the Cherokee D, and would lend itself well for an upscale of the either the long or short version of that.



I'll say that the design is stock. However, the markings are "Stock"(ish), as Estes (as of this time) hasn't posted a painting guide for this kit.
 

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So it looks like the Sahara is a shortened Argent with Partizon fins? This one is growing on me.

I bet it would fly great on an F15-4, low and slow long burn. Or stratospheric on a G125? Time to sim!

And that Redstone... OpenRocket Ninja indeed. Great work as always.
 
So it looks like the Sahara is a shortened Argent with Partizon fins? This one is growing on me.

I bet it would fly great on an F15-4, low and slow long burn. Or stratospheric on a G125? Time to sim!

And that Redstone... OpenRocket Ninja indeed. Great work as always.

Thanks!

That's the consensus, the Sahara is a shortened Argent w/Partizon fins. I think of it as one of the PSII's SPEV's. I'd have rather have seen an upscale of the Cherokee D. I might have to do that with the Part Of Zon that I have. I've got the long version already (at home), maybe the short version is in order.

Yeah, I think I'm going to have to stick with Ninja for a while... Guru requires that I know the inner workings of OR, and I'm not there yet.
 
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