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  1. #1
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    Cool K'Tesh's OpenRocket files...

    If you're new to my OR files, WELCOME! Repeat visitor? WELCOME BACK!!! There's been some changes.

    First I'll start off with my Public Service Reminder..

    As you're about to see, I'm always looking for resources on old and new kits so that I can sim them in OpenRocket, or (hopefully) build or clone them someday. I'm sure that a lot of others are too.

    When you've got an old kit, please check to see if the instructions, fins, and decals are archived either at plans.rocketshoppe.com, or JimZ's site. If what you're building isn't there, or are somehow different, or the image they have lacks any kind of reference to it dimensions (including thickness), is bad (e.g. diecrushed fins), or they only have is a drawing of the fins, I'd ask you to scan yours with a ruler, and post them either here, at YORF, or at TRC (preferably all 3). Photos are good for documentation. But scans are far easier to gather information from.

    Tags:
    Did you know that Estes has changed its tags over the years? Sure! Who doesn't? Those tags can be really helpful for a BAR in IDing the variant they want (either on Ebay, or trying to clone). Including that information will help a lot of people.

    Instructions:
    The longer a kit has been in production, the more likely that it has somehow evolved over time... Especially the older kits. Hand cut balsa gave way to diecut (crushed) fins. Balsa nosecones were replaced with plastic, then balsa, then plastic again. Shapes of nosecones evolved over time. Engine mounts have changed locations and sizes (Remember the short-lived short E motor Estes had back in the 90's?). Decals change on occasion (and not always for the better... (Estes Wizard)). Even body tubes have changed lengths (There's the Cherokee D with the 16.35" body tube that was later changed to a 18" body tube). All these changes lead to a plethora of variants (I'm looking at you Big Bertha... Alpha... and especially YOU, Omega!), and there's always a chance that someone that is out there that is looking to create that rocket that they got (or didn't get) for Christmas, or their birthday that year. You'll help them (and me) if you can scan those instructions.

    Fins:
    Many times I've found that the drawings of a rocket's fins are off. Tracings outlined from them often causes them to become too large, or the angle or lengths that were given by the person doing it was off. There's nothing quite as frustrating as spending time trying to recreate your old favorite (including wasting valuable decals), only to have your eye constantly drawn to something that just seems... Off. Then to find that your resource didn't proof the drawing or measurements. RocketReviews.com has more than it's fair share of really bad .rkt files and poorly simmed fin templates.

    Decals:
    These things are gold... Nothing can bring a rocket to life quite as much as the colorful decals that came with a kit. Sure, there are those who don't want to have a cookie cutter version of their rocket (and more power to them). However, often it's the markings that drew many of us to a specific design. It'll help a whole lot of old BARs recapture that feeling of having an old rocket that they lost to time, or scratch that itch they had when they weren't able to buy/build the kit of their childhood dreams. Again, keep in mind that the longer the kit's been in production, the more chance that there have been changes to the decals.

    Scans:
    I've found that .png and .tif files are much more reliable for creating useful tracings of in making my .ork files. However, sometimes my browser doesn't like .tif files, making them a pain sometimes. Pdf files are great (sometimes), but I can't always right click and copy an image, making them a source of frustration as well occasionally. Then there's .jpgs. Jpegs are common, but extremely problematic for me. Unfortunately, my skills with high power (read: expensive, or feature laden) image processing software is very limited (by my knowledge on how to use them, or ability to purchase more intuitive versions). Jpeg files compress images in a manner that frequently makes finding edges a royal PITA. Toss in a curved edge, and the frustration only increases. DPI? Maximize this. 300 is good, 600 is better. Please remember to have a ruler in your scan, as well as indicating thickness of balsa, or other flat parts (oddball centering rings and the like). A Digital Micrometer is a very useful tool to have for gauging thicknesses. They aren't really expensive (mine was less than $20 USD at Harbor Freight (I brought mine with me to China)), and I'm sure you'll find it useful for other things once you've got one.

    Thanks!
    Jim

    Now a caution ...
    NOTICE: My .ork files are intended to give the user the most accurate possible VISUAL simulation needed to create for themselves an exact as possible clone of the original rocket. Due to my use of "Phantom body tubes" and "Fin decals" to place things like launch lugs, stand-offs, engine hooks, decals, etc., the performance of the simulation will most likely NOT match the actual rocket. As such, it is up to the end user to update the downloaded file to suit their needs for flight performance.

    I take ownership of my files. I often improve them as I can, when I can. Please look for messages in the individual posts for edits that indicate that I've changed things. Sometimes these are for more accurate appearance, other times it's to implement new techniques I've developed that will improve the accuracy of the sim's visuals AND flight performance. As such, I sometimes will ask you to toss an old .ork file and download a fresh one.

    NEW!!! An index has been added to post number 2.

    Now that that's out of the way...

    On with the show!!!


    Ok, it feels like I've created one or two (hundred) Open Rocket files. I think it's time I go ahead and start posting the sims of the rockets in one place (as well as their scattered associated builds).

    These will be as accurate as I can possibly make them. Modifications will be noted (I like redshifting things...)

    So, with that, what to be my first file... Hmmm.....




    The Cineroc Movie Camera and Omega (K-52)(Without Payload Section):

    The Cineroc was probably one of the most desired rockets out there back-in-the-day (maybe even more so now). Mint condition versions of the Cineroc can sell for hundreds of dollars on Ebay. The camera was designed by Mike Dorffler, and was introduced to the Estes lineup in 1970 beside the Cherokee D. The camera operates on two N cell batteries that were included with the Super 8mm film packets. Users would load the film cartridges, install the batteries, then have only a few seconds once the camera was started to get the rocket into the air. The cartridges were then sent into Estes for developing (if not done at home in a dark room), and the film was returned to the filmmaker.

    At least two versions of the camera were made (the earlier version lacked gussets at the joints with the battery's bulkhead, and the plate that attached it to the aft transition). Due to difficulties in film developing, as well as sourcing motors, and lenses, the Cineroc was discontinued in 1975. Users could modify their Cineroc by using an eyebolt added to the nosecone to get horizontal or "look down" views as the rocket returned under parachute.

    There have been some famous (in and out of the hobby) people associated with the Cineroc, besides its designer and Vern Estes, including Herb Desind (who apparently bought hundreds (if not thousands) of them), author and one of the founding fathers of the hobby G. Harry Stine, and Apollo 11 astronaut Michael Collins. It is my hope to motivate Estes to bring back the Omega, along with a 21's century update to the camera (or a shell suitable for Makers to do so).







    The Omega (K-52)(without payload section) kit made it's first and only photographed appearance as a stand-alone product in the 1970 Catalog on page 99 (alongside the K-52P (payload version) kit). In that catalog, the only decals visible on both kits was the black and blue fin decals. The K-52 was sold as a stand alone kit until 1972 when it made it's last appearance in the catalog. Presumably, the K-52 was what was bundled with the Cineroc for the duration of its run, but I haven't confirmed that yet.







    The catalog photo of the Cineroc/Omega Combination Offer (RC-8), found on page 49 of the 1974 catalog, showed a decal that had been seen on some Omega kits in some of the previous years' catalogs Omega offerings. Apparently, this decal was never included in any kit sold. Careful observers may have noticed that it looks like the booster had separated slightly (perhaps 1/4") from the sustainer in the photo. It appears that the same photo (slightly reoriented) was used in the 1975 catalog, when the Cineroc made it's last appearance. Below is my interpretation of the model in those photos. This is the version I am trying to recreate. The blue color of the decals was averaged from a sample from a scan of an actual fin decal. Tango Papa may be a source for the fin decals, along with the white Cineroc decal, and the body tube decal.

    Recommended engines for the Two Stage flights: D13-0 Booster, D13-7 Upper, Using D13-5 for payloads over 5 oz. Single Stage: D13-5. As I've only seen the early versions of the instructions, I'm not sure if the instructions were updated to reflect later motor recommendations, but presumably they were changed in 1972 when the K-52P's motors were changed.




    The Estes CinerocDV and Omega Project

    This is my project to update the Cineroc to digital video (hence the DV suffix) and redshift the Omega. Here is what my concept of the camera and the rocket will look like with decals from Tango Papa. Externally, the only differences are the markings and the launch lug (increased from a 1/8" to a 3/16" launch rod). Inside however, the camera would have an 808 #16 camera mounted inside the camera body instead of the Super8 film camera designed by Mike Dorffler. The rocket will be updated to allow it to use 24mm "E" motors and have TTW fins.


    Doug Bertelsen and Boyce Aerospace Hobbies have worked on the 3D printing of the camera. I'm hoping that the files will be posted for everyone to enjoy soon.

    Estes CinerocDV and Omega (Redshifted)(Modified 1974 Catalog Photo Markings)


    The file for this is found in post #2, as I've reached the limit for attachments in this post already.

    The Omega (K-52P/1200)

    Now these following images are of sims I've created of the various incarnations of the payload version of the Astron Omega (as it was called in 1970). For these, I went ahead with the standoffs (1/8" thick), but I didn't add the rail guides. The first is modeled on the 1970 catalog version of the Omega (which used a BNC-60AH (balsa) nosecone), the second shows it in the 1971 catalog livery, the third shows the early (two-piece, injection molded) PNC-60AH nosecone, and the fourth is modeled on the later (one-piece, blow molded) PNC-60AH (plastic) nosecone. Thanks to scigs30, I've confirmed that it was issued with the two-piece PNC-60AH nosecone (injection molded in white), but have yet to locate a scan of that version's instructions. That said, if you look at the scans of the instructions on JimZ's website, the k-52a.tif image seems to show a black two-piece PNC-60AH nosecone (minus the base and eye bolt) (thanks to Mike Toelle for pointing that out). scigs30's build on YORF clearly has the base included, and other comments from people who build one "back in the day" bears this out (that and, photos of kits for sale on Ebay also show it included), but the instructions seen in the k-52e.tif and k-52f.tif clearly show the one-piece nosecone. One thing to note is that the original balsa nosecone appears to be a blunted elliptical shape, compared to the blunted ogive shape of the later plastic nosecones.

    The stock paint scheme for the 1970 Catalog version had the payload section painted white, just like the rest of the model. I have yet to see if there's a recommended paint scheme for the balsa nosecone (it could have been black or silver), as it was photographed in black and white. There was photograph of the K-52 version w/o the payload bay and nosecone.




    In 1971 the paint scheme changed and the catalog had color photographs. The nosecone was black, and the payload section was painted silver. The catalog photo also had a decal on the sustainer body tube that read "cineroc OMEGA" and included the Estes logo. However, that decal was apparently never shipped out with any version of the Omega or Cineroc. There was no photograph or painting of the K-52 (w/o payload section) version in the 1971 or 1972 catalogs. The 1972 photo of the K-52P was the same as the 1971, however the image was cropped to eliminate the Astron Delta rocket that was next to it when it was photographed. Unlike the previous catalog (and later catalogs) the rocket was sitting on its bottom, and there was no gap between the sustainer and the booster.



    The recommended motors for the OMEGA (K-52P) also changed over time. From 1970 to 1971 the recommended motors were as follows: Two Stage flights: D13-0 Booster, D13-7 Upper, Using D13-5 for payloads over 5 oz. Single Stage: D13-5. Beginning in 1972 and continuing on until its last appearance as kit number 1200 in 1980 the recommended motors were changed to the D12-0 Booster, D12-7 Upper, using D12-5 for payloads over 5 oz. Single Stage: D12-5

    Beginning with the 1973 catalog, the shape of the nosecone may have changed to its near-final look (it appears to be a painting, and not a photograph). According to my measurements of an injection molded cone compared to a a PNC-60AH from the 1980s, the exposed length of the earlier injection molded nosecone is 2mm shorter than the later blow molded nosecone. I've modeled it as if it was 1/4" shorter based on outdated information. The cineroc/OMEGA decal didn't appear on the payload version (found on page 30), or the drawing of the Omega (without the Cineroc payload) found on page 50.




    In the 1974 and all following catalogs, the nosecone's shape still had a blunted ellipsoid appearance to it, but it's clear the at some time the rocket changed. First to an injection molded plastic nosecone (either in black (with a yellow hang tag) or in white (unknown hang tag color)). Then later to a one-piece blow-molded nosecone in white plastic.

    Also in the 1974 catalog, the Cineroc/Omega decal made its appearance in photos again, this time with the actual camera/rocket combo on page 49, whereas Omega's payload version didn't (on page 30). Additionally, beginning in 1974, the catalog image of the Omega (still K-52P) took on the purplish hue to the fin decals that some claim that it was shipped with. However, I have yet to find any evidence (e.g.: actual decal sheet, photograph, or scan), of the decals showing that they had ever been actually changed to purple.

    In 1975, the Omega was now kit #1200, and the decals looked as half blue (left side) half purple (right side). There is also a noticeable gap (dark band) between the sustainer and the booster in all the following catalogs that the Omega appeared in. All subsequent appearances looked to be derived from the same image as the 1975 catalog. In 1977, 78, and 79, there's a photograph of a couple ?20-somethings? (in bell bottoms) launching an Omega. Its nosecone looks to be the familiar PNC-60AH shape that it is today. The final appearance of the Omega was in 1980.




    Theoretically, a K-52P wouldn't need a standoff if it was only intended to fly just the payload section and not the Cineroc, but that wouldn't be stock, and I've seen no evidence that suggests that Estes ever altered the instructions to remove any mention of the Cineroc.


    The SEMROC Omega (KV-64)
    Carl McLawhorn created Semroc's Retro Reproduction of the Omega, and released it as the KV-64. His version was not a true clone, and included changes to the fins (laser cutting, dimensions and adding fin tabs (to reduce roll during flights)), launch lugs (to accommodate 3/16" launch rods) , and a redshift to a 24mm x 95mm ("E") motors. The Semroc version also featured a payload section that was designed to resemble the Cineroc. They also offered, separately, a (non-stock) payload section which would strongly resemble the 1970 or 1971 version of the Estes Omega (depending on the builder's choice in paint scheme). Their Omega also includes a decal for the body tube. The instructions also show that the Semroc logo as above the name "OMEGA", however the provided decals have it located below. The fin decals also are a noticeably darker blue color than the Estes decals. The yellow bands, while appearing on the instructions were not included as decals in the kit, nor does the instructions specify their widths. I went with 1/4" bands. I was lucky enough to actually talk to Carl and Sheryl about the kit, shortly before he passed away. I'd also like to say "Thanks" to the current owner of Semroc, Randy Boadway (eRockets.biz) for his support of this sim.



    Pointy Side Up!
    Jim

    Previous version of Cineroc w/Omega viewed 40x, Cineroc w/Omega (Mod) viewed 95x, 1970 catalog version viewed 51x, 1971 catalog version viewed 52x, K-52P version viewed 91x, K-52 (Cineroc booster version) viewed 85x

    Last edited by K'Tesh; 20th December 2016 at 09:34 AM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  2. #2
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    Index of my .ork files

    Estes Cineroc/CinerocDV (CM-8)
    Estes Omega (K-52/K-52P/1200) variants
    Semroc Omega (KV-64)
    Estes Mean Machine (1295)
    Estes Vigilante (1978)
    Estes Goblin (K-55)
    Centuri Magnum D Hornet (5341)
    Estes Hornet (3037)
    Centuri Spirit Of America (5344)
    Estes Camroc Carrier (1266) variants
    EnerJet Egg Crate (KE-4) variants
    Estes Magnum Payloader (1422/2032)
    Estes Eggspress (1996)
    Estes Scrambler (2972)
    Estes Cherokee D (K-47/1247) variants
    Binder Design Raptor (downscale)
    Binder Design Velociraptor (downscale)
    Binder Design Velociraptor (prototype)
    Binder Design Velociraptor (54mm Powered, Stock)
    Binder Design Velociraptor (Lng Do Lng)
    Estes Scrambler II (1908)
    Estes Citation Patriot (KC-3/0652)
    Estes Sizzler (2127)
    Estes Yellow Jacket (2008)
    Estes Maxi Icarus (1331)
    Estes Vagabond (1317)
    Estes Aerospace Club EAC Viper (0820)
    Estes Leviathan (9700) Pro Series II

    Estes Ventris (9701) Pro Series II

    Estes Argent (09703) Pro Series II
    Estes Partizon (9702) Pro Series II
    Estes Warp II (2022)
    Estes Loadstar II (3227)
    Estes Marauder (1922)
    Fantazia 35" Crayon Bank
    Estes Maverick (1904)
    Estes Stiletto (1323)
    Estes Shark Coldpower Convertible (1111)
    Estes Sizzler (1906) variants
    Estes Defender (1924)
    Estes Optima (2035) variants
    Estes Photon Disruptor II (2052)
    Estes Photon Disruptor (1282)
    Estes Photon Probe (2048)
    Estes Crossfire ISX (7220)
    Estes Nova Payloader (1960)
    Estes Astron Sprint XL (7224)
    Estes Astron Sprint (K-49)
    Estes A-20 Demon (K-58)
    Estes Apache-2 (1388)
    Centuri Tiger Streak (5357)
    Estes Wizard (1292)

    Binder Design 4" Excel with Dual Deploy kit
    Binder Design Excelerator Dual Deploy
    Binder Design Excelerator Dual Deploy (reworked)
    Estes Scion (9712) Pro Series II
    Binder Design Aerospatiale Exocet MM38 Missile
    Estes Exocet MM38 (1925)
    Estes Solar Flare (2401)

    Estes Bandit (K-48)
    Estes AstroCam 110 (1327) variants
    Estes Extreme 12 (7225)
    Estes AIM-45A Sentinel Missile (1987)
    Estes Black Brant II (1958)

    Estes Alpha (1225) variants
    Estes Mega Mosquito (1335)
    JPL Deep Space OFFl
    Estes Cougar (1923)
    Estes Rocket Red Crayon (1102)
    Binder Design 4" AV/Dual Deploy Bays

    Estes Der Red Max (MK-2/651) variants
    Estes Der Big Red Max (1977)
    Estes Mega Der Red Max ()
    Estes Mercury Redstone (1921)(Freedom 7)
    Estes Sahara (9713) Pro Series II
    Estes Panavia (9715)Pro Series II
    Binder Design Excelerator (downscale)
    Estes Gamma (1325)
    Estes Big Daddy (2162)

    Estes Mosquito (TK-1)
    Estes Zoom Broom (853)
    Estes Supernova Payloader (2011)
    Binder Design Terrordactyl
    Estes Comet Chaser (3202)
    JPL Rubic's Rocket
    Estes Tornado (2004)
    Estes Missile Toe (0854)
    Estes Scamp (1286)
    Estes Cosmic Explorer (2421)
    Centuri Payloader II (KC-20)(ca. 1969)
    Estes Marauder (KL-3) Cold Powered Convertible
    Estes Spin Fin (1355)
    .
    Other Useful Links:


    [EDIT] The first post is getting quite crowded with attachments, so I've had to add the newest versions here

    Today, I got around to redoing the Mean Machine (below)[/EDIT]


    Here's my latest .ork file... The Estes Mean Machine (1295) (E Powered Mod)



    There are 3 versions of the Mean Machine. In the 1980's it had white decals, in the 90's they changed to blue, and finally, in 2007, an E powered, yellow decaled version was released. I suspect the only difference between the other versions was the decal color. I'm still researching them. Apparently, the kit wasn't adapted to take the short lived 3 1/2" long E motors (from 1995 to 1996).



    The last version included a Twist Lock Coupler that allowed the rocket to be broken down for transportation.

    To simulate the fin decals on the one side only required the use of "Air Fins". Delete the Phantom Body Tube (aka PBT) from the file to increase the sim's flight characteristics accuracy.

    If you're looking for the Twist Lock Coupler, I've got it as a stand alone .ork file now, and am still trying to update the sims for stock versions of the other two releases of the Mean Machine.



    Thanks to JumpJet, Gary Byrum, T-Rex, and Lowpuller for their help with the E powered version.

    Last edited by K'Tesh; 8th February 2017 at 08:12 AM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

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    Another trio of recent sims are the stock version of the Estes Vigilante (thought it looks like I might have used the wrong yellow for the fins, I checked, and it's only the way the simulation's light is oriented), my redshifted version of it (D/E Powered, W/Payload), and the BT-60 upscale (again D/E Powered, w/Payload Section).



    [EDIT] Thanks to the lack of launch lug stand-offs, engine hooks, and fin decals, the (Stock, Decaled).ork version has no error messages, and can be used for simulating flight characteristics without any oddities.

    Estes Vigilante (1278)(24mm Powered Mod)(Accurate Fins)


    Estes Vigilante (1278)(BT-60 Upscale, 24mm Powered Mod)(Accurate Fins)


    Previous version of the stock's .ork file was downloaded 94 times.
    Last edited by K'Tesh; 21st December 2016 at 09:47 AM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

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    Estes Goblin (K-55) using the modern PNC-55AO (instead of the BNC-55AO).



    I've updated the file to include the decals. To do this, I had to add a Phantom Body tube with "Air Fins". Deleting that PBT will make the sim useable for flight performance simulations.

    Original version of the .ork file was downloaded 115 times, the updated version was downloaded 102 times.
    Last edited by K'Tesh; 19th December 2016 at 04:21 PM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  5. #5
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    Any chance you could gather all the parts (nosecones, etc.) into a .zip file and post that? Possibly a follow-up of all the "complete rocket" sin files?

    And thanks for all the work you've put in!

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    www.rocketreviews.com is a better place for this IMHO.
    Last edited by samb; 3rd March 2015 at 04:35 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by samb View Post
    W www.rocketreviews.Com is a better place for this IMHO.
    Problem is... I don't like RocketReviews interface (I haven't been able to make things appear like I want), and it doesn't have much support for .ork files. I also REALLY don't like the way .rkt files appear in OR (everything is blue in the 3D view).
    Last edited by K'Tesh; 3rd March 2015 at 04:30 PM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by K'Tesh View Post
    Problem is... I don't like RocketReviews interface (I haven't been able to make things appear like I want), and it doesn't have much support for .ork files. I also REALLY don't like the way .rkt files appear in OR (everything is blue in the 3D view).
    To each his own. I could care less about the interface; I prefer RR for the easily searchable repository of files.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2015-03-03 09_51_45-OpenRocket Library - Estes.jpg 
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Size:	151.4 KB 
ID:	256451

  9. #9
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    These are my files.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	files.jpg 
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ID:	256461  

  10. #10
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    What a tool.
    Charles McGonegal
    Ciderwright at AeppelTreow Winery & Distillery
    www.appletrue.com
    NAR #103560 L1 6/25/17 Estes Leviathan CTI H175-SS
    Ad Astra Tabernamque!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles_McG View Post
    What a tool.
    Yes, and 100% recyclable!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sooner.boomer View Post
    Any chance you could gather all the parts (nosecones, etc.) into a .zip file and post that? Possibly a follow-up of all the "complete rocket" sin files?

    And thanks for all the work you've put in!

    Glad to be able to share what I've done with people.

    the .zip file issue... Not for some time. As I'm going through my files, I'm checking them against the instructions to make sure that they're correct. That takes time, and as I fix them, I can't keep deleting and uploading the .zip file after the corrections.

    A prime example. It looks like I somehow botched the color of the stock Vigilante's fins. When I get home, I'll need to doublecheck that, then create an updated .jpg, and upload that and the corrected .ork... It's a lot of work, and adding the .zip to that would just be too much.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  13. #13
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    This will be a cool resource!
    Cody Smith
    NAR JR #93698
    TRA JR #15282 TMP Certified!
    Level One- 4/19/14 LOC IV H148R
    MMMSC, KARSNH
    www.starleopard.net
    Check out my blog!

  14. #14
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    Ok... The fins on the Vigilante were the correct color... It's just the simulated glare that made them look paler than the body tube.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

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    Tonight I'm adding in the Centuri Magnum D Hornet (5341):





    [EDIT] I worked on this again recently. However, I'm not 100% on the decals dimensions, but since nobody has come forth with the correct dimensions, I'll go ahead with posting this, along with a message that they are a best guess only. Also, the decal on the yellow fin required an additional "air fin" to be able to display it properly. As such, it will be for decal alignment, and not flight performance, unless the end user deletes the "air fin".

    Please also note that the Centuri Magnum D Hornet was shown in the 1981 and 1983 catalogs with a black band aft of the fins, but no decal was apparently included in the kit. The 1982 catalog didn't have the black band.

    I've also added the Estes Hornet (3037) version of the Centuri classic here. The nosecone was changed from the PNC-55AC to the PNC-55AO, the fins were altered (and are now laser cut), and the motors were altered from 24mm "D" motors to 18mm motors. [/EDIT]



    Fin dimensions were provided by John Boren, scans of the decals by sandeja1, and additional thanks goes out to hcmbanjo, and Icorinth for their help on this.

    Due to the addition of one fin decal, I've added an "air fin" to simulate its appearance, the flight performance without it, or the simulated engine hook improved the projected altitude from 812 ft to 848 ft (which I edited into the image above). Deleting the phantom body tubes associated with the fin and the engine hook should provide accurate sim results.

    Previous version of the Centuri Hornet downloaded 130 times
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by K'Tesh; 20th December 2016 at 07:53 AM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  16. #16
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    I must be in a Centuri mood tonight... Here's the Centuri Spirit Of America (5344).



    Finally managed to get decals on this little file. Made some tweaks to the fins (evened them up, and corrected the location), and updated the organization of the file to match my latest methods. I omitted the Centuri logo on the fins for a couple of reasons. First, they would have made me add "Air Fins" to get them to look right. Next, while they appeared in photos found in the catalog, face card, and instructions, they weren't included on the paint and decal instructions (see the image below). Finally, they weren't included in the kit.

    Fins are cardstock (.050" thick), the nosecone is a listed as a PNC-92, but a part number search revealed it to be a blowmolded PNC-50Y. The launch lug really is 3" long, and the MMT protrudes 1/4" behind the body tube (Centuri seemed to liked doing that).

    The only OR magic I did on this was to add the engine hook.

    The old version of the .ork file is completely obsolete, and should be tossed.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Centuri Spirit Of America (5344) (paint and decal instructions).png 
Views:	850 
Size:	303.7 KB 
ID:	307629

    Thanks to SCIGS30, Woody's Workshop, and Doug Bertelsen for their help on this sim.

    Previous version viewed 103 times.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by K'Tesh; 19th December 2016 at 11:10 AM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  17. #17
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    Tonight it's the Estes Camroc with the Camroc Carrier (1266)




    To accommodate the transition from the camera to the body tube, I had to "chop" the body tube at the joint... It would obviously be one continuous body tube. Likewise to get the camera to sit on the rocket, I had to omit the aft transition of it. There's a comment in there for those who'd like to replicate that detail. In the latest version, I've changed the launch lugs to externalized "Inner tubes" which eliminates the PBT used for the old LLs. The altitude sims have increased from 243' to 302' thanks to that. There is an "Air Fin" for the decal, deleting that raised the altitude to 303'... Yup, one foot. The previous version of the sim is obsolete and should be tossed.


    Since I did one... I should probably do the other... So, here's the Estes Camroc Carrier (1266)(Payload Version)



    The nosecone is the two piece PNC-60L (Injection Molded). The clear plastic payload tube on my sample is 4 15/16" long, despite the part being listed as 5". Like the Camroc, I had to omit the rear conical portion of the transition from the payload section to get the payload section to sit on the rocket. A comment has been added with more details. In the updated version (decaled), I've redone the launch lugs to the new method. Altitude increased from 256' to 330'. The old version is completely obsolete and should be tossed.

    The fins were scanned in (the launch lug standoffs weren't), and then I imported them into the freeform fins. However, as close as this is, there was some pixilation that I'm not about to even try to fix. So, if you want the most accurate fins, print the image below, and scale it to 1 15/16" at the root edge. As the instructions call for the fins and the standoffs to be airfoiled, I added that detail to the .ork file.

    Estes Camroc Carrier Fin Template


    Previous version of Camroc with Camroc Carrier downloaded 100 times, the payload version was downloaded 109 times.
    Last edited by K'Tesh; 21st December 2016 at 03:30 AM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  18. #18
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    Ok, per my promise to TopRamen, I'll start uploading my egg lofters... First up... the EnerJet Egg Crate (KE-4). There were three versions of this rocket in the instructions, and from the catalog and photos, there may have been more than one nosecone options for it (or at least the prototype may have had a different nosecone).



    I've simmed it with the minimum recommended payload (1.5 oz.), and now added "decals" to it. The dimensions on the decals are just guesses (I was hoping to model Steve Naquin's color scheme exactly, but it seems that he's stepped away from YORF for a while now). I left off the "EnerJet" decal from the fins as it would have required the addition of an "Air Fin" and this has no warnings or error messages. This should flight sim quite well as is. The previous version is also just as good, and you could still use it (but it lacks the decals).

    The 5" payload version shows that it's unstable with the motor that was recommended. That said, this is a payload rocket, so presumably there was supposed to be some kind of nose weight that I haven't simmed in.



    The last version had a 12" payload section, and like the 5" version, it sims out as unstable with a (recommended) F52-8 motor.



    [EDIT] I just remembered something that I forgot... I wish I knew that the nosecone was not pre-sized for the Jumbo Egg. If you want the egg to fit inside that payload compartment, you need to trim the edges of the shoulder to allow for it to fit. Fortunately the problem was realized before I went out to the field, the egg was inside a plastic bag, and I remembered that very important saying...

    "Don't put all your eggs in one basket."[/EDIT]

    Previous version of the 2" Egg Lofter .ork was downloaded 106 times, the 5" payload version 98 times, and the 12" payload version 93 times.
    Last edited by K'Tesh; 21st December 2016 at 09:10 AM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by K'Tesh View Post
    The 5" payload version shows that it's unstable with the motor that was recommended. That said, this is a payload rocket, so presumably there was supposed to be some kind of nose weight that I haven't simmed in.
    Many of the Enerjet kits were unstable without payload. The Nike Smoke required the 'smoke' powder if using any motor larger than an E24. The Nike Ram was also unstable without payload. (Marginal on an E24.)

  20. #20
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    One of my favorite rockets is the Estes Magnum Payloader (2032). Here's what it looked like in stock configuration...

    Estes Magnum Payloader (2032)(Stock)



    [EDIT] A re-visit to this .ork file was called for when my skills with doing decals finally came up to meet the challenge... However, due to the nature of the writing on the fins, "air fins" were required. This messes up OR's ability to accurately simulate the flight performance. So, the decaled version is for looks only. Again, the decaled version (and their images) are not to be trusted for flight performance accuracy.[/EDIT]

    The blue used in this sim is sampled from a scan of the actual decals found on plans.rocketshoppe.com (the actual blue that best matches the decals is Testors' Gloss Bright Blue (1210)), the grey details in the sim would actually be silver.


    One thing that didn't grab me at the time, was the split fins, so I always built it with the gap between the fins filled, and altering the tip edge of the sustainer's fin. I liked the look, and you can see it here. I also redshifted the rocket so that it was a D booster to D sustainer (or D to E). Nice looking rocket, but unfortunately one lawndarted, and the other was destroyed when the booster's motor exploded.

    Estes Magnum (Payloader)(Mod)(Redshifted)



    My biggest problem with this rocket was matching that beautiful blue shade of the decals. Twenty three years later, I found that the decals match Testors' Gloss Bright Blue (1210). Before I figured that out, I had given up, and had a set of black decals made for me. This modification includes a change to D booster to E sustainer motor, and has added fin tabs. Other than that (and the color), it's stock.



    Estes Magnum (Payloader)(Mod)(Black)(Redshifted)



    I've created a .pdf file for the fin pattern found on plans.rocketshoppe and uploaded it here. Whenever I tried to print their .jpg, I'd always get an image that was too large to fit on a single page. As a .pdf (Estes Magnum 1422 Fins.pdf),it printed perfectly for me first time. The other .pdf file (Estes Magnum Payloader Fins (both Mods).pdf) has a complete set of both modified versions of the fins.

    [EDIT] All .ork files have been updated to correct the problem (which you might read about later in this thread) with the booster's fins [/EDIT]
    Previous version of the "Stock' .ork was downloaded 78 times.
    Last edited by K'Tesh; 21st December 2016 at 06:37 AM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  21. #21
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    K'Tesh, buddy, you are truly gifted with OpenRocket. I didn't know most of the stuff you're doing was even possible.
    Daniel J. Petrie - The Rocket N00b - NAR # 100015
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  22. #22
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    Thanks Daniel... I just played with the program until I figured out how to get it to do what I wanted.


    Here's something for TopRamen... The Eggspress (1996) and the Scrambler (2972)



    [EDIT] In the new (Stock, Decaled) ,ork file, the Eggspress' Phantom Body Tube (for Launch Lug placement) has been deleted, and externalized "Internal Body Tubes" are now in place to take the place of it. Those are not calculated into the flight characteristics of the rocket now. The Engine Hook is still there, so you'll see the discontinuity, thick fins, and jagged edged fin error messages. If you delete the phantom body tube associated with them, those errors will go away. "Air fins" were added to accommodate the asymmetrical decal placement. Even with the "Air Fins", flight performance was improved by over 80' in both sims.



    The "Discontinuity in rocket body diameter" "Jagged-edged fin predictions may be inaccurate" and "Thick fins may not be modeled accurately" error messages are caused by the the engine hook and the phantom body tube used for placing it. Since the rockets were stable enough for Estes (or whoever) to sell them, I ignore the messages.


    [EDIT] The Scrambler has been updated with decals. Again, the phantom body tube for the launch lugs is gone. However, I had to add "Air Fins" for the asymmetrical fin decal placement. I've saved some time for myself and just allowed the computer to create a mirrored version for one of the fins (the two decals for the fins would face the same direction (one would face the body tube, one faces away). I also placed the decals as I would have wanted to place them, and not in the stock locations).

    [EDIT] I just remembered something that I forgot... I wish I knew that the Estes Scrambler/Eggscalibur nosecone (originally from the Enerjet Egg Crate), was not pre-sized for the Jumbo Egg. If you want the egg to fit inside that payload compartment, you need to trim the edges of the shoulder to allow for it to fit. Fortunately the problem was realized before I went out to the field, the egg was inside a plastic bag, and I remembered that very important saying...

    Don't put all your eggs in one basket.[/EDIT]

    Previous versions of the .ork files for the Scrambler were downloaded 98 times for the "stock version", and 142 times for the UPDATED "stock version". The previous version of the Eggspress was downloaded 102 times.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by K'Tesh; 19th December 2016 at 09:53 AM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  23. #23
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    (Long)(Stock)Now for what is possibly the most cloned rocket out there... Estes premier D Powered rocket. The Cherokee D (K-47/1247)

    What a lot of people don't know is that the Cherokee D originally shipped in 1970 with a balsa nosecone (the BNC-55AC) and with a shorter body tube (a BT-55V at 16.35")... So, here's the short (and long) of it.



    The BNC-55AC is modeled on the specs I found in an old custom parts catalog, and my best guess (for the blunted tip). The fin pattern I found shows that the fins are 1/8" thick. However, my model (purchased and built in 1983 IIRC) has much thinner fins (actual measurement was .110, but there is a heavy amount of paint (it was one of my earliest rockets). So, I'm presuming that w/o paint it would have been 3/32" thick back in the day. I've read that the body tube was extended to 18" starting in 1971, and continued to be 18" until the end of production in 1983. Sometime during production (I believe in 1971, but can't be sure of that) Estes switched from the balsa nosecone to the plastic nosecone (PNC-55AC) which doesn't have the blunted tip of its predecessor. Oddly enough the length in the catalog never changed, nor did it show shipping with anything other than a balsa nosecone.



    Fin pattern was printed from JimZ's site, applied to some balsa stock, then cut out, sanded to shape, and scanned with a pair of rulers, then converted to a black and white (two color) image, and imported into OR.

    Or... you could just print this image, and scale it...

    Name:  Estes Cherokee D (K-47)Fin Template (color).jpg
Views: 2301
Size:  59.5 KB




    Oh... but what about my 2.5" Estes Pro Series II based upscale? Well, I created one for that too...

    [EDIT]I've learned how to do decal files in OR now. Here's the Estes Cherokee D (Long) Pro Series II Upscale (Decaled).

    NOTICE: Modifications were done to allow for proper appearance. The fins are slightly out of place and I added some fins made of "air". So, it is up to the end user to correct them.



    Mind you, I designed and built it with rail buttons, but at the moment, rail buttons are not an option for OR. Thanks to the Cineroc, I figured out how to model the PSII Motor Retainers too (Inner tubes don't have to fit inside the part they're "inside"). Mine is built zipperless, and due to the damage in shipping my fin can was cut down to 8 3/8 inches long. The sim has it at 15 1/2" long (the length of the stock Estes part).

    BTW... though the Estes Magician 002440 has fins with a similar shape to the Cherokee D, my measurements showed that they were just a tad too small to be accurate.

    Previous version of the (Long)(Stock) .ork was downloaded 125 times, the (Short)(Stock) version was downloaded 122 times, and the 2.5" PSII Upscale version 125 times.
    Last edited by K'Tesh; 21st December 2016 at 06:32 AM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  24. #24
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    I think for my next sims I'll put up the Binder Design Velociraptor and Raptor downscales I did...



    [EDIT] Finally managed to get decals applied to the BT-60 based, downscaled Velociraptor and Raptor's ork files. Also corrected some issues that I found along the way. I'd recommend tossing the old file, and downloading a fresh copy.

    Markings on the Velociraptor's sim are based on the prototype. [/EDIT]

    Per a request, I've also just added a single stage version of the Velociraptor to the .ork files below.





    Yes, my Raptor's canard fins are wrong... I got the file from RocketReviews, and I emailed Mike to verify that they were correct... He confirmed it, then after seeing them on the actual rocket, told me that he forgot that when he uploaded the file to RR.com, he altered the fins to see who would clone his rocket, rather than buy from him.



    I'm planning on a 2nd one that has accurate fins (First Rule of Government spending: Why build one when you can build two at twice the price?) not that there's anything wrong with my first one... I'm just hoping that the 2nd one will be a tad larger (say 4" OD body tube instead of a BT-60).

    More to Come...

    Velociraptor's previous version downloaded 94 times
    Both Raptor variant's previous versions were downloaded 87 times each.
    Last edited by K'Tesh; 14th July 2016 at 10:01 AM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  25. #25
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    Tonight it's the Estes Scrambler II (1908) Egg Lofter...



    [EDIT] Gone is the Phantom Body Tube for the Launch Lugs. Launch Lugs are simmed with externalized "Inner tubes", and thus are not factored in the aerodynamics.

    Rather than adding an "Air Fin" for the single fin decal, I went ahead and let the computer mirror the decal (and some aftermarket decal makers include a 2nd fin decal anyway).

    The "Discontinuity" and "Jagged-edge" warnings are due to the Engine Hook, and the PBT needed to place it.[/EDIT]

    Now, the fins and standoffs are a bit of a problem... The image I recently found on JimZ's site is really blurry and when I printed it and scaled it, I was unable to determine what the length of the fins were at the root. Foamy measured his and provided me with a .pdf for the fins. However, his image doesn't go down to the 1/16" of an inch. So I'm making some guesses about the exact size and shape of them in this .ork file. My interpretation of the standoffs are that they are 1 3/8" at the fin root, 1" at the tip, and 19/64" high. Right or wrong, with the correct decals, it'll be hard to tell.

    *UPDATE* I found the image I used (which was larger than the .tif I originally mentioned I was trying to use...) I'll print it out tomorrow, and give it the once over.

    The previous version of the .ork was downloaded 78 times.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Scrambler_2_Fin_Pattern.jpg 
Views:	128 
Size:	383.3 KB 
ID:	257700  
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by K'Tesh; 5th December 2016 at 10:39 AM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  26. #26
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    Now for another Classic design... The Estes Patriot (KC-3/0652) is also commonly called the Citation Patriot to eliminate confusion with the MUCH newer Patriot Missile (Yes, I feel that people should call the Patriot Missile "The Patriot Missile").

    [EDIT] I've updated the file (the 26.2 KB version) of the two stage payload version to include decals. This is what you'll see in a 3D view of the decaled file. I had to add an "Air Fin" to get the word "Patriot" to appear correctly on the fin, and I've added "Phantom Body Tubes" to add the engine hooks.




    When I was building rockets for my first period of rocketry, I built the 0652. I suspect that at some time the dimensions of the fins changed, as mine (which were stock) don't match the most common image found online for the Patriot. As I'm trying to re-build what I know, my .ork file is based on my measurements of my stock fins, and not that common image. I also modified it to be an E/E capable two-stage payload rocket taking ques from the Estes Magnum Payloader (2032)(payload section length), and the Omega (K-52P)(gap staging).

    Next we have the E Powered payload version (without the 2nd stage) [EDIT] The most recent version (with the decals you see below) is the 23 KB file attached at the bottom of this post.




    Below is what the two stage version would be like if it didn't have the payload section or the 2nd stage... Translation... This is an E powered clone of the original. The decaled version you see below is the 22.9 KB "Redshifted" .ork file attached to this post. It uses an "Air Fin" for the "Patriot" decal, and it also has a "Phantom Body Tube" to attach the engine hook.



    [EDIT] I've also created a .ork file for the stock version (seen below) that has been updated using OR's decal tools. The most recent file is the "Stock" 22.9 KB .ork file. It uses an "Air Fin" for the "Patriot" decal, and it also has a "Phantom Body Tube" to attach the engine hook.



    Here's what the actual rocket looks like with the payload section, and without the payload section (single stage). Mind you this rocket is about 32 years old.




    Previous version of the single stage payloader 93 times, the stock version 93 times, the two staged payloader was downloaded 90 times, and the E powered "stock" appearance 88 times respectively.
    Last edited by K'Tesh; 9th January 2017 at 12:49 PM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  27. #27
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    Thanks for the Patriot files, I remember that rocket from back in the '70s, my first time around the hobby as a kid, but never built one. So now that I've gotten back into it with my 9 year old son, I may have to clone this one? I suspect that getting those cool patriot decals may be the most challenging part of reproducing that look though.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by sredlin View Post
    Thanks for the Patriot files, I remember that rocket from back in the '70s, my first time around the hobby as a kid, but never built one. So now that I've gotten back into it with my 9 year old son, I may have to clone this one? I suspect that getting those cool patriot decals may be the most challenging part of reproducing that look though.

    Not at all... Mark/Stickershock has them in cut vinyl (stickershock23.com).
    Last edited by K'Tesh; 25th July 2016 at 02:37 PM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  29. #29
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    Okay, I'll have to look those guys up for decals when the time comes. Now I mainly just need the time to build another rocket, and I still have 3 on the bench that need to be painted and finished with decals, so this clone may have to wait a while? I've always thought it was a great looking rocket though, thanks again.

  30. #30
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    Played a little with MS Paint, and with OpenRocket tonight... Here's an improved version of the Citation Patriot II (Two Stage Payload Mod).

    [EDIT] The files below are only for the fin templates... If you look at post #26, you'll see the most up to date version of the .ork files I've created, which include more accurate decals (taken from actual scans), as opposed to what you see below.

    Estes Citation Patriot II (Two Stage Payload MOD)


    I've used OR to create the bands of color (black, gold, blue and red), and MS Paint to add in the Patriot, eagle, USA, and make the details of the red and blue body tube markings more distinct. The body tube's eagle is aligned the way my original Patriot was, In the real thing, I'll align it with the black fin and the USA. The red and blue fin stripes are simulated by using fins.

    Last edited by K'Tesh; 19th April 2016 at 07:53 PM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

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