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  1. #181
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    Jim... this thread got a shoutout on the OpenRocket development list earlier today.

    Matt, Tripoli #14257
    L1 11/13/16
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  2. #182
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    K'Tesh,

    Amazing job on these rockets!

    Oddly enough, I was recently downloading some rkt files from the Rocket Reviews website of some of the rockets that I own and the fin sizes were all over the map with most being quit a bit larger than the actual fins. At first I thought it was some error in the conversion of the rkt file to the ork file but noticed that in most cases the body tube diameter and other dimensions seemed correct. I just came to your thread today and found that you discovered the same thing with the discrapancies so it is nice to see that you are doing the files as accurately as possible.

    I have a few questions for you -
    1) On my finished view, I sometimes get jagged edges on the fins. How do you get such good resolution on your OpenRocket displays?

    2) Are the decals usable or just for display on OpenRocket?

    Best regards,
    Brian

    www.BRSHobbies.com - Full line of model rocket products! Free shipping offer! No backorders or delays!

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRS Hobbies View Post
    K'Tesh,

    Amazing job on these rockets!

    Oddly enough, I was recently downloading some rkt files from the Rocket Reviews website of some of the rockets that I own and the fin sizes were all over the map with most being quit a bit larger than the actual fins. At first I thought it was some error in the conversion of the rkt file to the ork file but noticed that in most cases the body tube diameter and other dimensions seemed correct. I just came to your thread today and found that you discovered the same thing with the discrapancies so it is nice to see that you are doing the files as accurately as possible.

    I have a few questions for you -
    1) On my finished view, I sometimes get jagged edges on the fins. How do you get such good resolution on your OpenRocket displays?

    2) Are the decals usable or just for display on OpenRocket?

    Best regards,
    Brian
    Hi Brian,

    Thanks for the complement.

    I'm presuming the problem is with curved fin designs (like the Sprint, or maybe the Binder Design Dragonfly)... When I sim curved fin shapes, I import my fins from an image so I have many more data points than most people.

    If that doesn't solve your problem, it would help to know more about the rockets you have problems with the fins with... Perhaps you could create a new thread and post your .ork files there (along with screen shots) to allow us to do some diagnostic work on.

    I'd say that the decals in my sims are just for display. Typically I'm scaling them for 1pixel = 1/100inch which is ok for the computer, but on upscales, I don't have to stick with that ratio, so the images might come out a tad grainy. Ideally, I'd prefer them to be 1 to 1000 or more. Additionally, I usually I have to manually clean the edges which can make them a little jagged, or have issue with color shifts. Additionally, the image files are for the entire component, paint and all. So, you might have some tiny 1/16" band of color on a 15" rocket, and you end up with a 1500 pixel tall image just for something that would be only 6 pixels tall on it.
    Last edited by K'Tesh; 7th June 2016 at 11:58 PM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  4. #184
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    Thank you for the fast reply.

    I looked closer on the finish view. It is more of getting a jagged line instead of getting a nice smooth straight line on the fins, transitions and the nose cone. I wasn't sure if OpenRocket had a high resolution mode since in general, the ones that you displayed in this thread seem to be crisper looking.

    Best regards,
    Brian
    www.BRSHobbies.com - Full line of model rocket products! Free shipping offer! No backorders or delays!

  5. #185
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    Also depends on your 3D acceleration settings on your computer - specifically if anti-aliasing is on.

    Open Rocket uses OpenGL for the 3D part, so you could check those settings for a higher quality output.
    Chris M.
    NAR 101470, MAAC, CRC
    L1 - Optima 3" - CTI H133 - 1189ft. - Geneseo, NY, May 28, 2016
    My YouTube channel

  6. #186
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    On the subject of jagged fin appearance in OR's 3D rendering, I suspect it may have something to do with the version of OR that is running, and also perhaps the scaling of the image.

    This image, that I added to the thread in March of 2015, apparently has the jagged appearance that BRS was talking about... It's a reduced scale image from flickr.




    This next image is much newer, and I kept it at the original image's scaling (from flickr).



    I haven't done anything special (like tweaking settings in OR) to accomplish this. However, I did buy a newer computer before coming to China, and that might also have something to do with it. My version of OR is currently 15.03.

    BTW... I noticed something on the "Stock" version of the Velociraptor. I have the silver band at 4", but in looking at the prototype, it's appears to be 5" (or more), and the black bands might also not be like the 1" wide ones that I show. However, Mike's been busy with a contract, so he hasn't had a chance to look that up for me. Since there really is no painting guide for the kit specifying band widths, the stock appearance is subject to the individual's interpretation. Oh, and my "decals" for the file are all scratch drawn images, based on photos of the prototype, that I used MS Paint to create, with the exceptions of the Binder Design logo, and the VELOCIRAPTOR name. Also, The "VELOCIRAPTOR" decal splits between the O" and the "C" on the actual prototype seen at Tammie's Hobbies in Beaverton, and not between the "C" and the "I" like I have here. I do plan to post an image of the Prototype VRaptor when I'm confident of the markings.
    Last edited by K'Tesh; 19th July 2016 at 04:03 PM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  7. #187
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    K'Tesh,

    First off, thanks a ton for saving me trouble!!! OR files with decals? Really?

    SOOOO stinkin' cool... but (here it comes), how do you get them on there within open rocket? Know of any tutorials?

    Thanks in advance!!

    fm

    (i ask bc he's a master!)

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Metal View Post
    K'Tesh,

    First off, thanks a ton for saving me trouble!!! OR files with decals? Really?

    SOOOO stinkin' cool... but (here it comes), how do you get them on there within open rocket? Know of any tutorials?

    Thanks in advance!!

    fm

    (i ask bc he's a master!)
    Glad you like them... Any one in particular catch your fancy?

    Oh, and you'll have to thank neil_w for the tutorial...
    http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthr...plete-tutorial
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by K'Tesh View Post
    Glad you like them... Any one in particular catch your fancy?

    Oh, and you'll have to thank neil_w for the tutorial...
    http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthr...plete-tutorial
    The Cherokee D of course!!!

    Actually like all of the estes stuff from before the 90's, wish I coulda got my hands on an interceptor (or any of those specials on up to the mid-power versions)

    Thanks again

    fm

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by K'Tesh View Post
    Working on the Estes "Rocket Red" Crayon (1102)



    Problem is, I don't have hard numbers for anything other than the nosecone (and the dimensions of the motor mount).
    My daughter has one, If you're willing, send me the base file and I'll measure and update, then send to ya!

    fm

  11. #191
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    Thanks fm!




    Here's the file that fm has modified. No decals for it, and no tricks to fake them. John was even detailed enough to add weights to the various parts.

    Enjoy!
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  12. #192
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    Anyone interested in the ASP Corporal?

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Metal View Post
    The Cherokee D of course!!!

    Actually like all of the estes stuff from before the 90's, wish I coulda got my hands on an interceptor (or any of those specials on up to the mid-power versions)

    Thanks again

    fm

    Did someone say Cherokee-D? One of my favorite models, and it was in part thanks to Jim that as I was considering potential L3 builds that he did a PSII version.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthr...r-rharshberger
    Rich

    NAR# 99154

    L3-4x upscale Estes Cherokee-D- AT M1297W 5/28/2016 http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthr...r-rharshberger

    TriCities Rocketeers NAR section# 736 http://www.tricitiesrocketeers.org/

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by K'Tesh View Post
    Thanks fm!




    Here's the file that fm has modified. No decals for it, and no tricks to fake them. John was even detailed enough to add weights to the various parts.

    Enjoy!
    Yeah it got pretty detailed...

    I'm starting to capture all of the kids builds as well as my own so I can figure just how accurate these sims are... good thing I get to test them all too!!!

    I'm slowly learning the decals thing, will post when I get it!

    fm

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by rharshberger View Post
    Did someone say Cherokee-D? One of my favorite models, and it was in part thanks to Jim that as I was considering potential L3 builds that he did a PSII version.



    http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthr...r-rharshberger
    Always glad to know I'm doing my part in enabling others... Nice Job on your Cherk, and Congrats on the L3!
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Metal View Post
    Yeah it got pretty detailed...

    I'm starting to capture all of the kids builds as well as my own so I can figure just how accurate these sims are... good thing I get to test them all too!!!

    I'm slowly learning the decals thing, will post when I get it!

    fm
    I was pretty surprised at how complicated this simple little rocket was... That locking fin unit took quite a bit of head scratching before I cracked it.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  17. #197
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    Here we go with "drop-in" Binder Design 4" AV/Dual Deploy Bays.


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    Creating an accurately shaped Eye bolt is beyond OR's abilities to sim for internal parts... But... Then again... I AM AN OPENROCKET NINJA!!! (I can sneak up on it)

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    Last edited by K'Tesh; 21st June 2016 at 01:26 PM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  18. #198
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    The drop in bays got me working on the Velociraptor again... Of course that led me to working on the prototype of the Velociraptor...












    This is as accurate as I can possibly make it. I can't tell you how hard it was figuring out how to get the baffle worked out so that "light" would shine in it, instead of it being cut off by the centering ring (and that is a trick I'm holding onto for the moment). The wing nuts and eye bolts were a cakewalk compared to that.

    Besides removing the CG/CP marks, the "too many parallel fins" caution, and the seam line from the body tube/boat tail joint (which showed up for some odd reason, despite the decals being "clamped"), this is pure openrocket. Basically, what you see is what you get (except for the baffle trick).

    [EDIT] For some reason, OpenRocket is overriding some of my settings on things like the diameter of the hole in the centering ring for the baffle. Despite my attempts at changing it (seems like I did it a dozen times), after saving the file, then closing it (and opening it again), and when I check it again, it's undone again). I have yet to figure out why this is happening. So, I had to change the CR to a bulkhead... and I apparently forgot to change that to plywood (or it was overriding me again). I've also modified the All Thread assemblies to include the nuts that would hold the sled in place.... (READ: If you downloaded the file, please toss it and download the corrected version).
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by K'Tesh; 19th July 2016 at 04:22 PM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  19. #199
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    K'Tesh - you really are the premier source of OR expertise! These really look amazing.
    NAR# 100059 Tripoli# 17072 KM4TZU
    Level 1 (Madcow Torrent / Cesaroni I236 - March 13 2016 2023ft - Dual Deployment)
    Level 2 (Madcow Level-2 "RumbleBee" / Cesaroni J250 Sparky - April 3, 2016 2096ft)
    Highest Flight: Level 2 "RunbleBee" 9490ft Max Vel. 1530ft/s Apr 9, 2017 LDRS36



  20. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcobbva View Post
    K'Tesh - you really are the premier source of OR expertise! These really look amazing.
    Thanks!

    After seeing your post, I realized I left the .ork file off the post. It's there now.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  21. #201
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    OpenRocket can be a bit problematic at times... As I've edited into some of the posts I have on the Velociraptor. OR kept overriding my settings for the forward baffle centering ring, making a large hole appear under the eye bolt (as well as changing components from plywood to cardboard).

    I ultimately changed that to be a bulkhead instead of a centering ring. I've also made further refinements to the AV bay and the Baffle.

    If you were one of the people who downloaded one of the earlier versions of the files, I'd suggest tossing them and downloading the latest updated version.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  22. #202
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    Please remember that my files are primarily intended to give an accurate appearance of the rocket, and not necessarily the flight performance. If you want to use them for flight projections, I highly recommend you look for "Phantom" body tubes, and "Air" fins and delete them if possible (However, some are needed for application of fins on transitions). These may have a dramatic effect on the simulated performance of the rocket (exspecially if you delete fins off of transitions).

    Spent a good amount of time today working on my sims of the original 4 Estes PSII Builder kits. I learned that a lot of you really liked them, with the most viewed files at over 100 downloads.

    After making the changes, I noticed that most apparently went up in their projected flight performance (one by more than double, and one by 1000'), one went down.

    The changes were the elimination of the "air fins" and internal tubes used to sim the decals, also some minor changes to reflect my changes in naming conventions.

    Here's an example of the old...



    And the new...



    The Ventris no longer needs a "Phantom" body tube for the LL's. I used internal body tubes that were radially offset to sim the appearance of them. However, internal tubes are not factored into aerodynamic calculations.

    You can view the Argent over in post #46, the Leviathan and the Stretch Leviathan in post #40, the Partizon in post #47,and the Ventris can be found in post #41
    Last edited by K'Tesh; 29th June 2016 at 01:04 PM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  23. #203
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    [EDIT]Some of you might feel that this is Verrrry interestink... (but others might feel it's not very funny)... I've finally managed to get the Citation Series Red Max (MK-2) finished (to the best of my ability).



    The Der Red Max was originally released as a Citation Series kit, and listed as the "Red Max" as seen in the scans on Ninfinger's site. It had a plastic nosecone, which would make it the PNC-60AH injection molded nosecone, and not the slightly longer blow molded version. I modeled the markings on the 1971 catalog. However, as I wasn't able to turn up the Citation's instructions, I used the later 0651's instructions found on JimZ's site for the sim. Lots of air fins needed for this sim (they're all attached to a single PBH so a simple deletion of that will make it suitable for flight sims).

    The Big Der Red Max (1977) came out later...



    Markings are based on the 1980 catalog, plans were found on JimZ's site. Again, lots of air fins, but they're all attached to a single PBH so a simple deletion of that will make it suitable for flight sims.

    Thanks to LW Bercini, and dhbarr for their help on these sims.

    The Pro Series II is still in the works, as is the reissue (651) and the Mini Max (2445). [/EDIT]

    Working on sims of the Estes PSII kits reminded me of one that has been unfinished for a while.


    I haven't found a scan of the MDRM's decals with a ruler for scale. I did however find a scan of the DRM's decals, and was able to guesstimate them (they're still a tad large)

    So, if someone wants this in a .ork form I'll need those decals.

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    Last edited by K'Tesh; 22nd December 2016 at 08:47 AM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  24. #204
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    Well I just happen to have a MDRM upstairs. What DPI / format do you prefer?

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  25. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhbarr View Post
    Well I just happen to have a MDRM upstairs. What DPI / format do you prefer?
    600DPI/.png files would be AWESOME!

    BTW... your scans are AWESOME!!! I probably will be able to use those... However, I have classes to prepare for today (including one that is today). So, I can't work on it right now.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  26. #206
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    600dpi PNG, will replace existing images soonish.

    Ever think about amending the start of this thread with a "how you can help" section; collect up what's useful as well as your most-wanted list? :-)

  27. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhbarr View Post
    Ever think about amending the start of this thread with a "how you can help" section; collect up what's useful as well as your most-wanted list? :-)
    Excellent suggestion!!! I've added a "How you can help" message to the OP.

    Most wanted... that will take some thinking about.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  28. #208
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    Today it's the Estes Mercury Redstone (1921)(Alan Shepard's Freedom 7)



    Kit No. 1921 was based on Centuri's KS-1 kit. The Centuri kit had a baffle included, and IMHO a far superior method of teathering the capsule so it wouldn't get damaged on landing. Personally I'm planning on modifying that method for my own builds so that the capsule and body tube will stay together, and the tower will still remain pointing up slightly.

    This sim has many cheats in it, such as phantom body tubes for the placement of the End Plates, and Rudders, and air fins for the roll pattern. As such, it doesn't sim very well for altitude. Think of it as a 3D decal guide. I worked extensively with Tonimus to get the capsule dimensions correct. As you can see, the tower assembly lacks the cross bracing that the actual rocket (and kit has). These details are beyond OR's ability to sim at this time.

    Launch of Mercury Redstone 3 (Alan Shepard)


    Photo credit: NASA

    Due to the differences in the decals between MR7 (AKA Mercury Redstone 3 or Freedom 7) and MR8 (AKA Mercury Redstone 4 or Liberty Bell 7), I'm uploading MR7 first. The markings on MR7 have been uploaded to JimZ's site, and my sim uses those. A few things to note about this version of the kit. The Estes face card has the markings wrong, and I noticed an error with the decal guide. The face card showed the UNITED STATES markings centered between fins. Photographs of the actual rocket shows that they were centered over the fins. More specifically, they were centered over the white top/black bottom and all black fin, and over the all white and black top/white bottom fin. Photos also show the roll pattern above the "U" has the right edge of black square centered over the "U". If that weren't enough, there appears to be a problem with size or spacing of the letters in the UNITED STATES markings. The actual vehicle's "U" appears to be much closer to the bottom of the roll pattern than the kit leads you to believe. The kit's decals seem to be scrunched down, as if Estes was trying to save money by reducing the length of the decal paper.


    Thanks to Bobby Hamill, I now have a sample of Estes' current release of Gus Grissom's Liberty Bell 7/Mercury Redstone 4. Estes previously released kit number 2167 with markings for Gus' rocket. That version featured plastic fins that were mounted TTW to the rocket, and had self adhesive (ugh... ) decals. The new version has a single length of body tube (19.5" long), and uses balsa and card stock for the fins (decals are waterslide). When I get done altering the decals for MR7, I'll upload that version here.

    This kit also has problems with the face card and other marking problems. The face card and instructions shows the UNITED STATES marking centered over the black top/white bottom and white top/black bottom fin. In my research, I can see from photos of the actual vehicle that the markings was centered over the white top/black bottom and all black fin. I also noted that the right edge of the black box (in the upper roll pattern) should be aligned with the center of the "U". Finally, the width of the lettering in the UNITED STATES marking appears to be too wide and too short. The top of the "U" appears to be closer than what the decals show, and I suspect the bottom of the lower "S" on the actual vehicle would be closer to the bottom of the rocket.

    I wasn't able to do the white decals that go on the capsule (too hard to extract from the image I was using for the decals). This sim went beyond what OR could simulate (at least for me) for flight characteristics. However, it should help with the roll patterns and the decal placements.

    Launch of Mercury Redstone 8 (Gus Grissom)

    Photo credit: NASA

    I'll add a shout out to Chris Michielssen for his blog posts on the Mercury Redstone. It was his comments that got me examining the markings closer.

    Special Thanks to Tonimus for his help with the measurements of the capsule.

    Last (but certainly not least) a VERY SPECIAL THANK YOU!!! goes out to Bobby Hamill for the kit I used to sample for this.

    Thanks Guys!
    Last edited by K'Tesh; 7th July 2016 at 06:22 AM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  29. #209
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    Today it's the Estes Pro Series II Sahara (9713)



    What you see is what you get... I only edited out the CG/CP markings.

    [EDIT] Just as I was closing the .pdf file for the Sahara's instructions (which are now available on Estes website), I spotted something that I missed when I first created this .ork file, back when the rocket first came out. One of the fins is black. I'd never noticed that before. Rather than delete the old, and replace it, I'm just going to add the black fin version.

    BTW, I've got the black band on the fins as 7/8" wide, and 3/4" up from the root edge. Visually, this looks like what Estes is showing, but there's no measurements for the drawings so it's a best guess.





    [EDIT] Today, I'm adding the Estes Panavia (9715) Pro Series II to this post. It's basically an Argent, with a Partizon's nosecone, and different paint. It's also very reminiscent of the Cherokee D, and would lend itself well for an upscale of the either the long or short version of that.



    I'll say that the design is stock. However, the markings are "Stock"(ish), as Estes (as of this time) hasn't posted a painting guide for this kit.
    Last edited by K'Tesh; 6th December 2016 at 08:05 AM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  30. #210
    Join Date
    15th October 2015
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    So it looks like the Sahara is a shortened Argent with Partizon fins? This one is growing on me.

    I bet it would fly great on an F15-4, low and slow long burn. Or stratospheric on a G125? Time to sim!

    And that Redstone... OpenRocket Ninja indeed. Great work as always.

    Chris M.
    NAR 101470, MAAC, CRC
    L1 - Optima 3" - CTI H133 - 1189ft. - Geneseo, NY, May 28, 2016
    My YouTube channel

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