Rocketry Display at Gun Shows?

I work at gun shows for a 2nd Amendment group I run and I had an idea the other day to do a Tripoli table for our local group.

Wondering if any of you have tried or seen a setup at a gun show and what your experiences were with it. People that love guns also love pyro and I would think a table at a gun show would be a great place to find new members or at least some people that might want to come out and watch.

Thoughts?

I think that is a splendid idea! Since the BATFE already hates both gun owners and the rocketry community, why not?

At the gun shows in the Phoenix area there isa rocket dealer. Quest Low power and Aerotec mid power kits and motors.

M

Hmmmmm. Combine :duck: with :bangbang: ? It could work....

Go for it, but just be ready to answer the questions like "Can you aim them at things and blow stuff up with them?"
My Gun Friends always ask me stupid crap like that.

Rocket Skeet Shooting, sounds good to me!
Buy a 25 box of the Make it Take it kits and that's a box of shot shells.

I would imagine lots of questions of the sort. Lol.

Knowing the crowd at the gun shows I figure there would be a lot of interest but who knows. Worth trying at least once I think.

I have a different view. I think it's really a bad idea. Our hobby enthusiasts and our associations work very hard to emphasis that hobby rockets are neither weapons nor fireworks, and being associated with a firearms or pyrotechnics organization weakens the separation.

Our hobby is self-regulated, with very few restrictive regulations in all 50 states, but there are many government regulations on the manufacturing, ownership, registration and use of guns. We don't need or want that to happen to our hobby.

The gun owners association, NRA, represents their 8,000,000 members and the 60,000,000+ gun owners in the US, more than 1/3 of the registered voters, so any overly severe firearms regulations will be opposed, and eventually rescinded. Our rocketry associations, NAR & TRA, represent ~7,000 rocket enthusiasts, and ~200,000 occasional annual hobby rocket fliers. We couldn't swing a town election, let alone a national issue.

I fully support our second amendment rights, but I don't think we should shoot ourselves in the foot by a public association with the firearms or pyrotechnics industry. We have nothing to gain and everything to loose.

Bob

After thinking about it some more, I have to agree with Bob that it is a bad Idea.
If you sell ten Rockets and Motors to ten different people at a Gun Show, the odds are pretty good that atleast half of them are likely to try to turn them into something they can "aim at things and blow stuff up with".
I can just see the News story now, about how Fuddly McFuddsterson obtained Rockets and Black Powder at a Gun Show, then blew himself up at home while trying to use them to make Fireworks.
It'll make everybody look bad.

I agree with bobkrech its a bad idea to mix in with guns.
A lot of people worked hard and long to separate these things, Maybe you could have a flyer or business cards to hand out, but to display HPR's would be toooo much.
There are too many people out there that really don't know what our hobby is about, most already think its fireworks, this would just throw gas on it.

I always say at our launches "we have to follow the NAR rules, we never know who our spectators are", could be FAA, HLS, any of the alphabet soup watching.

bobkrech said:

I fully support our second amendment rights, but I don't think we should shoot ourselves in the foot by a public association with the firearms or pyrotechnics industry. We have nothing to gain and everything to loose.

Bob

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I see what you did there. :lol:

Maybe I should have clarified that I am not talking about selling anything. Not selling rockets or motors. I am talking about recruiting more people into our industry. The only thing at the table would be display stuff and fliers to bring more people out to our events.

I understand why selling a bunch of stuff to people that have no idea what they are doing is a bad idea but that wasn't the premise of my original post.

With all due respect to the previous posters who think this is a bad idea, I must disagree. The objection to guns and rockets appears to be based upon the assumption that gun owners who attend gun shows have a disproportionate number of kooks and nuts within their ranks. In my experience as a gun owner, NRA Life Member and veteran, I think that the gun owners who attend gun shows are among the most law abiding citizens in this country. Further and regarding high power rocketry, the NAR and Tripoli organizations have a virtual monopoly on the acquisition of high power rocket motors and the flying of same. Just obtaining a high power motor through legitimate sources requires an anal inspection of biblical proportions and would make an evil doer take pause.

Adam Lanza was not an NRA member and did not get his guns at a gun show.
James Holmes was not an NRA member and did not get his guns at a gun show.
Harris and Klebold were not NRA members and did not get their guns at a gun show.
Nidal Malik Hasan was not an NRA member and did not get his guns at a gun show.

What these people were is insane lunatics bent on mayhem who gave off many warning signs long before their demonic acts. In any demographic slice there have been and always will be a certain percentage of kooks, nuts and killers lurking within their ranks. Finding and identifying such people is difficult, so the regulators and politicians target the tools of mayhem rather than the people who commit them. Keeping America safe by keeping hobby rocketry as a "secret society" does nothing to educate the general public about this wonderful hobby. Being uneducated promotes ignorance, suspicion and ultimately more regulation by knee jerk regulators.

As for there being eight million NRA members, one can only wish.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rifle_Association
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...6047c10-7164-11e2-ac36-3d8d9dcaa2e2_blog.html

There's no point displaying/selling HPR motors at a gun show. Just about nobody there will be certified.

Given how much Tannerite gets abused (just google it), I would hate for rocket motors to be abused in similar way.

taiwanluthiers said:

There's no point displaying/selling HPR motors at a gun show. Just about nobody there will be certified.

Given how much Tannerite gets abused (just google it), I would hate for rocket motors to be abused in similar way.

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Don't worry. The FBI never sleeps.
https://info.publicintelligence.net/FBI-ExplodingTargets.pdf

tmacklin said:

Dylan and Klebold were not NRA members and did not get their guns at a gun show.

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While off-topic I just wanted to make a small correction, TMacklin...
D&K actually purchased everything excepting the Tec-9 at the Tanner shows (thru a straw purchaser).
https://www.vpc.org/studies/wgun990420.htm
I do get the gist of your commentary, however.

On topic, I think having informational signage might attract interested members in the OP's area, and I see no harm in that.
When we launch here in CO, I *always* bring along some horizontal projectiles to play with after launching my vertical projectiles...

Thanks Jim Amos for the clarification. These criminals obtained their weapons illegally through a straw buyer from unlicensed sellers. But they were in no way members of the NRA. I know that none of the facts in this atrocity are any consolation to the families of the murder victims. These creeps should have been detected, just as the 9-11 terrorists should have been detected. The red flags were abundant but ignored.

I pretty much distrust anything coming out of the VPC. YMMV.

#NRALife #Veteran

Last month's gun show at CalExpo featured everything from actual firearms and ammo to clothing, trinkets, engraved lighters, honey, and jerky of various sorts. I was surprised there were no Estes rockets being sold.

Prohibition of anything never works. The whole idea of a gun or drug free world is a fantasy. Anytime you outlaw something you drive it underground. In the end violence increases and criminals profit from it (just like the Prohibition).

o1d_dude said:

I pretty much distrust anything coming out of the VPC. YMMV.

#NRALife #Veteran

Last month's gun show at CalExpo featured everything from actual firearms and ammo to clothing, trinkets, engraved lighters, honey, and jerky of various sorts. I was surprised there were no Estes rockets being sold.

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Yes. I should always consider the source first. Thanks old dude.

For once in my life I want someone who advocates "gun control" to explain exactly how taking guns away from law abiding citizens will do anything other than make it more convenient for criminals to practice their vile deeds? None of the victims in any of the incidents I cited were allowed to be armed and thereby able to minimize the carnage perpetrated upon them by these savages.

MClark said:

At the gun shows in the Phoenix area there isa rocket dealer. Quest Low power and Aerotec mid power kits and motors.

M

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...And he usually has Q2G2's for sale.

Their assumption/logic is that if guns were outlawed, criminals wouldn't have anywhere to go to get guns, or rather in a domestic dispute guns wouldn't be involved because it wouldn't be something that people have around. They cite countries with draconian gun laws to say they have few crimes...

I full agree with Bob!
We've spent decades distancing ourselves from the Fireworks (Pyro) industry. Mixing hobby rocketry with Gun shows is a Super bad Idea.

TheSamurai said:

I work at gun shows for a 2nd Amendment group I run and I had an idea the other day to do a Tripoli table for our local group.

Wondering if any of you have tried or seen a setup at a gun show and what your experiences were with it. People that love guns also love pyro and I would think a table at a gun show would be a great place to find new members or at least some people that might want to come out and watch.

Thoughts?

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I think that introducing rocketry to people in any venue is a good thing for this hobby. It is a way to dispel myths about the activity and educate people who might derive their only opinions from flawed sources in the so-called mainstream media. I've had plenty of ignorant questions directed to me at DARS launches by newcomers and I always try to educate such people. (I guess they think I look distinguished, no?) However, it might be best to take "baby steps" at first rather than making the introduction with high powered rockets coming out of the gate. It would be sort of like displaying a .50 caliber machine gun at a Boy Scout rocket launch, would it not?

As far as distancing hobby rocketry from pyrotechnics, that would be a bit like separating procreation with offspring if one carefully examines the history of black powder. I'll bet old Vern knows a thing or two about pyrotechnics. :surprised:

Here's a few of the red flags that were missed prior to the Columbine massacre. https://murderpedia.org/male.H/images/harris-eric/dylan-klebold.pdf Pages 35 and 36 are quite informative.

tmacklin said:

I think that introducing rocketry to people in any venue is a good thing for this hobby. It is a way to dispel myths about the activity and educate people who might derive their only opinions from flawed sources in the so-called mainstream media. I've had plenty of ignorant questions directed to me at DARS launches by newcomers and I always try to educate such people. (I guess they think I look distinguished, no?) However, it might be best to take "baby steps" at first rather than making the introduction with high powered rockets coming out of the gate. It would be sort of like displaying a .50 caliber machine gun at a Boy Scout rocket launch, would it not?

As far as distancing hobby rocketry from pyrotechnics, that would be a bit like separating procreation with offspring if one carefully examines the history of black powder. I'll bet old Vern knows a thing or two about pyrotechnics. :surprised:

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I think if we do it correctly we can get a lot of interested people in our hobby. Everyone thinks of gun owners and a bunch of hill bill red necks. There are a lot of really intelligent people at the shows who would love to be a part of what we are doing but they just don't know we exist.

I must say if we are trying to distance ourselves from the crazy Pyros and gun enthusiasts our local NAR club is doing a terrible job. Just about all the regulars are often out squeezing off clips or letting go on the 50 cal., others have their magazines and explosive permits and have to work out conflicts with scheduling between rocket and pyro club activities. Was it not a pryo manufacturer here in the local area that had a big part in starting this hobby in the late 50's? With all the research guys at the local Tripoli launch it isn't much better. I get so scared when they tell me of all the proposed regulatory poop that is headed our way. It makes me think we should join up with the power of the NRA black powder shootin' boys. Otherwise the black SUVs are coming for me, a no good bleeding heart, Volvo Socialist Liberal but with a ROCKET in hand! I get so scared I just want to safely bury my head in the sand and constantly count down 5-4-3-2-1-START! I hope the pyro and gun guys will save me from my horrible model rocketry vice. What else fun is there to do? RC aircraft? No they are going after them too. No rockets or their silly clubs at air shows. Didn't we win that case a few years back and now we are safe? :confused2: Can we show ourselves anywhere in public without great shame?:sad:

TheSamurai said:

I think if we do it correctly we can get a lot of interested people in our hobby. Everyone thinks of gun owners and a bunch of hill bill red necks. There are a lot of really intelligent people at the shows who would love to be a part of what we are doing but they just don't know we exist.

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That is without a doubt the most frequent statement that I've heard voiced by my non-rocketeering friends, followed by the "is that legal" question. If we rocketeers don't toot our own horns, others will do it for us.

Daddyisabar said:

I must say if we are trying to distance ourselves from the crazy Pyros and gun enthusiasts our local NAR club is doing a terrible job. Just about all the regulars are often out squeezing off clips or letting go on the 50 cal., others have their magazines and explosive permits and have to work out conflicts with scheduling between rocket and pyro club activities. Was it not a pryo manufacturer here in the local area that had a big part in starting this hobby in the late 50's? With all the research guys at the local Tripoli launch it isn't much better. I get so scared when they tell me of all the proposed regulatory poop that is headed our way. It makes me think we should join up with the power of the NRA black powder shootin' boys. Otherwise the black SUVs are coming for me, a no good bleeding heart, Volvo Socialist Liberal but with a ROCKET in hand! I get so scared I just want to safely bury my head in the sand and constantly count down 5-4-3-2-1-START! I hope the pyro and gun guys will save me from my horrible model rocketry vice. What else fun is there to do? RC aircraft? No they are going after them too. No rockets or their silly clubs at air shows. Didn't we win that case a few years back and now we are safe? :confused2: Can we show ourselves anywhere in public without great shame?:sad:

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I'll make you a deal. I'll sign up for the NAR if you'll sign up for the NRA. If nothing else, it'll confuse the hell out of people! :rofl:

tmacklin said:

I'll make you a deal. I'll sign up for the NAR if you'll sign up for the NRA. If nothing else, it'll confuse the hell out of people! :rofl:

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That what is great about rocketry, you have such "strange bedfellows." Issue specific special interest politics can be the same way. Looks like NAR and NRA will converge on these issues, as will other hobbies. Then I can go up to the liberals in the club and do my best Chuck Heston impression "You will have to pull my rocket from my cold, dead hands!" "Let my people go!" "Get your hands off me you darn, dirty ape!" We have much more in common than we think. Working together we are stronger than working apart. Promote rocketry with your friends, and even some of your enemies will join in because they are so dern bored being A holes they need to launch to relieve stress. Set up a rocket table wherever you can. Fear and prejudice are the mind killers!