Estes Canadian Arrow vs Estes V2

I'm looking at the kits. I have the Canadian Arrow. It looks exactly like the parts to the V2. Kit wise, is there any difference?

The only differences, it seems, are the decals, and the longer body tube in the Canadian Arrow. Also, the Canadian Arrow's motor mount only accepts D-sized 24mm motors. The most recent Estes V-2 accepts longer E motors.

I'm working on a Canadian Arrow but planning to finish it as a Soviet R-2 / SS-2 (Improved V-2.) I've clipped the fins but I have questions about how stable it will be without additional noseweight. Does anybody have experience flying V-2's with scale fins?

Only accepts Ds? Did you see how long that MMT is? A little push on the engine block, a 24mm retainer, a little APCP and viola! A true MPR missile. Got an E30 waiting in the wings for that bad boy.

Kruegon said:

Only accepts Ds? Did you see how long that MMT is? A little push on the engine block, a 24mm retainer, a little APCP and viola! A true MPR missile. Got an E30 waiting in the wings for that bad boy.

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Of course the Canadian Arrow will take an Aerotech 24mm E motor in place of an Estes D; you just can't fly an Estes E with the stock motor hook. Of course, an Aerotech E is going to give you almost three times the impulse of the Estes E!

brewster_rockit said:

Of course the Canadian Arrow will take an Aerotech 24mm E motor in place of an Estes D; you just can't fly an Estes E with the stock motor hook. Of course, an Aerotech E is going to give you almost three times the impulse of the Estes E!

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Did you mean to say Estes "D"? The maximum total impulse for an E is 40.0 Newton-Seconds, and the Aerotech engines are right about there. The Estes E9 & E12 motors are between 27-29 Newton-Seconds (depending on source).

You've already realized that the Canadian Arrow does not have scale V-2 fins, if you also cut the BT to scale length, you'll definitely need nose-weight. I'll check mine to see how much I put in there, it flies fine on Aerotech E reloads, though I've never tried an Estes E.

dpower said:

You've already realized that the Canadian Arrow does not have scale V-2 fins, if you also cut the BT to scale length, you'll definitely need nose-weight. I'll check mine to see how much I put in there, it flies fine on Aerotech E reloads, though I've never tried an Estes E.

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The nose cone, with nose weight, and paint, is 2.8 oz.

Looks like I added 1.0 oz of nose weight:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?105517-White-Sands-V-2-3

brewster_rockit said:

The only differences, it seems, are the decals, and the longer body tube in the Canadian Arrow. Also, the Canadian Arrow's motor mount only accepts D-sized 24mm motors. The most recent Estes V-2 accepts longer E motors.

I'm working on a Canadian Arrow but planning to finish it as a Soviet R-2 / SS-2 (Improved V-2.) I've clipped the fins but I have questions about how stable it will be without additional noseweight. Does anybody have experience flying V-2's with scale fins?

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I've heard that they are Identical length BT.????

Only the 24mm Aerotech RMS motors are "right about there" (close to or at 40 N-s total impulse). The single use 24mm Aerotech E motors have lowered total impulse since the 2007 redesign. most motor databases for simulation software have the pre-2007 values. This has confused and affected many TARC teams who are working without a competent mentor.

Motor type , Weight of motor , Actual Average Thrust , Total impulse
E20W (E15) , 49g , 22N , 35 N-s
E30T , 47g , 33N , 33.56 N-s
F32T , 64g , 34N , 56.9 N-s

RMS E18W , 59g , 17N , 36.5 N-s ,
RMS F24W , 62.9g , 22.2N , 50 N-s
RMS E28T , 54.4g , 32.5N , 39.7 N-s
RMS F39T , 60g , 37.3N , 49.66 N-s

Compare to values for Estes 24mm and 29 mm motors on the NAR Standards & Testing website where actual real values are posted.

One communication problem on these forums is that people insist on using the single word "Impulse" for different things. If they simply used "Average Thrust" and "Total Impulse" we would know what they were saying and they would know what they were typing.

dpower said:

Did you mean to say Estes "D"? The maximum total impulse for an E is 40.0 Newton-Seconds, and the Aerotech engines are right about there. The Estes E9 & E12 motors are between 27-29 Newton-Seconds (depending on source).

You've already realized that the Canadian Arrow does not have scale V-2 fins, if you also cut the BT to scale length, you'll definitely need nose-weight. I'll check mine to see how much I put in there, it flies fine on Aerotech E reloads, though I've never tried an Estes E.

Click to expand...

dpower said:

Did you mean to say Estes "D"? The maximum total impulse for an E is 40.0 Newton-Seconds, and the Aerotech engines are right about there. The Estes E9 & E12 motors are between 27-29 Newton-Seconds (depending on source).

You've already realized that the Canadian Arrow does not have scale V-2 fins, if you also cut the BT to scale length, you'll definitely need nose-weight. I'll check mine to see how much I put in there, it flies fine on Aerotech E reloads, though I've never tried an Estes E.

Click to expand...

I stand corrected on Aerotech "E" impulse, having missed out on the 2007 redesign which reduced the total impulse.

My plan is to fly my Canadian Arrow with the smaller "scale fins" and the original body tube (NOT cut to V-2 length.) Scale fins on a V-2 require a considerable amount of nose weight for stable flight, but the longer body tube should somewhat diminish the ballast weight to an extent. I definitely plan to swing-test my model and simulate it in Open Rocket prior to first flight, but it'd still be good to hear from anybody who might have tried this mod in the past. My expectation is that ballasting will still be necessary.

OpenRocket was an issue for me. It will not allow fins to be attached to the tail cone. I had to get RockSim to do that.