Opinions about Jolly Logic Altimeter Three

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JohnCoker said:
...

My opinion on the A3 is that I'm still waiting for Jolly Logic to add deployment. Electronics without deployment is useless to me, especially at the $100 price point. A better option is the Missile Works line with dual deployment starting at $50.
Click to expand...

I see the Jolly Logic products filling the market need for flyers who want a "ride along" system to report flight attributes without going the extended route of electronic deployment. I have a handful of DD systems and use my JL for my rockets with motor eject. I will likely be buying an A3 in the next couple of months for the summer/fall flying season.
 
JohnCoker said:
My opinion on the A3 is that I'm still waiting for Jolly Logic to add deployment. Electronics without deployment is useless to me, especially at the $100 price point. A better option is the Missile Works line with dual deployment starting at $50.
Click to expand...

The MW line might be a better option if ALL of your rockets have a bay for an altimeter with no housing. Having the option of a data logging altimeter that I can throw in any rocket I'm willing to drill vent holes in is pretty sweet.
 
AlfaBrewer said:
Having the option of a data logging altimeter that I can throw in any rocket I'm willing to drill vent holes in is pretty sweet.
Click to expand...
Good point, being sealed is an excellent innovation. Now if deployment were added, you could have accurate recovery without an electronics bay.
 
woferry said:
You rock, thanks! I'll send in my A2 after this weekend's launch (still want to fly both the A2 and A3 tomorrow). Any suggestions on the best way to ship it? Just USPS in a bubble mailer, or...?
Click to expand...

Well, you don't have to worry about getting my A2 back. :p

Did two flights at TCC yesterday. The first one was an AT I245G where the deployment was a few seconds late, leading to a 2.5" zipper on the rocket and both the A2 and A3 separated from the rocket in the violent deployment, so they're out in the field somewhere. I went to BAR's trailer and picked up another A2 (happened to be 4.0 FW) and A3, the A2 was at 60% battery and the A3 100%, so I threw them in my other rocket for it's L2 cert flight. Well, the AT J350W motor eject never fired (all the BP was still in the well), so it lawn-darted from ~3000' and destroyed the rocket and all of the electronics inside (Eggfinder, brand-new A2, brand-new A3, Stratologger CF, EasyMini and a Mobius camera). So no new A3 data to report, no problem setting each A3 to record mode at the start of the flight, but the first A3 was never recovered and the second one is crushed. All in all a pretty terrible day. :cry:
 
My son and I flew the A3 with the new software/firmware combo at Moffett field on Saturday. I flew it once in my Crayon and Squiddo flew the A3 twice his SFR-TV2 rocket. (The second airframe he built as a backup for last year's science fair project.) All of the issues I had connecting (and reconnecting) the A3 to my phone after a flight have been resolved. The manual connection process was easy to accomplish.

On one of Squiddo's flights, the download didn't finish correctly - we fixed that by moving the A3 out of range, forcing a disconnect and then reconnecting. The data download worked the second time.

I shared the flights via email and on my twitter stream: https://twitter.com/hashtag/altimeterdata?src=hash

Some thoughts:
A manual "disconnect" UI element might be nice in the app.
Access to the phone camera/photo library to attach a photo to the flight reports would be a neat addition.
A2 style flight stats available in the Phone UI post flight would also be nice to have. (This is coming, IIRC)
 
dshmel said:
John, I had my Gen2 A2 along for the ride on a lawn dart 2 weeks ago. The case is cracked, but intact, and the altimeter appears to be working okay. I would like to send it in for the firmware upgrade. When doing the upgrade will you be able to test it to see if it is fully functional??
Click to expand...

Sure, I'll give it a good going over. We'll get you up and running good as new. Maybe it magically gets a new case, who knows.

By the way, the 4.0 firmware has been testing really well. Robert (above) did side-by-sides this past weekend, with 3.9 firmware having the ejection issue, but 4.0 (verified by AltimeterThree) getting it right.
 
rbelknap said:
Some thoughts:
A manual "disconnect" UI element might be nice in the app.
Click to expand...
On the settings page, there's a Disconnect button. The only limitation in the current version is that you can't use it while you are recording. In that case, you just have just turn Bluetooth off and on again to drop the connection. I may modify this to be more flexible.

Access to the phone camera/photo library to attach a photo to the flight reports would be a neat addition.
Click to expand...
Definitely in the product plan. My vision is that the product automagically creates "flight stories" with your pictures and videos artfully presented without editing.

A2 style flight stats available in the Phone UI post flight would also be nice to have. (This is coming, IIRC)
Click to expand...
Yes!
 
woferry said:
All in all a pretty terrible day. :cry:
Click to expand...

That's kind of heartbreaking...

The first time I flight tested AltimeterTwo, I loaded up a clear payload bay with about 6 of them, along with a Raven 2 and couple more A2s and A1s with the chute. The LCO (for the first time) announced that Jolly Logic was testing the upcoming AltimeterTwo. So more people than usually perked up and paid attention.

The flight lawn darted within 30 feet of the pad. Total loss.

The LCO said something like, "Well, back to the drawing board on that one." Or something to that effect. Costly and embarrassing!

So I know your pain.
 
John Beans said:
On the settings page, there's a Disconnect button. The only limitation in the current version is that you can't use it while you are recording. In that case, you just have just turn Bluetooth off and on again to drop the connection. I may modify this to be more flexible.
Click to expand...

Ah, good to know - I must have missed it. I don't think I opened the settings page at that point.


Definitely in the product plan. My vision is that the product automagically creates "flight stories" with your pictures and videos artfully presented without editing.
Click to expand...

I really like that idea. :)
 
Is there a screen for the Altimeter Three data that presents Altimeter Two data in simple text format?

Max V
Motor burn time
Ejection altitude
Apogee
Coast to apogee
Descent rate
Peak & average acceleration
Apogee to ejection time
Total flight duration

Also, I don't see any mention of a velocity over time graphical product from Altimeter Three.
 
Winston said:
Is there a screen for the Altimeter Three data that presents Altimeter Two data in simple text format?
Click to expand...

That will appear in the app in an upcoming update on the Flight Info page. We'd also like to expand it in some nice ways in the future, too, with things like multi-stage analysis (think: coast times), and if anyone has things they'd like added we'd consider those, too.
 
FYI, after losing two A3's my previous launch (as detailed above) I purchased another one at my next launch Saturday and got to fly it once. Yet another motor-eject failure (this one 8 seconds early, breaking the airframe in half), but I attached the new A2 & A3 using a keychain ring rather than a zip-tie, and they didn't separate themselves from the rocket this time (well, at least the part of the rocket that didn't separate from itself). The A3 worked flawlessly, no trouble connecting to record, no trouble connecting at the end to stop recording, and the download started immediately afterwards and transferred the flight data in a few seconds. So I can finally confirm that things are much more reliable now, thanks for the improvements!!
 
That looks really impressive. I have to to say however I will never buy one. Not because I wouldn't like one but because I cannot afford to lose £100 (UK price) along with the cost of the rocket. That is, if my rocket refuses to behave in accordance with my design or worse, if it decides to spend some time hanging from the top branch of a 90' high tree.

If I manage to gain my L1 in the next couple of months my next project (and investment) will be electronics and duel deployment. I can also buy 2-4 motors for the same price.

Great product. I guess I'm just not in the target market for it.

SO.
 
John Beans said:
That will appear in the app in an upcoming update on the Flight Info page. We'd also like to expand it in some nice ways in the future, too, with things like multi-stage analysis (think: coast times), and if anyone has things they'd like added we'd consider those, too.
Click to expand...
Velocity over time graph?
 
I can't say enough good about my Altimeter 3, and Jolly Logic!

I had an A2 that the battery died on (I flew that thing a few dozen times last year). I emailed John to see if it was my battery, and he kindly said send it to him and he'd replace it. At the same time, I bought an Atltimeter 3. The A3 got here, but my A2 got lost in the land of the USPS. :facepalm:

I love that I have instant access to my flight data. Also, being able to send all of that information via email really is convenient.

The comments of using a larger (less expensive) altimeter is kind of comparing apples to oranges. With a DD Altimeter, you need to supply the battery, a sled, and wiring. The costs, weight, and size quickly add up. Also, I threw my Altimeter 2 into my small Estes rockets and it worked great! I would not have been able to put a DD altimeter into an Amazon or a Crossfire. The Altimeter 2 and 3 are completely self-contained units that are used for data logging.

The Altimeter 2 and 3 are both great tools for data collection and analysis, especially the 3 which offers the data graph. I didn't have any problem with the "code" that the A2 used in the display either. After a few uses, you know what it means when you see Burn, C2A, etc, etc...
 
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woferry said:
Well, you don't have to worry about getting my A2 back. :p

Did two flights at TCC yesterday. The first one was an AT I245G where the deployment was a few seconds late, leading to a 2.5" zipper on the rocket and both the A2 and A3 separated from the rocket in the violent deployment, so they're out in the field somewhere. I went to BAR's trailer and picked up another A2 (happened to be 4.0 FW) and A3, the A2 was at 60% battery and the A3 100%, so I threw them in my other rocket for it's L2 cert flight. Well, the AT J350W motor eject never fired (all the BP was still in the well), so it lawn-darted from ~3000' and destroyed the rocket and all of the electronics inside (Eggfinder, brand-new A2, brand-new A3, Stratologger CF, EasyMini and a Mobius camera). So no new A3 data to report, no problem setting each A3 to record mode at the start of the flight, but the first A3 was never recovered and the second one is crushed. All in all a pretty terrible day. :cry:
Click to expand...

Shoot, Probably grease plugged the well hole. Been there, done that on the 15th flight of my L2 rocket at MWP 9. A 4 inch cardboard tubed job I just had to shove a J350M motor ejection into it and it flew just fine with a Covert parachute (remember him?).
Rocket launched, came in ballistic and the recovery laundry fit so loosely that it slid down as the rocket was coming in and pushed the nosecone off. It was still a few hundred feet in the air, the cord zippered the tube and the chute exploded. The tube went from nose first to sideways and landed flat in the dirt. My eyes lit up when the fincan was perfectly fine and the zipper left enough room for a coupler repair. I had a 4 inch ebay lying around so I turned it into a DD adding an upper tube and it has 6 more flights on it. Not bad for an 8 year old cardboard rocket. Kurt
 
ksaves2 said:
Shoot, Probably grease plugged the well hole.
Click to expand...

Trying not to derail this one, as I had remarked on a different thread, I certainly can't say it's impossible (I was positive then but I'll admit I have no definitive proof, only the procedure I followed), but I can say that I was aware of this being a possible failure mechanism, and my assembly procedure takes every step possible to avoid this I think. The AT instructions suggest starting out greasing the rings/threads, and to grease the inside of the delay well while avoiding getting any grease on the top. I modify this order to not grease the rings/threads until I'm installing them (so that my fingers are ungreased while doing the earlier bits like placing the top washer in the delay well), and I don't grease the inside of the well but instead grease the outside of the insulator. So the well should have had no chance of seeing any grease before I install the greased insulator/washer combination (and I take care to ensure the top of the delay grain doesn't have any grease on it), so there really shouldn't have been any grease near the well hole. But who knows. Motor eject just clearly isn't for me, I had another mishap this past weekend with a very early motor eject that destroyed my other rocket, so my fleet is down to 0 right now. At least all of the electronics survived this time, I used a keychain ring to tether the A2 & A3 to my rocket rather than a zip tie, and will continue to do this for now on.
 
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woferry said:
Trying not to derail this one, as I had remarked on a different thread, I certainly can't say it's impossible (I was positive then but I'll admit I have no definitive proof, only the procedure I followed), but I can say that I was aware of this being a possible failure mechanism, and my assembly procedure takes every step possible to avoid this I think. The AT instructions suggest starting out greasing the rings/threads, and to grease the inside of the delay well while avoiding getting any grease on the top. I modify this order to not grease the rings/threads until I'm installing them (so that my fingers are ungreased while doing the earlier bits like placing the top washer in the delay well), and I don't grease the inside of the well but instead grease the outside of the insulator. So the well should have had no chance of seeing any grease before I install the greased insulator/washer combination (and I take care to ensure the top of the delay grain doesn't have any grease on it), so there really shouldn't have been any grease near the well hole. But who knows. Motor eject just clearly isn't for me, I had another mishap this past weekend with a very early motor eject that destroyed my other rocket, so my fleet is down to 0 right now. At least all of the electronics survived this time, I used a keychain ring to tether the A2 & A3 to my rocket rather than a zip tie, and will continue to do this for now on.
Click to expand...

With motor ejection, stray grease plugging is about the only reason I can see for the failure. Yeah I know you were real careful, so was I.
If your delay grain burned, something prevented the "fire" from getting through the hole. The only other issue I could think of is some sort of intrinsic failure of that particular delay grain. Hard to prove if it burned up.:wink:

As an aside, I had a delay grain fail to burn on a launch one time but it was no big deal because rocket used electronics that successfully deployed everything. When I took the motor apart for cleaning, I noticed the delay hadn't burned. (No wonder I didn't see any smoke)
It looked a little "oily" on the surface and again, I think the grease got to it. After both those episodes, I'm very careful with the O ring grease!! Kurt
 
John Beans said:
Sure, I'll give it a good going over. We'll get you up and running good as new. Maybe it magically gets a new case, who knows.

By the way, the 4.0 firmware has been testing really well. Robert (above) did side-by-sides this past weekend, with 3.9 firmware having the ejection issue, but 4.0 (verified by AltimeterThree) getting it right.
Click to expand...

Shout out to John for excellent customer service!!! I received my firmware updated AltimeterTwo yesterday. John replaced the cracked (but still intact) case and it looks new. I am now ready for AirFest sporting all three versions of Jolly Logic's Altimeter line. It should be as easy as One, Two, Three !!
 

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