a couple of questions to help my son's and I

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sandeja1

sandeja1

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Have a couple (at the moment) of quick questions about teaching a younger generation (ages 7 and 11) how to build rockets please:

Do you start teaching how to build rockets using CWF to fill the balsa fins and body spirals or just focus on getting it to the pad to launch first and then teach the finer arts later?

When "papering" fins, do you put an "airfoil" in them first and then paper them or just seal the paper with thin CA glue and then knock down the "fuzzies" by sanding?

I am sure there as answer somewhere here on the forum but haven't found it yet.

Thanks for the advice and assistance!
 
Hey sandeja1,

Were it me, I would focus on the big picture first...

Most kids in that age range have a limited attention span...

They will quickly loose interest filling spirals and balsa grains...

Get them hooked on the fun first, then teach the finer points of the hobby at a later time...

Welcome to the party...
 
Paper the fins... Here's my tutorial...

When working with the thin CA glue... Use a sharpie to color the base of the nozzle. This allows you to recognize it from thicker CA glues, and will help you not glue your (or little one's fingers) to various objects.
 
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KidRockET said:
Hey sandeja1,

Were it me, I would focus on the big picture first...

Most kids in that age range have a limited attention span...

They will quickly loose interest filling spirals and balsa grains...

Get them hooked on the fun first, then teach the finer points of the hobby at a later time...

Welcome to the party...
Click to expand...

Thanks! That is what I thought too. I will sand the CWF myself and let them finish the rest. Will be shopping for paint soon and they have already they each want 12 colors https://www.rocketryforum.com/image...ww.rocketryforum.com/images/smilies/yikes.gif on their rockets. Will be interesting to see what we wind up with at the end.
 
I would start with the basics, get the fins on straight and that they don't fall off if you look at them too hard...that sort of thing. one can (usually) learn additional refinements as interest grows.
airfoils?:) mine are lucky to get the edges rounded :). but really at the speeds that low power rockets attain it is hard to tell any difference between squared edges and airfoils, in flight, square/rounded edge fins are a bit more resistant to landing dings.
Rex
 
Rex R said:
I would start with the basics, get the fins on straight and that they don't fall off if you look at them too hard...that sort of thing. one can (usually) learn additional refinements as interest grows.
airfoils?:) mine are lucky to get the edges rounded :). but really at the speeds that low power rockets attain it is hard to tell any difference between squared edges and airfoils, in flight, square/rounded edge fins are a bit more resistant to landing dings.
Rex
Click to expand...


Go to Payloadbay's tools section, and you download some fin alignment guides. I take the printout and using a glue stick (e.g. Elmers or Avery's permanent glue sticks) apply it to some foam core ($1 at dollar tree). Cut it out, and you've got a reusable guide for making your fins perfectly aligned. Remember to cut small notches at the body tube/fin joint to allow for glue. Otherwise, you may end up gluing your guide to the rocket too (don't ask how I know).

Here's one of those guides in use (but upside down, so it's not as pretty as it could be).



Estes' Fin Marking Guide is another great tool... I don't use the plastic angle anymore (since my L1 rocket got cockeyed fins) (I then switched to the tool mentioned before). However the round guides are invaluable for the sizes it has (Sorry, no BT-56, no BT-70, and no Pro Series II body tube guides).

HTH
Jim
 
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I've done rocket clubs after school and summer programs. Keep it fun and build the challenge slowly. The important thing is to get'm flying, then you can work on things like craftsmanship and complexity after they are hooked.


Have fun,

Duane
 
get the birds up and up and flying, they'll be doing good to get them put together. Now me, at that age I was building balsa and tissue planes but most kids, especially nowadays, don't have the patience for the details like fillets and paint. And for your other question on paper covering fins, I never have and have built many rockets. I load the fins down with paint, sand, paint till I'm cool with how they look.
 
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For ages 7 & 11, buy an E2X kit and an Alpha 3. They can be built in a quick enough time to keep their attention (one night) and then launch the next day. They will be hooked.

My son who was I think 9 at the time (3 years ago) got an Alpha 3. I left him to his own devices and he took 2 nights to assemble it 75%. He then proceeded to leave the build on the table for a couple of days. I told him I needed to clean up and if he did not finish I was going to put it back in the package and he could take it to his room and we would not launch. He finally finished it that night (didn't take a lot of prodding, but with TV, video games, sports, and friends, the rocket was in heavy competition for his attention)...after the launch the next morning he bugged the CRAP out of me ALL DAY LONG until I finally relented at 6pm and drove across town to Hobby Lobby to buy more motors and another rocket. That rocket came out of the package as soon as we got home and got completed before bedtime!!!

Like others have said, get 'em hooked first, but there's no reason that they can't do a start to finish build with and E2X or simple Level 1 plastic fin-can build.

You MUST update us when this all occurs!
 
455 Buick said:
For ages 7 & 11, buy an E2X kit and an Alpha 3. They can be built in a quick enough time to keep their attention (one night) and then launch the next day. They will be hooked.

My son who was I think 9 at the time (3 years ago) got an Alpha 3. I left him to his own devices and he took 2 nights to assemble it 75%. He then proceeded to leave the build on the table for a couple of days. I told him I needed to clean up and if he did not finish I was going to put it back in the package and he could take it to his room and we would not launch. He finally finished it that night (didn't take a lot of prodding, but with TV, video games, sports, and friends, the rocket was in heavy competition for his attention)...after the launch the next morning he bugged the CRAP out of me ALL DAY LONG until I finally relented at 6pm and drove across town to Hobby Lobby to buy more motors and another rocket. That rocket came out of the package as soon as we got home and got completed before bedtime!!!

Like others have said, get 'em hooked first, but there's no reason that they can't do a start to finish build with and E2X or simple Level 1 plastic fin-can build.

You MUST update us when this all occurs!
Click to expand...

+1 to getting them hooked, easy to assemble and quick to the launch, watching it fly does the rest.

My 5 year old daughter is pretty hooked so far, she's gonna be disappointed that we have to miss this weekends launch:(
 
Whatever it takes to get them flying. RTF, ARTF great.
As they take interest in building, start with simple kits and don't worry about spirals and grains, just get fins on straight and launch lug on firmly.
As they take interest in appearance of rocket, consider papering (easier) and then grain filling.
When they take an interest in performance, THEN consider airfoiling. IMO until you are considering competition airfoiling fins is much more trouble than it is worth. Also not sure if there is much point in airfoiling AND papering. For sport models rounding or even flat blocking is great. In fact, finely air foiled fins don't survive landings all that well, they are pretty delicate.
Look into Edmond's for some easy gliders as a way of keeping things interesting
straight trails!
 
I have a hand full of nephews and a niece in that age range. They all love to fly rockets with me.

As others have said, the key is to keep them interested! I started off with the oldest at 7 years old (now 10). At first I did all the building, he helped at the launching as he learned. Later, I had him help with picking out kits, getting parts ready and some gluing. One thing kids love is decorating a rocket. Markers and stickers work great. The guys at the club we launch with (SCRA NAR#430) are super supportive with the little ones when they bring up their crazy doodled rockets at check in. Rocket folks are the greatest! My now 10 year old nephew wants a bigger MPR/HPR. I told him that the next time we go out to the bigger club launch, he can puck out a big rocket from the on-site vendor.

Jerome :)
 
As many have suggested most important at those ages is to get the birds in the air. RTF and ARTF models are outstanding for first models.
Once they have had a few flights and are excited about building their own models then a Starter model Like the Alpha-III with a plastic fin can can be a very good "technique" teaching tool.

One of the most important leasons you can give your kids is teaching them to following the instructions. The most important Technique for Beginning Rocketeers: is teaching them the double Glue Joint method for using Elmers White or Yellow glues for most Low Power construction applications.
While this method is not directly shown in most model instructions, it is covered in G. Harry Stines "HandBook of Model Rocketry".

To start apply a line of glue covering the entire part to be jointed with white or yellow glue. Not alot just enough to be worked into the grain or cardboard parts. Both sides to be joined. ie if a fin to body joint: apply to the root edge of the fin then press onto the body tube alignment line and immediately remove and set aside to dry. If an engine block or centering ring apply glue with the finger completely around the part and set aside to dry. when these parts are try to the touch apply a second light coating of the same glue to the root edge and with the finger to then inside of the body tube approximately where the engine block or centering ring will be set. apply the fin to the body tube or slide the motor mount into the body tube glue in one swift forward slightly twisting motion. Note that the second application of glue re-activates the first and will sieze pretty quickly. Once this joint has as a few minutes to dry the joint will be stronger then both materials being joined. Further this method will out last CA application by decades. White or Yellow glues do tend to shrink a bit during drying but should not be a major factor in finsihing. Double glue joint construction will add a bit less mass to the model then using epoxy for motor mount fastening but as I mentioned must be done in a slightly twisting forward non-stop motion do avoid siezing in the wrong location.
It is without doubt the most important construction method to teach Brand New Rocketeers Hands down second only to the model rocket safety code;)
Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
BABAR said:
Whatever it takes to get them flying. RTF, ARTF great.
As they take interest in building, start with simple kits and don't worry about spirals and grains, just get fins on straight and launch lug on firmly.
As they take interest in appearance of rocket, consider papering (easier) and then grain filling.
When they take an interest in performance, THEN consider airfoiling. IMO until you are considering competition airfoiling fins is much more trouble than it is worth. Also not sure if there is much point in airfoiling AND papering. For sport models rounding or even flat blocking is great. In fact, finely air foiled fins don't survive landings all that well, they are pretty delicate.
Look into Edmond's for some easy gliders as a way of keeping things interesting
straight trails!
Click to expand...

Sorry for the delay in response and THANKS for the info! Will look into the Edmonds also, we all love planes!
 
Micromeister said:
As many have suggested most important at those ages is to get the birds in the air. RTF and ARTF models are outstanding for first models.
Once they have had a few flights and are excited about building their own models then a Starter model Like the Alpha-III with a plastic fin can can be a very good "technique" teaching tool.

One of the most important leasons you can give your kids is teaching them to following the instructions. The most important Technique for Beginning Rocketeers: is teaching them the double Glue Joint method for using Elmers White or Yellow glues for most Low Power construction applications.
While this method is not directly shown in most model instructions, it is covered in G. Harry Stines "HandBook of Model Rocketry".

To start apply a line of glue covering the entire part to be jointed with white or yellow glue. Not alot just enough to be worked into the grain or cardboard parts. Both sides to be joined. ie if a fin to body joint: apply to the root edge of the fin then press onto the body tube alignment line and immediately remove and set aside to dry. If an engine block or centering ring apply glue with the finger completely around the part and set aside to dry. when these parts are try to the touch apply a second light coating of the same glue to the root edge and with the finger to then inside of the body tube approximately where the engine block or centering ring will be set. apply the fin to the body tube or slide the motor mount into the body tube glue in one swift forward slightly twisting motion. Note that the second application of glue re-activates the first and will sieze pretty quickly. Once this joint has as a few minutes to dry the joint will be stronger then both materials being joined. Further this method will out last CA application by decades. White or Yellow glues do tend to shrink a bit during drying but should not be a major factor in finsihing. Double glue joint construction will add a bit less mass to the model then using epoxy for motor mount fastening but as I mentioned must be done in a slightly twisting forward non-stop motion do avoid siezing in the wrong location.
It is without doubt the most important construction method to teach Brand New Rocketeers Hands down second only to the model rocket safety code;)
Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice! My wife got the "Handbook of Model Rocketry" for me for Christmas, haven't had a chance to really sit down and read it yet though.
 
I, on the other hand, when I was eleven, took my time building and finishing my first Alpha, and it looked mostly ok, with only shallow grain marks and a couple of glue and paint runs. I didn't have such niceties as CWF, though I tried spackling compound on one fin, Pactra Balsa Fillercoat on another fin, and Elmer's White glue on the nose cone. Oh yea, and one fin done with "Plastic Wood" which I remember was so-so. You would've seen evidence of uneven sanding, and the bugaboo of all who used model airplane dope in those days -- the bubble gaps on the fillets.

Of course, as I've noted elsewhere here, I lost that model on the first flight. It landed in a tree high above my dad's fishing worm bed, and a few months later he brought it to me, waterlogged, as chewed by squirrels and other rodents. But the fins that weren't chewed looked great, and the nose cone just needed some spackle and fresh paint to fill in the holes. I put them on a new body, and continued flying it for about a year after that.
 
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