I am astounded at the ignorance concerning money and investing

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Regarding retirement, a few things have become clear:

Each person is 100% responsible for saving/investing to fund his/her own retirement (including health care).

There will be nothing else; the money is all gone. This will become apparent within the next 10 years.

As a result there will be a lot of yelling and screaming, but it won't change anything. You can carry on all you want about what you "paid in" for 50 years, the money is still gone.

It's too bad one particular age group/generation is going to have to take it up the wazzoo on this issue, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. It's been pretty apparent for 30-40 years this was going to happen; should have gotten ready.
 
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High school valedictorians usually wind up taking remedial classes once they hit university.

That's a sad commentary on the state of the public school system in the failed socialist state of California.
 
Sounds like these people couldn't even balance a check book.

This is one of those almost lost skills, but it is also almost an irrelevant skill now.

The main purpose for balancing a check book was to make sure you knew your balance at any given time, so you would not become overdrawn by writing a check that would bounce, and also to double-check that checks posted to your account at the correct amount, and to be sure your check register matched your bank statement. Now 90% of your bills can be paid online, so the number of checks you might write in a month can usually be counted on one hand. You can check if they cleared by checking your account online. You can also check your balance online at any time. And you can usually set up some kind of overdraft protection that automatically draws from a savings account without even charging you a fee. There is almost zero chance that an online transaction will post at an incorrect amount. So as long as you keep an eye on your balance, scan to be sure all your automatic and online bills are posting, double-check to make sure credit card and debit card transactions look about right and match any to reciepts that stand out --- as long as you do that, the need for actually writing them all down and balancing a checkbook is negligible. It's sloppy bookkeeping, but in most cases it works fine.

Probably a better use of time would be to download all your transactions into a home bookkeeping system, like Quicken, and see where all your money is going. Does your budget make sense? Are you spending on things you shouldn't?
 
so. my approach of burying mason jars full of money in the back yard isn't the best approach?? :confused2::confused:

just joking :neener:

Frankly, I don't/can't follow all the financial stuff to figure out how to best invest my money
And in my opinion, the reality is none of the "experts" can either (or else they would all be rich and not need to work and chase me to get my money). They make their money by using mine, not by investing their own.....

My company got sold and I left my original funds in the old company's 401k. I got a call from a hot-shot investment firm wanting me to roll my money over to them.
Hey - we got 50 choices! I have trouble deciding between the 12 my old company offered
Meanwhile, I decided to talk to them (hey - talking never hurts). One thing they did was compare how my money would have done if I had invested through them for the previous 3 years vs how I actually did for the last 3 years. They would have provided me 3.5%. My "dumb luck" netted me nearly 9%
Needless to say I didn't transfer my money........ but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.....:wink:

Sometime dumb luck will win out over a certain period of time, but it usually means that your portfolio is unbalanced in some way and will underperform when the market changes.
 
I saw a chart while i was still in college that estimated how much you would need to retire. At the time, REALLY good money was $40,000k per year and most engineers got between $20k and $30k out of college. The chart said I would need to have $1.7 MILLION dollars to retire at 65. It scared the poop out of me, but luckily my parents had already taught us to be savers. Every few years I see charts that are more or less like that.

The target hasn't shifted much.
 
The Complexity in it's self I think is a deturent.
It took me 30 years to save the little bit I had, down about 50% shortly after 911. I failed to move from an aggressive to a more secure investment plan.
When I was laid off in 2008, we scroundged to survive on unenjoyment for nearly 2 years.
I truthfully thought I would be returnin to work, and still have not.
It took less than 3 years to burn up the retirement I had just to survive without just the basic needs.
At the end, we lost the home and all that was invested in it. Sold off my wood shop machines for less than 1/2 what they were worth due to no where to store them.
Plus we only had 10 days to move out. Luckily we made enough to stay 2 weeks in a motel till we found this current appartment and was about move in.
Over 2 years later, and I still have much of my mechanics tools and household items stored at a friends house.

I read a book a number of years ago titled, "Get Rich Slowly". Which delt with low return percentages but secured. Using short term mutal funds and such.
It was way over whelming for me, which was written for the "Standard" American worker force.

Credit Cards are a farce as far as I'm concerned. They suck you in and keep you in debt. It's easy to get it now and pay later over time, not knowing exactly how much that purchase is really going to cost you over time. When I traveled for work I put gas on a gas credit card, but paid in full when the statement came. No annual fee, and gained points for free gas over time. That is the only conveinence I see CC use, so you don't have to carry large amount of cash all the time.
There is many places now that won't except cash. I incountered one a few months ago. I pointed out that bills all said, "Legal Tender" on them.
They refused it. I simply asked for a statement saying that and the receptionist asked why?
I told her that when we go to court you refused payment which makes the bill null and void. She returned a couple minuets latter and took my cash.

I took a class in high school called Economics, which taught nothing about individual investments or banking practices.
A required class for Seniors was called Government. It taught very lettle on how the goverment works. Should have been called Government History.

A complet overhaul is due to the USA. I think it is going to take a civial war again, and they know it's coming. Why else for all the Gun Control, and now proposals that deal with ammo limitations and ilegal to poses some rounds.
 
The best piece of advice my Dad ever gave me was to start a 401k as soon as the company offered it, put as much as I could afford into it each paycheck, and never touch it until the time came to start drawing on it. I took that advice and am glad I did. No way I'd ever have had the wherewithal to save that kind of money on my own. Unfortunately he didn't take my advice and buy my sister a Honda Civic in 1988 instead of a 1986 Renault Encore that had been sitting on a local lot untitled for two years. There was a reason no one wanted those cars, and after he donated it to a local technical school he went and bought her the Civic.
 
This is one of those almost lost skills, but it is also almost an irrelevant skill now.

The main purpose for balancing a check book was to make sure you knew your balance at any given time, so you would not become overdrawn by writing a check that would bounce, and also to double-check that checks posted to your account at the correct amount, and to be sure your check register matched your bank statement. Now 90% of your bills can be paid online, so the number of checks you might write in a month can usually be counted on one hand. You can check if they cleared by checking your account online. You can also check your balance online at any time. And you can usually set up some kind of overdraft protection that automatically draws from a savings account without even charging you a fee. There is almost zero chance that an online transaction will post at an incorrect amount. So as long as you keep an eye on your balance, scan to be sure all your automatic and online bills are posting, double-check to make sure credit card and debit card transactions look about right and match any to reciepts that stand out --- as long as you do that, the need for actually writing them all down and balancing a checkbook is negligible. It's sloppy bookkeeping, but in most cases it works fine.

Probably a better use of time would be to download all your transactions into a home bookkeeping system, like Quicken, and see where all your money is going. Does your budget make sense? Are you spending on things you shouldn't?

I just use online banking to know where I'm at like you said. I was being more facetious than anything else. :wink:
 
The Complexity in it's self I think is a deturent.
It took me 30 years to save the little bit I had, down about 50% shortly after 911. I failed to move from an aggressive to a more secure investment plan.
When I was laid off in 2008, we scroundged to survive on unenjoyment for nearly 2 years.
I truthfully thought I would be returnin to work, and still have not.
It took less than 3 years to burn up the retirement I had just to survive without just the basic needs.
At the end, we lost the home and all that was invested in it. Sold off my wood shop machines for less than 1/2 what they were worth due to no where to store them.
Plus we only had 10 days to move out. Luckily we made enough to stay 2 weeks in a motel till we found this current appartment and was about move in.
Over 2 years later, and I still have much of my mechanics tools and household items stored at a friends house.

I read a book a number of years ago titled, "Get Rich Slowly". Which delt with low return percentages but secured. Using short term mutal funds and such.
It was way over whelming for me, which was written for the "Standard" American worker force.

Credit Cards are a farce as far as I'm concerned. They suck you in and keep you in debt. It's easy to get it now and pay later over time, not knowing exactly how much that purchase is really going to cost you over time. When I traveled for work I put gas on a gas credit card, but paid in full when the statement came. No annual fee, and gained points for free gas over time. That is the only conveinence I see CC use, so you don't have to carry large amount of cash all the time.
There is many places now that won't except cash. I incountered one a few months ago. I pointed out that bills all said, "Legal Tender" on them.
They refused it. I simply asked for a statement saying that and the receptionist asked why?
I told her that when we go to court you refused payment which makes the bill null and void. She returned a couple minuets latter and took my cash.

I took a class in high school called Economics, which taught nothing about individual investments or banking practices.
A required class for Seniors was called Government. It taught very lettle on how the goverment works. Should have been called Government History.

A complet overhaul is due to the USA. I think it is going to take a civial war again, and they know it's coming. Why else for all the Gun Control, and now proposals that deal with ammo limitations and ilegal to poses some rounds.

What I've been able to do is set up auto pay for the monthly balance, that way I'm not paying interest on my accounts as they get paid in full every month automatically.
 
I just use online banking to know where I'm at like you said. I was being more facetious than anything else. :wink:

Ha ha! As a person who is facetious myself pretty often, I should have known! That winking smiley goes a long way... :wink:
 
Did you ever notice that when schools are closed because of snow that most of the kids have smiles on their faces? Perhaps that is because they enjoy a break from the relentless indoctrination masquerading as education?
life-in-school-1983.jpg
 
I saw a chart while i was still in college that estimated how much you would need to retire. At the time, REALLY good money was $40,000k per year and most engineers got between $20k and $30k out of college. The chart said I would need to have $1.7 MILLION dollars to retire at 65. It scared the poop out of me, but luckily my parents had already taught us to be savers. Every few years I see charts that are more or less like that.

The target hasn't shifted much.

You see these kinds of figures pretty often, and they sound staggering and unattainable. Even if you know what that goal is in 40 or 45 years, it's hard to say for sure what you should be saving to get there. Your income will change over your life. Economic ups and downs will come along. Markets will boom, bust, chug along slowly, stagnate for a decade, then take off again. You'll have financial emergencies and unexpected windfalls.

You look at that huge number and think "Why bother." You look at all those years and think, "There'll be time." I think the real thing people should focus on is not some distant goal that looks totally unattainable. Most people do not have a handle on day to day finances let alone super long-term goals. The thing to do is understand your day to day finances. Figure out where your money goes and decide if it makes sense, and if you are spending on something that doesn't make sense, make a change. Find a way to save a little bit and work to build on that.

I didn't start saving for my retirement until I was about 30 years old, about 20 years ago. I went into an Edward Jones office and opened an IRA. Back then the annual limit was $2,000 a year, which sounded like a lot of money to me and not something I wanted to make room in my budget for, but I decided to bite the bullet. I set up an automatic transfer of $166 per month, and it wasn't that hard to do, even though I was making less than $30k a year. The guy told me, "You're going to need a lot of money to retire, but right now, I want you to just focus on making this monthly investment. Right now, your goal is to save ten thousand dollars. That might sound like a lot, but it's going to happen faster than you expect, and then we'll talk about a hundred thousand. And later, we'll talk about more." It works.

Once you have "enough," more money does not make you any happier. And by "enough," I mean your daily needs and expenses are met so you have a decent roof over your head and decent food, and you don't have to worry constantly about money. After that, the rest is fluff and doesn't count for much. Use a little bit of the extra to do something fun and enjoyable --- fly a rocket maybe. And after that, siphon a bit of that extra into your nestegg for the future. Almost all of us are spending something on something unnecessary that isn't really adding to our lives. Root that stuff out and save it for the future.
 
In a previous thread someone noted that in 10 years a generation will have to tend for themselves because SSI and medical will no longer be provided for.
Medical provisions have already started.
In the event of natural disasters, the Gov't has buses, fences, campers, bascially mobile interment camps.
I believe this is trials for what is to come. Remember what they did to the American/Japanese at the beginning of WWII?
In Star Trek DS9, there is an episode where they beam to Earth through a plasma field and end up in 2024.
They had turned the slums of every major city into camps for the unemployed.
The promise of jobs that never came. Health and food relief that never came.
It led to a uprising which changed Earth forever.
[Edited by Mods - Godwin's law]
My father, a Marine in WWII told me, it isn't Russia, the "Bomb" or being invaded that we will have to fear in the future.
Especially after Patton died. Because he was all ready and willing to go then to put down Communisim.
Which then led to Korea and VM, backed by Russia. Then into Afganistain, which "Good Time Charlie" did behind the schenes arms deals with Saudia. Again against Communist Russia.
He also told me, repeatedly, in my lifetime we would see the US be destroyed by within it's own greed. I think he was a very smart man, and correct.
I turned 55 Wed., I hope I do not live long enough to see the days he said was coming, the days noted above.
I am sorry for my 3 boys that will have to indure it. One of which will not even know I'm his true father. (another long story)
I've said this before, and I stand by what I say.
Money is Greed. Greed is Power. Money+Greed+Power=Absolute Corruption. And that is where the USA is right now.
If you are not greedy, know the powers of money, you have no power, than you are an honest person.
If you have money, than you are greedy, which gives you power, that has corrupted you.
Which defys "The Constitution of the United States of America".
Every "MAN" is equal.
Those that have the power, must use that power to over throw such Gov't that denys the individual or the masses of it's rights set forth by this constitution.
Gun Control, Ammo Control. That is what our current Gov't is putting upon the masses right now, violating our 2nd Amendment Rights.
From City Officials, to the President of The United States, it's corruped by the greed and power of money.
I've attended many city meetings since I now live withing city limits.
And I can not believe that only the greedy and rich attend the meetings, make proposals, and pass them without the citizens vote.
And all for the "Good of the People".
It is a shame that more of the people in every community will not get off there super phones, computers, game machines, or what ever...
And at least attend "ONE" city meeting a month to see what their "Elected Officials" are doing with their tax dollars.
AND THE SCHOOLS ARE DICTATED BY WHAT THEY TEACH FROM K-2YRS OF COLLEGE, BY THIS GOVERNMENT.
Technoliogy may have brought the world together, but it has also distanced us from fundamentals.
I could go on n on. Time to stop.
Go to your next open city, township or county meeting.
Find out exactly what is going on.
Plant a bug, because most of the "Crap" is done behind closed doors.
I left my cell phone called to my wifes's cell phone in the meeting hall last meeting when they called for closed door session.
And listened in the parking lot.
They gave themselves raises because revenues has dropped 22.28% and they blamed the county, whom blamed the state, whom blamed the national econemy.
Basically, as the law is written, houses in forclosure held by banks or realitors, the tax is cut to 10% because no one lives there. No water, sewer, curb or sidwalk fees. Basic 10% of value yearly to give the financial institutions a break so they can sell at a profit.
No jobs, no buyers, no use, it's the Gov'ts fault. They have to deal with the extra paperwork, and a lot these days, it demands more of their time.
So, behind closed doors they voted a raise for themselves.
 
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Question 4: “After divorce, what will you have?" A) More than today. B) Exactly the same. C) Less than today. D) Do not know/Do not care.

Answer to question 4: C) or D)
 
Let's try this again, without the fighting, shall we?

This has the potential to be a very useful thread. Let's keep it that way.

Please?
 
Question 4: “After divorce, what will you have?" A) More than today. B) Exactly the same. C) Less than today. D) Do not know/Do not care.

Answer to question 4: C) or D)

Now that was a good one! :lol:
 
Question 1: “Suppose you had $100 in a savings account and the IRS discovered that you did. How much would they tax the pittance that you earn from the interest? A) 50% B) 75% C) All of it. D) Do not know/Refuse to admit I actually have any money left over to save.

Question 2: “Imagine that the interest rate on your savings account was 1% per year and inflation was 2% per year. By how much is the Federal Government incorrectly stating the inflation rate? A) 3%. B) 6%. C) God help us all. D) Do not know/Refuse to even think about it.

Question 3: “Please tell me whether this statement is true or false: Buying a single company’s stock usually provides a safer return than a stock mutual fund.” True; but only if you know in advance that it will be bailed out by the Fed.
 
So back to the original question, the future of capitalism belongs to those willing to invest their time and money fighting off legislation to take it away from you..:smile:

A quote from my father when I was a teen.
"Its easy making money, the hard part is keeping it"
 
Three lessons from my grandparents who survived the Great Depression (and watched the banks crash and burn):

1) Always save for the future
2) Put your money in the bank and get a good interest rate
3) Never trust banks

Actually, what we found out was that they trusted banks, but never trusted any ONE bank. When they died we found that they had accounts (mostly small) in nearly every bank in town. They assumed that if any one, or even two banks failed, they still would have money to buy food and cover expenses until the next paycheck.
 
#3 is BS. It cannot be answered true or false.

Correct answer is the right stock will always outperform a mutual funds + it should be tailored to the age and risk of the client.
aggressive, income, conservative etc strategies set depending on age and willingness for risk

The third question is not BS; it is clearly false. Here is the question again: Question 3: “Please tell me whether this statement is true or false: Buying a single company’s stock usually provides a safer return than a stock mutual fund.”

You can do all the research in the world and pick a great company, but bad things happen. BP had a massive oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, airlines can lose planes, Union Carbide had a gas leak in India that killed over 1,000 people and exposed over 500,000. Severe and sudden problems can happen at the best companies that can cause the price of the stock to plummet. Therefore, owning a single stock usually exposes you to more risk than a diversified mutual fund.

And since you said you know what McDonalds sells, what is their main product? I heard this answer from an investment professional on the radio and thought the guy was loopy - until he explained it and then it made perfect sense. Hint: if you think food, you're not even close.
 
...And since you said you know what McDonalds sells, what is their main product? I heard this answer from an investment professional on the radio and thought the guy was loopy - until he explained it and then it made perfect sense. Hint: if you think food, you're not even close.

Yep. They sell a feeling.
 
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Yep. They sell a feeling.

Nope. Think about the question from an investor's point of view. When you buy stock in the McDonald's corporation, what do they do that makes you money as a stockholder? What is their main asset that drives revenue?
 
Nope. Think about the question from an investor's point of view. When you buy stock in the McDonald's corporation, what do they do that makes you money as a stockholder? What is their main asset that drives revenue?

Customer satisfaction.
 
Comon Zeus,,
You're killin me with curiosity...

What does McDonald's sell that drives so much revenue for them ???

Teddy
 
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it was Coca-cola. The profit margins on soft drinks are nothing short of obscene, but you said it wasn't food, so assuming it isn't that, and I'm guessing that the margins on selling franchises is not a long-term driver, then I'm not really sure.
 
Hey,,,,
Wait a minute...
I got it.....
I remember reading in a business paper many years ago....

Paper products.........

McDonald's manufactures their own paper products............

Teddy
 
You guys are looking at the trees; its about the forest. Its not hamburgers, its not Coke or Pepsi, its not fries. What does the CORPORATION do?
 
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