State of the forum

What has happened to people ?
It used to be people would go out there way to help each other and give someone the benefit of the doubt.
Its one of the reasons I got into this hobby was the people in it were great, it is still like that at the local field but not in here.
People can not wait to get on the forum and put a dig in on some one with out thinking twice about it .
I under stand competition and that goes to far most of the time , but everybody else?
Why?

...cabin fever? It's kinda been a sucky winter that most will be happy to see go. The last few have been fairly mild and you could work on or fly rockets but this one has been bad for the most part.

The answer lies outside the sport. We're living in particularly contentious times.

I agree with dave. Posting on online forums is what I do in between launches. Burnt black powder and AP cocktails are where it's at.

dave carver said:

...cabin fever? It's kinda been a sucky winter that most will be happy to see go. The last few have been fairly mild and you could work on or fly rockets but this one has been bad for the most part.

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This. I'm surprised more forums are not used by Doctors in research. I find that right around this time, no matter the topic, age of the crowd, etc. tempers flare easily. Very cyclical.

I think part of it's the weather and boredom.

I think people do it to feel better about their own misdeeds or place in life. It really isn't productive in this environment. If you need to vent see a therapist. The forums are intended to share ideas, educate the masses, and just to have fun. I am sure that if you want to knock someone down there is a forum/blog/etc somewhere that is more appropriate than here.

Another possibility is that some people just like to argue. When you can come on a forum like this using a fake name it is easier to be rude and confrontational than you would be face to face. We saw some of that in the recently deleted threads. And then some people complained about the moderation and censoring. This is private property and you do not have the right to speak freely; you have to follow the rules which really chafes some people and I think that makes them rude too.

I realized the other day that there will be a 5 month gap in my flying because of the weather. That bugs me but not enough to become a pecker on the forums. I guess some have it worse than I do.

Peter Olivola said:

The answer lies outside the sport. We're living in particularly contentious times.

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This will be a rare response on my part. I agree with Peter Olivola. But don't get your hopes up, it won't last! :wink:

Could also be the threads you're reading. I've read a lot that were very supportive, like it should be.

I can only speak on behalf of the threads I've started and I've had no problems with the support and kind words of true enthusiasts. Not that I don't believe it lies elsewhere, just from limited, personal exposure on this forum I support. It has given me an outlet to be productive with something in my life that seems to give joy to others. It has become a win, win situation for all involved. It's a shame though that folks, who are only human, can be less than a bit courteous at times but I can sometimes understand.

I have noticed quite a few threads like that going around lately. I try to stay out of them though because I'm really bad about getting into internet arguments.

There are like five or six LONG paragraphs saved to my computer that are my responses to internet arguments. Those were just the ones on which I had the sense to keep my mouth shut.

Peter Olivola said:

The answer lies outside the sport. We're living in particularly contentious times.

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+2

And it is "Top Down"...

Hmmmmm,
Could it be the watering hole topics? I don't spend much time in there so if there are some OT non-rocketry issues discussed, that could explain the degeneration into personal attacks. If one brings up politics, religion or evolution by golly someone could get hurt because of the diverse beliefs out there. Kurt

There are those who insist on breaking the forum rules regardless (time of year is no excuse whatsoever).

And they apparently never REALLY get punished (as in suspended for a week or more as the infractions accumulate), so there is no real reason for them to stop.

- George Gassaway

WILDMANRS said:

What has happened to people?...Why?

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Emails and forums are such a lean communication medium. Emails and forums lack tone, facial expression, body language, and so many other elements that you capture with a face to discussion. In short, if someone comes across as a dick on the forum, they are likely not in the real world. Spirited discussions are more fun face to face. On the forum, things tend to snowball quickly... :surprised: op:

rfjustin said:

Emails and forums are such a lean communication medium. Emails and forums lack tone, facial expression, body language, and so many other elements that you capture with a face to discussion. In short, if someone comes across as a dick on the forum, they are likely not in the real world. Spirited discussions are more fun face to face. On the forum, things tend to snowball quickly... :surprised: op:

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I prefer to think that much of the argument is friendly banter. My real friends and I can toss insults all afternoon, then break for a beer.

mikemech said:

I prefer to think that much of the argument is friendly banter. My real friends and I can toss insults all afternoon, then break for a beer.

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Bingo! I sometimes think that a rocketry forum is a place where anti-social people get together to socialize. :rant::rant::rant:

True for some I would agree, but too many people think they have better ideas or better everything for this hobby....meaning so many people come across as cocky, condescending...etc. This is a hobby where we should share and give insight on what we as individuals know and share that with others to help answer their questions. This is one of many reasons why I only joined the forum three years ago even though I've been doing this hobby since the early 90's.....and I'm not an "old guy" by any means....I could go on but there is no point on here!!

Preston

tmacklin said:

Bingo! I sometimes think that a rocketry forum is a place where anti-social people get together to socialize. :rant::rant::rant:

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As a new guy, I have to say it's "so far, so good".

That said, I think the general "jerk" state of the Internet is largely to blame. Folks are willing to say stuff online that they'd never say to someone's face, whether they would think it in person or not.

While the ability to discuss and not repress feelings is important, as a society, we seem to have lost much of our common courtesy (as well as many other once-"common" things, such as sense, decency, ...)

As we say at ROC

FlyBoy said:

As we say at ROC

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Freekin Hippies! Just joking! Just joking!
I think Wildman is right though, there does seem to be more A-holes on here since I joined and that's exactly why I don't spend near as much time here as I used to. I don't think is the weather either.

georgegassaway said:

There are those who insist on breaking the forum rules regardless (time of year is no excuse whatsoever).

And they apparently never REALLY get punished (as in suspended for a week or more as the infractions accumulate), so there is no real reason for them to stop.

- George Gassaway

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Punishment.....hmmmmmm? I think I make a tool just for that purpose. :dark:

bill2654 said:

there does seem to be more A-holes on here since I joined...

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Absolutely true.

I think its up to everyone, male or female, to look at the seat before sitting down. To expect it in any position every time is absurd,... oops, wrong thread,...

I was directed here based on this post: https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...d)-(Directions-Preview)&p=1428169#post1428169

So, I think I provided some pretty decent advice over there with some insightful commentary on the minds of consumers. View complaints as an opportunity to impress, get ahead of problems as you find out about them, the forum is a vehicle for promotion, yadda. Much like Beyonce will never get this picture removed from the internet, no vendor will ever scrub critical comments about their offerings from the internet.

I have been pretty critical in the past of Wildman. My behavior going forward won't be critical. That linked post isn't critical and the response to it is reminiscent of the behavior being condemned in this thread. Read it again, think about it, and start down the road of "Rocketry Forum Reclamation" espoused in this thread.

Ahhh, the good advice given, "Go to the vendor first." should be heeded. One might like the results. In 8 years I was only burned by a motor hardware maker no longer in existence (skipped out actually) Everything else has been pleasantly handled privately.
No reason to bung up someone's livelihood or source of additional income publicly. Kurt

rfjustin said:

Emails and forums are such a lean communication medium. Emails and forums lack tone, facial expression, body language, and so many other elements that you capture with a face to discussion. In short, if someone comes across as a dick on the forum, they are likely not in the real world. Spirited discussions are more fun face to face. On the forum, things tend to snowball quickly... :surprised: op:

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+1 to this. People tend to forget that there is another person on the other end. The vast majority of us are not precise enough in our writing to convey tone. One might be be saying something in jest, or meant a particular way, and it is completely misconstrued.

That being said, some people are just boneheads. They make things personal instead of substantive. It is the difference in saying I think your design could use a minor change or two to optimize it versus saying your design is ****.

After being a mod for 4 years or so on Rocketry Planet I have a somewhat unique perspective. It was that experience that made me nearly quit the hobby. Once we shutdown RP I was so burned out on rocketry that it took close to a year to want to build and fly again. Somedays, I think we all have far too much input coming at us. Too much freaking Internet makes us less personable as we forget how to deal with real people instead of a screen name. One of the reasons if I were to ever start my own forum all screen names will be real names- no exceptions.

tmacklin said:

Punishment.....hmmmmmm? I think I make a tool just for that purpose. :dark:

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There is a fine line between keeping the peace in a forum, and suppressing speech. There are times you need to put the hammer down and eject folks who are consistently a pain in the buttocks. Conversely, you need to have a certain amount of tolerance to allow for opinion. Mods need to exercise a lot of judgement, and at times may over react, and at times under react. It is the nature of the beast.

I have not seen much on trf recently that I thought was very bad. A few comments that might have gotten a pm, but not much more. Then again, on RP I spent hours a day reading every post and looking at it from a mod perspective. Here I am just another guy.