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boomtube-mk2

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How is anybody supposed to make an informed decision as to which camera to purchase?
I’m trying to keep the price below $100 as I don’t feel the quality of the more expensive cameras is any better than the cheaper cameras.
Sure you spend $300 or more and you get more and better features but they still crap out on you after two or three years just like the $75 ones.
At least that’s been my experience.

Now I go onto Amazon and I start perusing the various cameras that fall into my price range and there is a universal truth about them with regards to their product reviews.
Every camera will have a bunch of four and five star reviews extolling how great this or that camera is but there is inevitably a bunch of one or two star revues all saying basically the same thing.
The camera worked for a few weeks or even just days and then it died and nobody would do anything about replacing it.

All I really want is something to take still pictures of my rockets so I can post them here so 100x zoom or 50bazilion pixels or whatever isn’t on my menu, nor I’m I interested in hauling around a camera that is only slightly smaller than my LOC Mini-Magg and weighs more than same.

I’ve been dithering over this for months now and I’m not any closer to making a decision than I was back in December when I decided to make a new camera one of my Christmas gifts to myself.
Any suggestions? Keeping in mind my number one axiom with regards to photography.
There are only two types of cameras; cheap cameras with which I can take really crappy photos and expensive cameras with which I can take really crappy photos.

So please no recommendations over $100.
 
A few points to consider...

It depends on what kind of flexibility and quality you're looking for. There's a BIG difference between a near thousand dollar DSLR camera with interchangeable lenses and a cheapy pocket-size digital camera with a peep-hole lens. That's why there's different cameras-- they do different jobs and have far different capabilities...

First, the biggest difference is the "chip" or sensor. The larger the sensor, the better the camera. It isn't just about "megapixels" anymore... you can get 10-20 megapixels on a typical chip now, (one about roughly 1/4 inch square) but you're not going to get the same resolution or photo quality as you could from a chip with the same number of megapixels the size of a postage stamp or 35mm film negative. As far as megapixels go, it's a highly overrated thing, designed primarily to sell more expensive cameras to unsuspecting or unknowledgeable buyers... Megapixels basically dictate how much you can enlarge the photograph before it becomes "pixellated" or "grainy". It basically translates to the negative (film) size of old film cameras... for instance, you can enlarge a 35 mm to 10x14 pretty easily and still have a good quality print, but enlarging a picture taken with a 100 camera to even 8x10 usually results in a pretty grainy print. If you want super-high quality enlargements, you'd need super-large, super high resolution film or sensors... like those gorgeous posters of John Muir's work, taken with large-format cameras (using up to 3x5 film sizes or thereabouts) for top quality enlargements and super-dense images. SO, unless you intend to blow your photos up to poster size or put on the side of a milk truck, you really don't need more than 5-10 megapixels.

Factor number two, you need "quality glass". That's the big difference between cheapy film cameras and high-end professional quality film cameras. The larger the lens, and the higher quality it is, the better the image that it will send to the sensor, which makes a big difference in the final product. That's why "pinhole lens" cameras like the little 808 keychain cams have lower picture quality than cameras with larger lenses, even for equivalent chip sizes and resolutions... Basically, the larger the lens, the better the quality, up to a point... once you get up to DSLR size camera's, the difference isn't in the size, it's in the quality of the glass... and there's a BIG difference in a $150 lens of a given size, and a $1,000 lens of the same size... the difference is in the optical qualities of the glass itself. You'll see a distinct difference between the little cheapy point-n-shoot pocket cameras, and the mid-range "pro-sumer" models (look like a DSLR, but with non-removeable/non-interchangeable lenses) and the big true DSLRs (with interchangeable lenses). This is something you should bear in mind.

Thirdly is functionality. The cheaper the camera, the fewer functions it will have... and things like a good burst mode, and the ability to tinker with other settings, can be extremely useful and allow you to do thing with the camera you might not be able to do otherwise. For rocket photography, a good "burst mode" (which will take a sequence of pictures in very short order-- my Fuji Finepix S2000HD will take a burst of 33 pictures in about 3 seconds, at 5 mp. It's actually a 10 MP camera, but I normally run it on 5MP resolution setting anyway, to keep the file size down into the 1-2MB range... filesize depends on the photo composition, background, and light levels, and how "busy" the picture is... that's another drawback to unnecessarily high megapixel counts-- it leads to enormous file sizes for pictures that take up a LOT of room on your card and hard drive). Another important issue is the size of the buffer, or internal memory, that stores the photos from the instant they're taken (or in burst mode, the series of photos) from the time they're taken until they're written to the card as a data file. The larger and faster the buffer, the more "power" the camera has to take high resolution, rapid burst mode photos (particularly useful for launches). The speed of the card is the second variable in that equation-- the faster the card's "C-rating" (speed), the faster the camera can (generally speaking) write the files from the buffer to the card and be ready to take another photo. There can be a BIG difference in cameras based on the electronics, buffer size, programming, and card size on how fast the camera can take pictures... and cheaper is very rarely better...

The next thing to consider is, the sensor quality. If you're just taking rocket pics and other stuff like that in full daylight, a typical sensor can do that pretty well... the real difference in sensors becomes apparent in low-light conditions... a cheap sensor will have reduced low-light sensitivity and be "noisier" (not display blacks as "true black" but rather will have speckles of color in the dark portions of a photo) than a high quality sensor. Usually the larger the sensor, the noisier it tends to be (IIRC) so there's a tradeoff between size and quality. For typical rocketry use in full daylight, this might not be an issue for you. If you plan on doing night launch photography though, you might end up with some ugly shots with a cheap camera...

The other big issue is zoom... a cheap camera with a fixed lens (point-n-shoot pocket cameras) will have a lens of varying size and quality (anywhere from "pinhole" type lenses up to one the size of a quarter or thereabouts, depending on the camera) but usually they're a FIXED lens... these cameras can "zoom in" on a subject so it fills the screen, but this is done via DIGITAL zoom. What digital zoom does is simply "shave off" the information from the edges of the sensor and "zooms in" on only that part of the image striking the very center of the sensor. What this does is, in effect, reduce resolution and, more importantly, sensor size, thus making the image blurrier and less detailed, and of course making it much more susceptible to enlargement artifacts and other artifacts in processing and compression of the file. I turn the digital zoom completely off on my camera, as it basically just serves to degrade the image. OTOH, my camera has an excellent 15x OPTICAL zoom, which is zoom created BY THE LENS, meaning that the image is enlarged through the LENS and then that enlarged image is projected onto the FULL SENSOR, so that the image quality and resolution is maintained. This makes a huge difference in the final appearance of the pictures. IMHO, DIGITAL zoom is practically worthless if you want great looking shots... OPTICAL zoom is what you want. Of course, to get it, you have to get a camera with a zoom lens-- either a higher-end point-and-shoot with a motorized "extending lens" or a pro-sumer model (which is what the Fuji Finepix S2500HD is) to get the good buffer and functionality, while still keeping the cost reasonable.

My Fuji has been surpassed by later, newer models, but it does what I want and does it well... I'd recommend them to anybody, as it has the functionality while still being pretty intuitive to use and not requiring a steep learning curve to get great shots like a full-on DSLR usually does. It's also pretty reasonable on price-- not as cheap as a point-n-shoot pocket camera, but nowhere near the expense of a full-on DSLR either... and the functionality and better quality is something you'll have to pay for if you want good pictures.

Anyway, hope that gives you something to think about... I went through this entire learning curve a few years back, so I can understand how daunting it can be and why its so confusing...

Don't be afraid to go by your local electronics store (Fry's, Gregg, Best Buy, etc.) and actually "put hands" on camera's your thinking about buying-- it'll give you a feel for the settings and functionality that you just cannot get from reading about it on a website. Doesn't mean you have to necessarily buy it there, but hey, if you can get a deal... why not? :)

Later and good luck! OL JR :)
 
Another recommendation:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Nikon-CO...ry-Card-and-Camera-Case-Value-Bundle/42029252

one of the most important reasons for choosing this model (as well as the older model I now have) is that it uses common batteries with the option to use the same batteries in rechargeable format. You never have to worry about whether it's charged, or how long it will take to recharge - it takes two AA batteries (configuration can be set so that it will work with lower output rechargeable batteries). Bundle also comes with 8G SD memory card (removable memory was also important), and a carrying case. Price is $60 (or so...0.
 
I have a degree in photography and several thousand dollars invested in equipment.

Having said that to give you some background... I picked up one of these at Target for $50, I think it would suit you just fine. Now $80 at Amazon.


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HQ4W58I/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I had one of those (maybe not that exact model, but a Coolpix something) that I kept in my laptop bag that I carried everywhere for a while. Apparently that was a little too rough of a life for it and the rear screen died. I sent it in for a repair quote, but since it was out of warranty, it was cheaper to trash it. I also have HP something or other (don't know the model, but it is several years old) that I've taken a little better care of and the GF had for a while. It's been a good camera and still is. The Coolpix was cheaper and took good pictures. The HP camera takes good pictures too and If I can ever get motivated, you'll see when (if?) I post my L3 build thread.

Adrian
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Another recommendation:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Nikon-CO...ry-Card-and-Camera-Case-Value-Bundle/42029252

one of the most important reasons for choosing this model (as well as the older model I now have) is that it uses common batteries with the option to use the same batteries in rechargeable format. You never have to worry about whether it's charged, or how long it will take to recharge - it takes two AA batteries (configuration can be set so that it will work with lower output rechargeable batteries). Bundle also comes with 8G SD memory card (removable memory was also important), and a carrying case. Price is $60 (or so...0.

- The AA battery option!!!

I really like that - it makes so much good sense. So much easier to deal with, and you can use alkaline, lithium, Nicads, NiMh, etc.

This is another great choice, and well under the OP's $100 limit.
 
- The AA battery option!!!

I really like that - it makes so much good sense. So much easier to deal with, and you can use alkaline, lithium, Nicads, NiMh, etc.

This is another great choice, and well under the OP's $100 limit.

I bought a Nikon CoolPix L20 for that exact reason. I did a lot of research, and found that model, it has other features I wanted, and I got it at the local Wal Mart for $99. It's a fairly sophisticated unit, lots of features. Takes good pictures, even decent (not HD) video. Never had any trouble; I'm happy with mine.
 
AA batteries are a good option. I bought a Fuji that used AA's before going on a hunt in Africa because we were a week+ with no power to recharge. Not even from a vehicle.

M
 
My equipment over the years has been high end Nikons. When I needed something to just keep in my pocket I got a Coolpick L28. One of the primary reasons is that it takes standard AA batteries. Basically, previous posts were on the money.
 
The Best Camera is the one you have with you, and for most people that is the iPhone camera. More photos were taken with iPhones than with any other camera in the world last year. Although it is true that point and shoots and DSLRs can take much higher quality photos, the photos the iPhone and some other smart phones take are 'good enough' for most people, and if you just want to take simple stills of your rocket fleet, pull the phone out of your pocket and save a hundred dollars on that point and shoot you were considering. And if you don't have a smart phone yet, $99 will get you an iPhone 5s (with 2 year contract) or you can choose the Free iPhone 5. Yes you have to pay for monthly service but that is true of any mobile phone, whether it has a good camera or not. It sounds like you are tired of trying to study up on camera technology and reading conflicting reviews, all to figure out which one is the best, so I recommend you stop sweating it, get an iPhone (or other smart phone with a good camera) and just enjoy taking pictures whenever the need arises.

Although companies like Nikon and Canon still make point and shoot cameras, they don't make as many as they used to. Sales of point and shoots in the US dropped 40% in the last year alone, so if you like lugging around an extra device just to take pictures, buy one now, I don't think they will be around much longer.

Andy
 
The Best Camera is the one you have with you, and for most people that is the iPhone camera. Snipped..

Andy

Annie Leibovitz Was on Leno and she said basically the same. A fancy camera back home does you no good.

I rarely take a picture with my phone, it does not do what I want .

M
 
I have owned a Nikon Coolpix in the past and a Canon Elph, and they were both decent point and shoot cameras that lasted a long time. In fact they both still work. And they were not coddled at all. These were considered beater cameras. The main thing I wanted was something that would easily fit in my pocket. I put them in a case for storage and transport, but when I'm using them they are in a pocket. The Canon has gone on multiple week-long backpacking trips carried in a sweaty, dirty pocket. And it has gone on other less-filthy vacations for over a month at a time in a pocket. I've found that if I even have to go to the slightest effort to pull a camera out of a case, I won't use it at all. It's good to have a camera you are not too worried about.

Now the cameras built into phones are getting pretty good. The new iPhone cameras take better pictures in terms of pixel counts than my old Canon. But I do like having an optical zoom, not just digital. And I also like having a real viewfinder, not just a screen. I find it hard to frame shots using a screen when it is bright outside. And I think the flashes on even cheap cameras are better than those on phones.
 
... I do like having an optical zoom, not just digital. And I also like having a real viewfinder, not just a screen. I find it hard to frame shots using a screen when it is bright outside. And I think the flashes on even cheap cameras are better than those on phones.

Yes, Yes, and Yes!!! You are wise, O' Thirsty one!

- digital zoom is worthless.

- A real viewfinder is priceless in bright sunlight - although they aren't available on any small point-and-shoot cameras anymore. This is my personal single biggest pet peeve with cameras today.

- On most phones that's just a white LED, not a xenon flash tube... BIG difference!
 
Yes, Yes, and Yes!!! You are wise, O' Thirsty one!

- digital zoom is worthless.

- A real viewfinder is priceless in bright sunlight - although they aren't available on any small point-and-shoot cameras anymore. This is my personal single biggest pet peeve with cameras today.

- On most phones that's just a white LED, not a xenon flash tube... BIG difference!

The viewfinder thing is a big deal to me too. One of the reasons I've kept the old Canon this long is they are doing away with those on most small cameras. The DSLRs have them, but not the little point and shoots.
 
Luke, I really wish I could believe that paying more money actually bought me BETTER quality as opposed to just more features but sadly my personal experience doesn’t support that conclusion.

$300 cameras that last three years or less makes me wonder if those $600 cameras will only last five years or so before they start dying one feature at a time. You can have the best glass in the world but if it’s built with the same dime-a-dozen Chinese electronics as the $50 camera, then in the end all you’ll have is a very expensive magnifying glass suitable for starting fires.

And for those who mentioned the lack of a viewfinder. How is it that something as fundamental to photography as a viewfinder has now been omitted from, as near as I can tell, all point and shoot cameras?

Next will be the removal of all windshields in cars, trucks and SUVs to be replaced by a bunch of CCVs and grainy screens.

As for those who mentioned smart phones, I don’t have one and I have no intention of getting one so that won’t be the camera I have when needed.

Thanks for those who recommended the inexpensive Nikon cameras. It is nice to see a small camera that still uses a common readily available battery as opposed to something that can only be purchased on-line.

How easy is it to download photos from those Nikon’s?
It was simplicity itself with my last Canon, which also incidentally had a VIEWFINDER!!!!
 
I just take the memory card out and pop it into my computer.
 
I just take the memory card out and pop it into my computer.

That's what I do as well; my laptop has an SD slot. I bought a cheap dollar-store neoprene pouch to keep the camera in. Also in the bag is an SD/microSD to USB adapter in case I have to use someone else's computer.
 
Guess what else is apparently disappearing from cameras along with the viewfinder?
Answer: printed user manuals.

Yep; apparently all the camera manufactures expect us to go online to read the directions on how to use the camera we just purchased.

How (*@& is that?
 
Guess what else is apparently disappearing from cameras along with the viewfinder?
Answer: printed user manuals.

Yep; apparently all the camera manufactures expect us to go online to read the directions on how to use the camera we just purchased.

How (*@& is that?

These days, if a manual is needed to use a point and shoot camera, the camera is probably not well designed from a user interface perspective. And a tiny printed user manual doesn't do me much good, so I usually download a user manual anyway. I prefer to use a search function in acrobat to find what I'm looking for rather than squint at the tiny instruction card.

I'm pretty typical, probably, in not needing a printed manual.

Marc
 
I should re-title this topic “Camera Obstinate”.

As I’ve mentioned here before I’ve had several digital cameras go belly-up on me over the past few years the latest being my Canon Power Shot A510 which presented me with a whole host of funky feature failures.
So earlier today I was conversing with a friend about this and he asked me what type of batteries I was using. I answered that I was using rechargeable batteries as recommend by Canon.
He then told me to install a brand new set of alkaline batteries, something I had never used before, and low and behold, everything worked perfectly.

I then installed a set of brand new, fully charged rechargeable batteries and the camera went back to the aforementioned 3F status.

Go Figure.
 
This is not unique to cameras. I use a radio in my duties managing sports car races and the original rechargeable battery packs wouldn't last more than half a day. Switching to AA alkaline's gives me multiple days on a set of six batteries. At Costco prices for batteries it's not worth getting the radio "fixed."

I should re-title this topic “Camera Obstinate”.

As I’ve mentioned here before I’ve had several digital cameras go belly-up on me over the past few years the latest being my Canon Power Shot A510 which presented me with a whole host of funky feature failures.
So earlier today I was conversing with a friend about this and he asked me what type of batteries I was using. I answered that I was using rechargeable batteries as recommend by Canon.
He then told me to install a brand new set of alkaline batteries, something I had never used before, and low and behold, everything worked perfectly.

I then installed a set of brand new, fully charged rechargeable batteries and the camera went back to the aforementioned 3F status.

Go Figure.
 
This is not unique to cameras. I use a radio in my duties managing sports car races and the original rechargeable battery packs wouldn't last more than half a day. Switching to AA alkaline's gives me multiple days on a set of six batteries. At Costco prices for batteries it's not worth getting the radio "fixed."

It wasn’t that the rechargeable batteries went dead as they wouldn’t work AT ALL!!

As explained to me by my friend these types of batteries just don’t provide quite the necessary voltage/current whatever to jumpstart the electronics.

Now as to why the camera worked for several years with rechargeable and then developed some sort of snit with them is beyond my area of expertise.
 
Rechargeable batteries usually produce 1.2 volts versus 1.5 volts from single-use batteries. But, most cameras are designed to use either. I'd guess that your problem with the rechargeable batteries no longer working could be something as simple as corrosion on the contacts in the camera causing some resistance.

As far as camera reviews ... check out dpreviews.com. It's owned by Amazon, but offers good reviews full of technical data.

-- Roger
 
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