Wildman Jr. 38mm kit build thread

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DeadMonkey

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Greetings!
I'm new here, lurking for a while and thought I would post a build thread.
Questions? Comments? Be my guest.

This is my second Wildman kit and I LOVE the look of the new Profusion tube.
My previous Wildman kit was the 29mm mini. I pretty much followed the directions word for word since it was my first fiberglass build. It turned out great but has been lost to the rocketry gods. Hopefully she will show up some day but alas is probably fin deep in a gopher hole.

On to it then>
Sanding and prep:

Sanding was restricted only to where the fillets were going to be I simply measured where the large tongue depressor touched for the desired fillet size.
I used a belt sander to give a nice angle to the leading and trailing edges of the fins.
And of course I sanded the entire outside of the motor tube and the inside of the body tube.
The gap between the forward spacer rings will have a hole drilled, filled with epoxy and a brass threaded insert for the launch rails. Same for the aft.

The idea here with the Kevlar cord is I did not want to epoxy it lengthwise to the motor tube. I think a double noose is a better idea and ultimately lighter. With two of them, I double engineer it. If one breaks there is another. Or another way to think of it, two will split the load of one. I much rather like the peace of mind knowing there is redundancy. With each cord able to hold 1200lbs I think I'm covered.

I used blue coloring on the epoxy covering the Kevlar in an attempt to better see if it was covering it or not.

For the attaching the fins I used some West Systems Colodial Silica 406 to slightly thicken it so it stayed in place where it touches the body tube.
I taped up each fin and let it set up. This basically took all day! All the wile I had the end spacer ring in but not glued to properly space everything. I put in some eye screws so I can pry it out later. Tape wasn't going to cut it since its a nice tight fit.

To finish up the fins on the inside I did not like the directions where it has you drill 4 holes in the body tube for each fin and pump in epoxy. I am very much against putting any kind of holes into the body tube if at all possible. I just popped off the bottom ring and poured it in the back.
Much to my surprise it seems to have even 'wicked' up the side of the fin! kind of a self assembling fillet on the inside. Hooray surface tension.
I'm quite pleased with the outcome even though I never intended that to happen.

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This evening I made the mistake of having half a can of Red Bull. So here I am, still awake when I should have been asleep hours ago.
Though, good thing I'm awake because I needed to keep rotating the rocket to keep one fillet from slightly sagging. I have no Idea why this one is doing it vs the others. None of the others have budged. The only thing I can see different is the epoxy seems to be more glossy than the other fillets. I assume the bottom of the cup got more stirring than the rest.

oh well. I didn't need sleep anyways :surprised:

So I have recently been experimenting with some epoxy coloring.
If you haven't seen it, I suggest seeing some testing West Systems did on their site with known dyes.
I finally found, of all things, powdered food dye at my local craft store. It is quite powerful and soluble in epoxy. Not as good as liquid dye but my thinking is the less non epoxy substance in my mix the better. It only takes a tiny bit to color the epoxy too. I'm guessing less than 5% dye gave the results below. I tested a 3/16" disc and I could not break it with my bare hands OR by pushing on the corner of the desk with all my weight.

I went with red because my Stratologgers have red circuit boards and I just think it was the brightest.

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So I haven't done much today. Made a trip to the hardware store for some brass inserts and other spacer type hardware for the AVbay.
Once the epoxy cures I'll smoth down the insert flush.
Eventually I'll be putting on some Tear drop 1010 rail buttons. If I ever want to go naked I can just pop in some plastic rivets.
So it actually took a little tweaking, but having both loops/lines of Kevlar the exact same length is actually a big deal I think. This way both will take equal load. You can see it's pretty much spot on balanced. With them taped together I don't see ever having any issues.
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As I start to think about the AV bay I know I want a single aluminum rod joining each i hook with a flat milling for the sled. Has anyone done this before?
 
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As I start to think about the AV bay I know I wasn't a single aluminum rod joining each i hook with a flat milling for the sled. Has anyone done this before?

Uh..... Well, lets try to answer this. OK a single aluminum rod between each end of the bay. Check. Hooked to the end by flat milling? Not sure how with out threads or pins. Maybe a "T" slot? Threaded rod would be simpler I think, that way you can use wing nuts to open and close the ends. However, as I'm not a skilled machinist with access to mills and lathes, if you have an idea, run with it.
Maybe I need some of that Red Bull you had the other night to follow the line of thought here :wink: :wink:

Adrian
 
So basically this but with the aluminum where the steel threaded rod is. Just tap the ends to receive the nut. Mill a flat section length wise the size of the Sled. And tap some smaller holes down the length to screw the fiberglass sled to. I intend to do some weight testing to see how much static and impulse load (a tug) the rod can handle. What Max forces would be put on these two 'i' hooks?

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You will have a heck of a lot more room to utilize, if you ditch the tie rod through center & go with 2 smaller ones to the outside.
This is one of my Jr Kit av-bays......

I use # 6 or #8 threaded rod, more than enough for this, in fact I use them on 3in rockets also, for years.

This will free up both sides of sled as you can see with room for 2 altimeters & batteries.

Cut sled to fit snug end to end, notch for eyebolt nut [or not depending on altimeters used] & snug to sides, so it won't move when installed.

3/16 eyebolt ground flush to nut for max interior room.

Rods are close to edge of coupler and sled slides in-between them.

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TY, that's a pretty AV bay btw but I get how to do a normal sled, I just don't want the weight. steel rod is heavy. With the new smaller Strattologgers and Lipos, space really won't be a big deal.
I would use carbon fiber arrows (they are cheap) but I don't have any confident way to mechanically link the two ends besides epoxy.
I don't know why people still use 9vs They take up so much room. I'm just curious if anybody else has done this and/or knows what forces to expect so I can test it for peace of mind.
 
You will have a heck of a lot more room to utilize, if you ditch the tie rod through center & go with 2 smaller ones to the outside.
This is one of my Jr Kit av-bays......

I use # 6 or #8 threaded rod, more than enough for this, in fact I use them on 3in rockets also, for years.

This will free up both sides of sled as you can see with room for 2 altimeters & batteries.

Cut sled to fit snug end to end, notch for eyebolt nut [or not depending on altimeters used] & snug to sides, so it won't move when installed.

3/16 eyebolt ground flush to nut for max interior room.

Rods are close to edge of coupler and sled slides in-between them.

Uhhhhhhh Jim, where do you stick the tracker?:wink: The shockcord? Whenever I stick J's in mine it disappears. If it weren't for the Beeline GPS tracker that rides with the Raven II I would have lost mine three times. Very likely it would have been a permanent loss without the Beeline. Kurt
 
So it actually took a little tweaking, but having both loops/lines of Kevlar the exact same length is actually a big deal I think. This way both will take equal load. You can see it's pretty much spot on balanced. With them taped together I don't see ever having any issues./QUOTE]

Why not use a single big loop?
 
Really?

Those 2 tiny rods and all the nuts and bolts weigh less than 1/2 of 1 set 1/4in hardware.

"Normal" sled. Define normal.....there are so many ways to do this I don't think normal applies.

There many ways to do things in rocketry, most of them will work fine. This is just one of the simplest. I'm sure as you progress up the ladder you will also discover this. Not in any way saying my way is "better" just offering a viable solution to the problem.

If by "normal" you mean using one side and gluing tubes on sled to slide on rod, just modify it & make it so. But isn't that defeating your purpose of "adding weight".....free floating sled adds none.

Less is more.

The above was used in a rocket many years ago, you are correct in fact, about today and things being smaller...I just didn't have newer pics on file.

Today I use just one side and this lets me attach this sled to ones in larger rockets by just 4 screws making switching between several rockets a breeze.

In essence moving the loaded sled to another blank one in larger airframe. Takes about 2 minutes. [piggy back them]
 
So basically this but with the aluminum where the steel threaded rod is. Just tap the ends to receive the nut. Mill a flat section length wise the size of the Sled. And tap some smaller holes down the length to screw the fiberglass sled to. I intend to do some weight testing to see how much static and impulse load (a tug) the rod can handle. What Max forces would be put on these two 'i' hooks?

Follow Jim's advice. I converted an Aerotech HV Arcas (yeah the kit with plastic fins) to dual deploy by your suggested method. I turned the provided tube coupler into an ebay and ran a single theaded rod down the middle. I bought some eyenuts from
3 Dogs Rocketry when they came out with them (now OOP) and screw 'em on with blue (reversible) thread locker the night before a launch. I use one of Adrian's magnetic switches so the only thing seen on the outside is the static port. I turn the Adept 22 on with the magnet. Jim is right, there is a lot of wasted space in there that is unavoidable. For a small project like I did without a tracker it's workable.

I modified the motor mount with plywood rings so I could use an RMS motor with a retainer. Flies great on an H128 to 1400' or so. Great demonstration rocket for following the dual deploy process for lay observers. I did an H165 at the last MWP and there was a "burble" in the flight path on the way up. I had a feeling that the "flutterbug" had bit and I was right when I picked up the rocket on recovery. There's a transverse crack on one fin that was easily repairable so she'll fly again. Will stick with the H128.

You'll be better off with two all threads in your ebay. If you are going to hammer it with J's, think about tracking options. Mine has disappeared and I knew full well that the flight was nominal by the altitude readings on the APRS radio screen and position.
Only .85 mile away and nobody could see it coming in under the main chute. Kurt
 
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Uhhhhhhh Jim, where do you stick the tracker?:wink: Kurt

On the shock cord mostly, that way at apogee when you have separation, the signal jumps and you know separation occurred. Nice when you can't see it. The way I show, with newer electronics , allows for much more room....enough for small tracker in bay. Then you always have that nice big empty space in the NC for trackers too.

Why not use a single big loop?

Much simpler to balance between the 2, then just tie an overhand knot, making loop in end.
If one side fails, you still have the other.

Once again....many ways to do stuff...some are just easier, not necessarily better.
 
OK.... want a Av-bay that resembles a cave?
Here's how it's been updated, same bay, only now.

No vent band....less weight. Use 1/2 hole method for switch or arming wire.
sled is now 1/3 size of previous.....less weight.
Aluminum caps, hollowed out.......less weight

Threaded charge holders replace nuts, washers, to hold caps on....less weight.
Flying only one altimeter. Replace charge holder with nut...........less weight.

I can still get 2 sleds in if needed, other one goes on second tie rod.

With only one alt its a cave in there, enough room for almost any tracker .

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TY, that's a pretty AV bay btw but I get how to do a normal sled, I just don't want the weight. steel rod is heavy. With the new smaller Strattologgers and Lipos, space really won't be a big deal.
I would use carbon fiber arrows (they are cheap) but I don't have any confident way to mechanically link the two ends besides epoxy.
I don't know why people still use 9vs They take up so much room. I'm just curious if anybody else has done this and/or knows what forces to expect so I can test it for peace of mind.

WarnerR turned me on to substituting aluminum all thread for the steel ..it save some weight.

Kenny
 
So just a mock up after trying my hand at taping some aluminum rod and a cable ferrule.
By offsetting, it saves any space lost by a centered rod.

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Much simpler to balance between the 2, then just tie an overhand knot, making loop in end.
If one side fails, you still have the other.

Once again....many ways to do stuff...some are just easier, not necessarily better.

That is a good point, my one big loop has no redundancy. Here is a neat trick climbers use to get both a balanced load and redundant closure, though it will take twice as much kevlar -
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Basically you make one big loop, but figure 8, and tie in to the cross rather than simply over both portions. Of course this only helps for anchor failure, not failure of the kevlar itself.
 
So after much deliberation I have decided to do this the "normal" way. I wracked my brain with different designs. The one posted earlier would have worked, but ultimately wasn't strong enough. I would have still rather done one rod down the middle, but the bulk plates were pre-drilled in the center and I didn't want another hole. It was just too much extra work to try and offset one rod down the middle. If I ever make my own bulks plates though I'm doing to go that route.

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The two Stratologgers CFs and LiPos will fit in here with TONS of space to spare for a tracker transmitter as well. Down the road I want to mount my Mobius in there too. There will be plenty of room for that as well. With taking the circuit board out of the case and using the extra long ribbon cable mod I can put the lens pretty much anywhere inside.

That's it for today. Tomorrow should entail mounting threaded rod into the nosecone via the "Vern Knowles Method" to support my experimental 900MHz Xbee GPS Telemetry. I need most of the entire nose cone to fit the whip antenna. It works on the bench just fine, real world testing on the other hand is another animal entirely. I do however want the transmitter in the composite nosecone vs the AV bay as I believe the carbon in the body tube may interfere with the signal. Again, some in the field testing is in order to see if this is the case or not. I guess maybe I should start a separate thread on my telemetry stuff in the electronics section.
:eyeroll:
 
uh, how do you put it together and take it apart if both bulkplates are bolted to the sled?
 
uh, how do you put it together and take it apart if both bulkplates are bolted to the sled?

One side of the 6-32 rod is threaded into the bulk plate, the other is not so I can slide it on. both ends will be washer/lockwasher and the "stationary" end will be thread locked. Sorry I didn't have the nuts on when I took the picture. I had to grind one side of the 1/4" nut for the eye bolt on the inside just a hair to butt up against the aluminum "L" bar. One will have to be epoxied in place so I can tighten it down with washer and lock washer on the outside. The eye bolts will also be shorter most likely.
 
Uhhhhhhh Jim, where do you stick the tracker?:wink: The shockcord? Whenever I stick J's in mine it disappears. If it weren't for the Beeline GPS tracker that rides with the Raven II I would have lost mine three times. Very likely it would have been a permanent loss without the Beeline. Kurt

Kurt, I would make a second bay in the nosecone. That is where most of my trackers go these days.
 
Kurt, I would make a second bay in the nosecone. That is where most of my trackers go these days.

Not much room in a WMJr nosecone for an APRS tracker. The Beeline GPS sits forward in the avionics bay with a Raven II behind it below on the sled. A form fit hole for the antenna is drilled in the forward bulkhead and a heavy cardboard tube (actually the cardboard tube the AT igniters come in) wrapped in duct tape for flash protection, stents the antenna so the main chute doesn't smash it down. Some clay helps seal the hole and it works very well.

My larger rockets have the N/C mounted trackers. Best place for them I agree but tougher for the small stuff. Kurt
 
Did the studs for the nose cone tracking bay today.
Should be plenty of room.

I tacked the nuts down with some CA.
Used some Colloidal Silica to stiffen up the epoxy and fill in the gap
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Drenched some strips with nothing added to some epoxy and pressed into place.
Tightened it up with a popsicle stick.
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Lol... I was attempting to sift out tiny lumps in the coloidial silica. It was a less than useful approach to say the least.
 
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