L3 by Proxy. Anyone?

I don't know if this would even be ethical or approved of but here is a proposal:

I am not L3 certified (I am L2 certified) but have had an L3 rocket in mind to build for some time now. It is an upscaled version of a proven rocket that I have already upscaled 3 times in 3 different sizes, my most recent being an L2 version whuch I have flown successfully on an L2200, three times. All of these up scales I have built and flown are very stable and very impressive to see, even if I do say so myself.

If I were to go one bigger, would anyone be willing to use his or her L3 credential to make the purchase of the reload which I would pay for, build the motor, then fly the rocket that I would build? You would have any and all detail and construction plans, including Rocksim files etc. before putting your L3 on the line, so to speak but seriously as I said, this is a very nice, stable rocket.

There are posts and build threads of previous versions available here on TRF if interested.

I'm a little confused as to why you'd want to do this. Why not just do your level 3 with the rocket since you have yet to build it?

rocketgeek101 said:

I'm a little confused as to why you'd want to do this. Why not just do your level 3 with the rocket since you have yet to build it?

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I hate research and writing papers. I guess college did that to me.
And there really isn't a local NAR L3CC.

Besides that, nothing but money.

I don't see why not. It the exact thing all the young ones are doing with their large projects.

Well I would say just do the L3 cert. You are infesting the moneys..

As for the local L3CC member, most of it can be done over the phone except for the flight.
The Paper work isn't that bad, so only as your L3CC is happy you are good to go.
So you just have to take your rocket to flight with a L3CC, maybe they will come to you. You never know.

I'm currently working on my level 3. I send pics and design to TAP'S via email. One of them will meet me at the launch and check the rocket before flight.
I think L3 is easier than L2 (no test to study for) If you're going to be doing the work, find a TAP and get your L3.
Remember, you can't certify on a rocket already built. So if you don't use this build to get certified, it can't be used after its flown on someone else's credentials.
Good luck with either choice

Can you not just a L3 motor? Seams you can buy all lost anything everything to blow up kill and destroy the world in America. If it helps the UK no longer has any legal rules in place for it. Sellers discretion now

The most incoherent statement I've ever seen on TRF.
No idea what you are trying to say???


He wants to team up with an L3 certified flyer to fly a bigger upscale of his proven design.
Which he doesn't want to go through the L3 process in order to fly it.

JD

Pyropetepete said:

Can you not just a L3 motor? Seams you can buy all lost anything everything to blow up kill and destroy the world in America. If it helps the UK no longer has any legal rules in place for it. Sellers discretion now

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Let me translate that for you: Can you not just buy an L3 motor without certification? It seems you can buy almost anything and everything to blow up, kill, and destroy the world in America. By comparison, the UK no longer have restrictions in place on motor sales. Sellers may sell to whomever, at their discretion. Peace out... er, I mean cheers!

JDcluster said:

The most incoherent statement I've ever seen on TRF.
No idea what you are trying to say???


He wants to team up with an L3 certified flyer to fly a bigger upscale of his proven design.
Which he doesn't want to go through the L3 process in order to fly it.

JD

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You can do a group project with someone L3 certified.

Pyropetepete said:

Can you not just a L3 motor? Seams you can buy all lost anything everything to blow up kill and destroy the world in America. If it helps the UK no longer has any legal rules in place for it. Sellers discretion now

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Sorry, but you are mistaken. The local food store doesn't carry Dynamite.... neither does Walmart.


JD

MarkH said:

Let me translate that for you: Can you not just buy an L3 motor without certification? It seems you can buy almost anything and everything to blow up, kill, and destroy the world in America. By comparison, the UK no longer have restrictions in place on motor sales. Sellers may sell to whomever, at their discretion. Peace out... er, I mean cheers!

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Can you not just a L3 motor? Seams, you can buy all, lost, anything, everything to blow up kill, and destroy the world in America. If it helps the UK, no longer has any legal rules in place for it. Sellers discretion now

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Due to the cancerous amount of errors in this post, I am forced to come up with my own translation.

First off, how do you level 3 motor?
Your next sentence...

Seams, you can buy all, lost, anything, everything to blow up kill, and destroy the world in America.

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This sentence seems that you are using a noun of direct address to a person named "Seams". You are telling him you can buy everything in the following list:
1. all
2. lost
3. everything to blow up kill (what did this guy named "Kill" do wrong?)
4. and destroy the world in America.


OK.... last sentence.


I was forced to put in my own commas.

If it helps the UK, no longer has any legal rules in place for it.

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This means some guy named "no longer" has no legal rules in place, and this helps the UK.


And I can't even on your last sentence. Heck. This image applies to your entire post:







Cheers!

The other drawback to this scenario is that if you launch at an organized event, you'll need your L3 proxy there to be the "owner" of the rocket. The RSO won't let you launch an L3 rocket if you're not L3 or certifying. While you don't necessarily have to launch at an organized event, it's probably challenging to get an appropriate waiver elsewhere. So at that point, you may as well join/lead a group project or just get your L3 cert yourself.

I think you should do it as your L3.

PyroPetePete: That is the most brilliantly incoherent thing I have ever read. Reminds me of this ad:

[video=youtube;1m3PGdAsD1c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m3PGdAsD1c[/video]

gary7 said:

I don't know if this would even be ethical or approved of but here is a proposal:

I am not L3 certified (I am L2 certified) but have had an L3 rocket in mind to build for some time now. It is an upscaled version of a proven rocket that I have already upscaled 3 times in 3 different sizes, my most recent being an L2 version whuch I have flown successfully on an L2200, three times. All of these up scales I have built and flown are very stable and very impressive to see, even if I do say so myself.

If I were to go one bigger, would anyone be willing to use his or her L3 credential to make the purchase of the reload which I would pay for, build the motor, then fly the rocket that I would build? You would have any and all detail and construction plans, including Rocksim files etc. before putting your L3 on the line, so to speak but seriously as I said, this is a very nice, stable rocket.

There are posts and build threads of previous versions available here on TRF if interested.

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If you just want an L3 to fly your rocket, that's doable. I believe Steve Eves built the Saturn V and later on went through the formality of obtaining an L3 with another project. As long as an L3 takes responsibility for the flight, it can be done and there's nothing unethical about it. That said, you shouldn't expect to gain certification in this manner. If one builds a project, there's nothing wrong with having an L3 fly it informally with an M motor. If the candidate then maticulates with the appropriate paperwork and makes a powered flight on their own with the same rocket, again, there's nothing wrong with that. Now I do agree with the poster that states if you go through making the project and feel confident with it, why not just do the flight yourself and get certified? But then again, if the builder just wants to see "his/her" rocket fly with a high-powered motor, if they can get an L3 to take responsibility for the flight, that's one way to see the rocket fly without "paperwork". Kurt

blackbrandt said:

Where does it say that the person signing off a flight has to be the owner of an event?

Jim Scarpine is signing off a L3 sized flight (Our Children's Future) at LDRS (for 4 minors), and he sure as heck isn't the owner of the event.

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Coherent writing and reading comprehension seem to be an issue in this thread.

blackbrandt said:

Where does it say that the person signing off a flight has to be the owner of an event?

Jim Scarpine is signing off a L3 sized flight (Our Children's Future) at LDRS (for 4 minors), and he sure as heck isn't the owner of the event.

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Matt... he said owner of the rocket... not event...

I thought I read something wrong.

blackbrandt said:

I thought I read something wrong.

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You did, read something wrong.

hahahahahahahahahh

Now dis tread gotta tak da cake............

dis 1's da winna fer sur now.......
no ever es gona beet dit on evea..........
der ic somtin rong wit all yu guyc fr sur......

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hey,,,
at least i can spell hahahahahahahahah write..........

Teddy

I'll fly it.


Lets do it!!

GRIFFIN said:

I'll fly it.


Lets do it!!

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#1: So, I got at least one personal note from an L3 certified flyer and now this public volunteer. But you guys really don't even know me or what my previous work is. I am flattered. (Or should I be concerned?) Wouldn't you even want to have a hint of an idea of what it is I want to build and fly?

BTW, in all seriousness, thanks Griffin!!!!

#2: For those of you who have recommended that I just get my L3 with this rocket, the rocket I am thinking about is a very, very complicated build. It would be enough of a challenge (translated:headache) getting my L3 with a very simple build, let alone the project I have in mind.

gary7 said:

#1: So, I got at least one personal note from an L3 certified flyer and now this public volunteer. But you guys really don't even know me or what my previous work is. I am flattered. (Or should I be concerned?) Wouldn't you even want to have a hint of an idea of what it is I want to build and fly?

BTW, in all seriousness, thanks Griffin!!!!

#2: For those of you who have recommended that I just get my L3 with this rocket, the rocket I am thinking about is a very, very complicated build. It would be enough of a challenge (translated:headache) getting my L3 with a very simple build, let alone the project I have in mind.

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More power to you Gary! And groove-out baby! 🙏

This would be the project.

You've already flown the L2200 which is nearly an M, and there are 3 Ms availble in the 75/5120 case. The M1500 is a lower thrust version of the L2200. I'm sure you already know that. So if you just wanted to launch an M, it'd be no problem with the rocket you have.

But it sounds like you just want to do a bigger version, in which case you need a bigger motor. Sounds like fun.

JDcluster said:

Sorry, but you are mistaken. The local food store doesn't carry Dynamite.... neither does Walmart.


JD

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To be fair, you can go to Cabelas, buy a certain (nope, not saying which) fuel tablets and produce RDX with minimal effort - even when you make the other stuff you need after a short visit to the lawn care department of your local Lowes store.

Dynamite isn't much harder. Don't even get me started on what you can do with sugar alcohols like xylitol...

I just would say: don't try, chances are that you lack the applicable energetic chemistry skills... or permits.

gary7 said:

If I were to go one bigger, would anyone be willing to use his or her L3 credential to make the purchase of the reload which I would pay for, build the motor, then fly the rocket that I would build? You would have any and all detail and construction plans, including Rocksim files etc. before putting your L3 on the line, so to speak but seriously as I said, this is a very nice, stable rocket.

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The amount of work to prove to someone it's safe to fly.... isn't all that much less than what it would take to just get the L3....

But as others have said and offered... someone else can fly it.

DizWolf said:

The amount of work to prove to someone it's safe to fly.... isn't all that much less than what it would take to just get the L3....

But as others have said and offered... someone else can fly it.

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I disagree, the paperwork and putting down what type of stainless steel is used in the bulkhead screws that some TAPS/L3CC people might pimp a candidate on is a real PITA. Plus, "How do you really know that parachute is REALLY adequate?" questions can perturb.

I imagine Gary could show the rockets features to a prospective sponsor, from nose to tail, in 20 minutes that would satisfy them and allow him to see his rocket flown quickly on the large motor. If he wants to go through the hassle of the paperwork, he could approach the appropriate people and do a flight on his own with the same rocket at his convenience, at a later date. But, as he said, the rocket
was a complex construction task and sticking on to "acceptable" paperwork could be a PITA to him. Kurt