Loki Research 2015

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I've just added the following to the Loki Research home page.

For about the past 3 years, Loki Research nozzles have been delivered to customers with the entrance and exit cones polished at no extra charge. For the most part, this was done so that customers could physically see the superior quality of Loki graphite, and so that they could experience the ease of cleaning metal slag off these polished surfaces first hand for themselves. The ease of cleaning and the time it saves customers in cleaning their nozzles for another flight has always been the main intent of polishing each nozzle. However, polishing each nozzle has always been a time consuming manual process, especially when a large number of custom throat nozzle sizes need to be finished.

As material costs rise and time constraints increase each year, I need to make a change and begin charging for this service. This is necessary to cover the costs of time and materials for this extra service, and to help fill orders in a timely manner as well.

All Loki Research complete motor hardware nozzles and individual nozzles will now be sold standard with an un-polished finish. All nozzles will be finished the same as before otherwise. A “Nozzle Polishing” upgrade is now available at the bottom of each hardware page. Simply add one to your shopping cart for each nozzle you wish to have polished with your order.
 
Sorry Scott, but when I read or think about "Nozzle Polishing Service", I get the giggles :facepalm:.

At this point we should be glad this is not N3RD. The mayhem would be spectacular. :neener:
 
Glad I wasn't the only one who was thinking along those lines. Oh the jokes I am holding back.
 
Isn't it illegal to pay for such a service?

Do we have to pay for the motel room?
 
I've just added the following to the Loki Research home page.

For about the past 3 years, Loki Research nozzles have been delivered to customers with the entrance and exit cones polished at no extra charge. For the most part, this was done so that customers could physically see the superior quality of Loki graphite, and so that they could experience the ease of cleaning metal slag off these polished surfaces first hand for themselves. The ease of cleaning and the time it saves customers in cleaning their nozzles for another flight has always been the main intent of polishing each nozzle. However, polishing each nozzle has always been a time consuming manual process, especially when a large number of custom throat nozzle sizes need to be finished.

As material costs rise and time constraints increase each year, I need to make a change and begin charging for this service. This is necessary to cover the costs of time and materials for this extra service, and to help fill orders in a timely manner as well.

All Loki Research complete motor hardware nozzles and individual nozzles will now be sold standard with an un-polished finish. All nozzles will be finished the same as before otherwise. A “Nozzle Polishing” upgrade is now available at the bottom of each hardware page. Simply add one to your shopping cart for each nozzle you wish to have polished with your order.

Ummmmm, You could consider posting instructions on your site as to how a do-it-yourselfer might be able to accomplish the process. Would save you the time for more important tasks and the customer a little money. It could be considered "goodwill" information too. Kurt
 
Al, this is why your comment got no response from me. ;-)

Kurt, without a lathe, customers won't be able to effectively polish the surfaces of the "graphite" (guys).
Those with a lathe would be able to figure it out pretty quickly. I don't know of any way in which someone could do what I do by hand, or get it too much smoother than what basic lathe machining finish would.

To add from another post I made in the research section when asked about cleaning nozzles with vinegar & water....

Graphite is a porous material and its porosity varies by the grade being used. We use graphite for nozzles because of its ability to withstand extreme temperatures without eroding away to any significant degree. We do however reuse these nozzles and eventually, they do erode. They erode because the graphite is oxidized. Factors that contribute to graphite oxidation are temperature and surface area. Impurities in graphite will lower its oxidation temperature. Soaking your graphite in any solution which contains contaminants, be it vinegar or the gunk that it's cleaning off, could become trapped inside the pores of the graphite, thus lowering its oxidation temperature.

The grade I currently use has a porosity that is lower than average, although if you want to spend a lot more money, there are grades that are even lower. There are also rocket nozzles out there made from grades that have higher porosity and could trap more contaminants, although they may very well have more in the raw material to begin with which is likely a reflection of the price to begin with. I could easily sell a less expensive grade at a lower price, but doing things because it is first inexpensive is not on the list of goals at Loki Research. My original intent on using low porosity graphite was to help make it easier to clean since there would be less surface area for the slag to grab a hold of. I knew this would not come cheap. However, there is another benefit.

I emailed one of the sales engineers at my supplier about this yesterday. This is a quote from his response.
"Reducing the surface area will reduce the oxidation of graphite. Impurities in the graphite can accelerate the oxidation. I've never heard of using diluted vinegar to clean graphite. I assume that the scale on the nozzle is caustic or basic in nature and would react to the mild acid. I would say that as long as the nozzle is clean and totally dry, there shouldn't be a problem. I would re-polish the nozzle after this procedure."
(bold is mine)

From a previous email he had sent me on another topic in March of 2013. - "The only way to retard oxidation is to reduce the surface area being attack or eliminate the contaminates in the graphite. To eliminate the impurities, you would need to purify the graphite. This would be cost prohibitive in you case."

At the time, it didn't click in my head about what I was really doing by polishing the graphite. I didn't put 2 & 2 together, not until the question was posed the other day in this thread. (THANK YOU!) It seems that polishing the graphite has a benefit that might be more important than the ease of removing slag. It reduces the surface area and thus oxidation of the graphite.

Now the next question makes me ask, which came first, the chicken or the egg?
Which would leave more contaminates on/in the surface of graphite? Cleaning it off with a razor blade and rubbing off all the soot with a rag, or cleaning it in a vinegar/water solution and rinsing it really well? Honestly, I don't really know now, but I have not had any problem cleaning any size Loki nozzle without the use of any kind of liquid solution. The easiest to clean is Loki Blue. The last M-2550 nozzle I cleaned was done with my fingernails and a rag. Obviously if you're planning on flying the nozzle at a launch more than once, there is no time for letting it soak in vinegar and water.
 
Ever have one of those day where you just really love your job?

Today was one of those days. :)
 
I was trying to get a new 38mm nozzle size figured out so I could stop having to open up the exit of the stock #19 nozzles in making #28's. I have a nozzle order I've got to get in and I didn't want to simply make #28 nozzles since I knew I'd be wanting a new size for the 38/1200 Loki Red. Well I had cast up 2 sticks of propellant back in November for another 38/1200 red test. It was a beautiful, sunny 55 degree day, so I had to put a few things off before the big freeze sets in for the next week or so. I cut up the propellant into 5 grains, all but the bottom 3.25" was 5/16" cores.

I knew I'd have a healthy start up spike to deal with so I opted for a #25 throat. 668.4g of propellant netted me a rough 1,422Ns K-600. The case stayed under 220C. The XX liner looked great. The nozzle looked great. The chamber pressure looked great. Everything looked great. Even the 6" x 1/4" wall tubing that came in today looked incredibly great, some of the nicest I've seen.

It was simply a great day. :) The only down side was my work log got backed up another day.
Tomorrow, I get to freeze my butt off again while I box some orders. Not so great. The freezing part that is. It'll be a high of 20F. Yea, I know, it's a lot colder in MI. ;-)

K_600_LR.jpg

The end of the case looks funny, it's just tape that held the igniter in place. Oh, before anyone asks, I'll have to wait and see how much red propellant I have to make on my next batch before I know if I can make a few of these for TMT. It's going to be several months though so don't sit around waiting on it. Just know that the motor design is now done. The next hurdle when time allows is certification testing and production. Hopefully that will be done before AirFest.
 
WOW what a beast of a 38 :drool: Hope it works out and a few fly at Airfest.

My motivation falls in direct proportion with temperature. I'm feeling some dread also, I work inside a perfect 70 degree, near zero humidity lab 40-44 weeks a year, this isn't one of those weeks and I'm REALLY not looking forward to the second snowstorm since Monday working until sometime Sunday. Still the last few post, and that terrific picture made my day.

(AVOIDING a shiny nozzle joke) :marshmallow:
 
Nice that's a lot of red out of a 38mm motor! How long was the burn?


TA
 
Burn time was about 2.35 seconds knocking 5% of full thrust off the end. That was also at a propellant temp of about 90F. It was at 92 before I brought it outside. Full thrust begins to tail off at about 1.25 seconds I think. I'll post the thrust curve later.

Cory, I might be cold now but come spring time, I'll be enjoying the weather and loving it! I've mostly always held jobs where I got to work outside at least 30-50% of the time or more. I had a desk job once, stuck in a cubicle for 6 months and I absolutely abhorred it. I'll take nature and the outdoors any time. I will admit though, I do get tired of putting on 26lbs of clothing to stay warm on days like today.
 
Here's a smoothed over thrust curve from John DeMar's excellent ThrustCurveTool program.

38_1200_5g_25_SmlCore_90F.jpg

Looking at the curves alone, it's almost hard to tell which one is which. Scale up, scale down, it all works out the same. ;-)

LR_54_4000_pt6659_80F.jpg
 
Al, this is why your comment got no response from me. ;-)

Kurt, without a lathe, customers won't be able to effectively polish the surfaces of the "graphite" (guys).
Those with a lathe would be able to figure it out pretty quickly. I don't know of any way in which someone could do what I do by hand, or get it too much smoother than what basic lathe machining finish would.

Ewwww. K. Scott. Thanks for the response. I should have figured out that such a very nice symmetrical result would require a mechanical device. Best, Kurt
 
I wanted to share these great photos of Clay Reynolds level 3 attempt on a Loki Research M-900 Loki Red. Unfortunately, the electronics deployed early, a few seconds after motor burn out. The rocket, One-X is 6 feet tall, 5.5" in diameter and weighed 26lbs on the pad. The photos (beautiful) were taken by Gerald Meux. Thank you both!

Clay Reynolds_M900_1.1.jpg

Clay Reynolds_M900_2.2.jpg

Clay Reynolds_M900_3.3.jpg

Also, my good friend Paul Yarnold re-certified L3 last year at MWP on an M-900 in a MD rocket he calls "The Son of 3-Bagger" for a picture perfect flight. Another old friend, Chuck Haskin shot some great video of the successful flight. Thank you both as well! Heh heh, I can hear "Front Page" Swindler in the background.

[video=youtube;W7KfrmFc3wo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7KfrmFc3wo"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7KfrmFc3wo[/video]

Soon, I hope we'll all be seeing some new photos and videos of the New 54mm line up of Loki Red propellant, including the incredible 3,708Ns L-1040.
Oh yeah, word also has it that the first "solo" customer flight of the 4,802Ns 54/4000 L-2050 Loki White in an extended 3" diameter Punisher will happen this weekend. I'll be anxious to see some photos of that as well!
 
Last edited:
Well the L2050 did fly. Motor performed great. Unfortunately there was no apogee event. Main deployed and zippered the nosecone, rest buried in:( will certainly try this again when replacement parts are acquired.
 
I wanted to share these great photos of Clay Reynolds level 3 attempt on a Loki Research M-900 Loki Red. Unfortunately, the electronics deployed early, a few seconds after motor burn out. The rocket, One-X is 6 feet tall, 5.5" in diameter and weighed 26lbs on the pad. The photos (beautiful) were taken by Gerald Meux. Thank you both!

View attachment 259303

View attachment 259304

View attachment 259305
My video of the flight:

[video=youtube;N7zm4OJTxnc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7zm4OJTxnc[/video]

Alex
 
Mark, I forgot to publicly thank you for getting those two motors posted. Too many emails behind the scenes. ;-) Thank you :)

To add to the Loki Red theme in the last few posts, I realized the other day that I had never posted the last test firing I did of the L-1040 Loki Red. This test was done in the same configuration as the TMT test motors, only it used an older style Loki case made from Schedule 80 pipe. If anything, my only complaint with Loki Red is that it is the hardest to light of all the Loki Research propellants.

Be sure to use a healthy igniter and to secure it properly to the back of the motor with a piece of tape so it doesn't get spit out as you can see happening in this video. If an igniter gets spit part way down the motors core and lights it in the middle of the motor, it can be very bad. The motor may not produce enough thrust to get safely off the pad, or it may just sit there and spew flames out the back end and go no where. Of all the Loki Red tests I have done, I have only had one of two things happen. The motor either spits the igniter out with a chuff and doesn't light, or it has one or two chuffs while spitting the igniter out and then lights for a very smooth burn. You'll note I only have tape holding the leads down to the wood at the back of the motor. I should have put a 1" wide piece of masking tape directly across the back of the nozzle to hold it in place, leaving the other portion of the nozzle exit free & open.

Watch it in HD for the best picture.
[video=youtube;2oYU6uuk8ZY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oYU6uuk8ZY[/video]

I just got 4 more of these L-1040's cast up this week in a 37.5kg batch of Loki Red, along with 8 - J-300's, 6 - K-527's, almost 11 feet of 76mm grains and 5 feet of 38mm. It will be a while before it is completely processes and ready to ship, but if you have been waiting on one of these loads, you won't have to wait on them much longer.
 
VERY nice Dave! :)
Thank you

I've been meaning to post this one, but we can't get the photographers name or original at the moment.

Andrew Diehl and Brian Wadsley flew a 38/1200 K-1127 at Red Glare in a minimum diameter rocket with a 3-D printed fin can. The fin can worked but the airframe gave out.
Here's an excellent photo but I don't know the photographers name.
image282.html

https://rocketrylive.com/RedGlare17/imgpages/image282.html

And thank you to Peter Abresch Jr. for making a great attempt of capturing video of it.
[video=youtube;7EWY2aWSnlY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EWY2aWSnlY[/video]
 
Last edited:
VERY nice Dave! :)
Thank you

I've been meaning to post this one, but we can't get the photographers name or original at the moment.

Andrew Diehl and Brian Wadsley flew a 38/1200 K-1127 at Red Glare in a minimum diameter rocket with a 3-D printed fin can. The fin can worked but the airframe gave out.
Here's an excellent photo but I don't know the photographers name.
image282.html

https://rocketrylive.com/RedGlare17/imgpages/image282.html

And thank you to Peter Abresch Jr. for making a great attempt of capturing video of it.
[video=youtube;7EWY2aWSnlY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EWY2aWSnlY[/video]


Very nice! I'll be flying an all carbon 38mm md at LDRS on the new K1127!! Should be a heck of a flight.
 
The K-1127 is one hell of a motor and all that fun packed in 38mm. I see several more of those in my future.
 
To say the least my Loki 76/6000 case was pretty beat up after having my L3 come in hot from around 6,000 ft, so I decided to pressure test my case with a sugar reload before I even considered flying it again.
[video=youtube;bhvPC2G5TwQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhvPC2G5TwQ&feature=youtu.be[/video]
I was half expecting a CATO, but the case held together without a problem. Motor worked out to be around a L1000, thanks for making such great cases Scott!

Clay
L2 15214
 
Clay,

That's good to know for EX use on the 6000 case. If you know what the Pc was on that test, I could tell you if it was within the range to expect on given commercial reload. Send me an email if you have that data. Good looking test for a sugar motor.
 
There was a very low ceiling early today. What to do.... Loki G69 to the rescue!
DSC_0377s.jpgDSC_0378s.jpg
 
Thanks for posting the pics Andy. :)

I wanted to let people know that I've been making what I think are a lot of really great changes to the Loki Research Website. I hope everyone agrees. I'm not finished with it, there are still a few bugs for Greg Deputy to work out, and realize that for me, a "complete" website update is a never ending process because there is simply too much work do get done every week.

Anyway, I've been taking some ques from peoples comments I have read here and there about the things they think are lacking in the competitions websites. I've taken the time this past week to make some changes that I hope will help out both myself and my customers. Please take a look at the products section of the website. If the product text is in yellow, then it's a clickable link for more information and/or photos/videos of that product.

Some of the pages that are linked might have several large photos to upload, but you don't have to click them in order to use the site and purchase Loki Research products. So, hopefully the upload time won't be an issue for most people. As you can see, I've still got some gaps to fill in the product photos and the reload photos, and well that's up to you my customers to get done. ;-) So go fly a Loki reload, get a few stunning shots of the flight and I'll likely put them up on the website, now that I have the ability to do so. (Andy, you made a few pages in there, thank you) Hopefully these changes will help answer more of the customers questions, point them in the right direction and make it easier for them to purchase more Loki Research products.

I'd like to thank Greg Deputy for his web skills and service in getting the website admin area where it is right now. I am a very happy customer Greg. :) Thank you!

If you have some feedback you feel I should hear, please make a comment or send me an email. No PM's please. It's Scott (at)(the company name) dot com.


Thanks,
 
WOOT! made the G80 page :) Hopefully I'll have some K1127 shots for you this weekend if the stars align... :)
 
Back
Top