Red Arrow Hobbies - still in business or not?

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Onebadhawk
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rharshberger said:
Most people who have issues with Red Arrow Hobbies appear to be buying via the internet, people without issues seem to be the ones buying at his brick and mortar store or at launches. Dave may be a great guy, but his business will go so much better if he improves his internet sales and shipping and inventory management. I get that supply problems crop up, I understand backorders, but the vendor needs to notify the customer that the items are backordered so the customer can chose to cancel the order or wait. Its not about the person is about the business, successful businesses have happy customers (except WalMart who everybody seems to hate, even though they only shop at WalMart), good pricing will only get you so far.
Click to expand...

Agreed. My time and aggravation have a price, too. I don't mind spending a few dollars more for a fast, pain-free, well-communicated, rocket purchase.

Yeah, funny. All the Walmart haters just can't stop shopping there.
 
Here ya go... all been discussed before...
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?63797-An-order-from-Red-Arrow-Hobbies

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?65677-Red-Arrow-Hobbies

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?64525-Red-Arrow-Hobbies

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?61606-Vendor-hypocrisy&highlight=Red+Arrow+Hobbies

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?19755-Red-Arrow-Hobbies&highlight=Red+Arrow+Hobbies

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...es-fix-your-phone&highlight=Red+Arrow+Hobbies

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...-Hobbies-let-down&highlight=Red+Arrow+Hobbies

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?21109-RED-ARROW-HOBBIES&highlight=Red+Arrow+Hobbies


Red Arrow Hobbies... ya either love 'em or ya hate 'em...

Either way, YOU WAIT!!

And don't expect much/any communication, either... LOL:)

Later! OL JR :)
 
michigander said:
I have dealt with RAH on site at launches no problems , he is my Loki fix :)

RAH was at December launch with tons of motors I'm sure they are still around

have never done a web order
Click to expand...

Well, honestly-- if you don't get decent service at a LAUNCH when you're face to face with the guy, would you EVER seriously consider doing business with him over the web or by mail??

Not exactly a glowing endorsement...

If I were dealing with a guy at a launch and got lousy service, I wouldn't trade with him again even if he were at EVERY launch...

Guess that's just me though...

Honestly, if you're GOING to be in business, SOME level of customer service is just plain necessary... as is some decent level of communication... IMHO, anyway...

"To each his own" I guess, that and "Caveat Emptor" (let the buyer beware!)

Later! OL JR :)
 
I won a gift certificate from them at NARCON several years ago. I've gotten no reply from them from any email about me trying to redeem it.
 
I ordered a few reloads from him some time ago, and after 3 weeks of waiting I called for a status update. He said my motors were still backordered and should arrive in a week or so. 2 weeks later - nothing. I call again and he told me they still hadn't arrived, at which point I asked for a refund. He said no problem and that he'd take care of it in the next few days. 3 weeks later...nothing. No emails, no phone calls returned. Maybe the credit card dispute got his attention...

Never again, I tell you!
 
Buckeye said:
Wow, that is a new low.
Click to expand...

Technically the transaction is complete- he won the certificate, redemption was implied but never guaranteed...this lawyerin' stuff is easy! :rolleyes:

I've shopped with RAH before, and been mostly satisfied- only LPR stuff. His Builder's Special is amazing, and truly a great value. I really like that his hobbies are my hobbies - Rocketry and Homebrewing, but that doesn't excuse poor service. It's a shame because this is such a small industry, and our options truly are limited. I'm convinced that's why the Walmart haters still shop there, because there is simply no where else to go!
 
soopirV said:
I'm convinced that's why the Walmart haters still shop there, because there is simply no where else to go!
Click to expand...

This may be the case in rural areas, but not in the city or suburbs. I have plenty of options - Kroger, Meijer, Target, Costco, Walgreens, CVS, plus a nice variety of specialty grocers. Plenty of Walmarts by me, too. I just don't like shopping there.

Many of the Walmart hater-shoppers kvetch about anti-union stuff, unfair work practices, animal cruelty, or the demise of Mom and Pop. However, those are other people's problems. The hater-shopper still wants low prices for himself.
 
soopirV said:
I'm convinced that's why the Walmart haters still shop there, because there is simply no where else to go!
Click to expand...

This may be the case in rural areas, but not in the city or suburbs. I have plenty of options - Kroger, Meijer, Target, Costco, Walgreens, CVS, plus a nice variety of specialty grocers. Plenty of Walmarts by me, too. I don't like shopping there.

Many of the Walmart hater-shoppers kvetch about anti-union stuff, unfair work practices, animal cruelty, or the demise of Mom and Pop. However, those are other people's problems. The hater-shopper still wants low prices for himself.
 
luke strawwalker said:
Here ya go... all been discussed before...
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?63797-An-order-from-Red-Arrow-Hobbies

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?65677-Red-Arrow-Hobbies

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?64525-Red-Arrow-Hobbies

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?61606-Vendor-hypocrisy&highlight=Red+Arrow+Hobbies

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?19755-Red-Arrow-Hobbies&highlight=Red+Arrow+Hobbies

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...es-fix-your-phone&highlight=Red+Arrow+Hobbies

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...-Hobbies-let-down&highlight=Red+Arrow+Hobbies

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?21109-RED-ARROW-HOBBIES&highlight=Red+Arrow+Hobbies


Red Arrow Hobbies... ya either love 'em or ya hate 'em...

Either way, YOU WAIT!!

And don't expect much/any communication, either... LOL:)

Later! OL JR :)
Click to expand...

Wow I guess I should've just poked around here a bit before starting a new thread, sorry about that, but I'm new here and failed to do my homework which probably would've made me re-consider placing an order in the first place.

And just an update; I did finally get an e-mail reply that said some items were out of stock, so I requested they ship what they have in stock and refund my Paypal account for the out of stock items. And I did get a follow up e-mail with a USPS shipping notification, but no refund to Paypal yet. Hopefully, I'll have a box on my doorstep soon and a Paypal refund as well?
 
sredlin said:
Wow I guess I should've just poked around here a bit before starting a new thread, sorry about that, but I'm new here and failed to do my homework which probably would've made me re-consider placing an order in the first place.

And just an update; I did finally get an e-mail reply that said some items were out of stock, so I requested they ship what they have in stock and refund my Paypal account for the out of stock items. And I did get a follow up e-mail with a USPS shipping notification, but no refund to Paypal yet. Hopefully, I'll have a box on my doorstep soon and a Paypal refund as well?
Click to expand...

Not a problem... Post what you like! :)

Always good to do some homework before placing an order with someone new if you're not sure... Course if you're like me, your the trusting type and give people the benefit of the doubt... "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on ME!"... that's sorta my motto and sums up my feelings on the subject. I've met Dave; nice enough guy, seems to be tryin' to make a living like the rest of us, not independently wealthy by any stretch (from appearances anyway). I can sorta tell though that he "marches to his own drummer" and you either are okay with that or you're not; either way doesn't particularly make ANY difference to him whatsoever... It's a free country and he can be that way if he wants-- apparently that approach works "well enough" for him or otherwise he'd do something different... The things mentioned in those threads are certainly NOT a 'new development'.

As for the list of links I posted-- I wasn't poking a stick at you, but at some other self-righteous "folks" on here that wanted to take me behind the woodshed for DARING to SUGGEST someone use the search function on the forum to look up more information on a topic... BEFORE I ANSWERED IT ANYWAY... (at least gave the basic information the OP was looking for). Gee, looks like the search function works pretty well if someone actually wants to find something... but it does take a little EFFORT... (again, NONE of this is aimed at YOU for the question asked in this thread... :))

Anyway, here's hopin' that the situation works out for you. I think it'll be okay, but I wouldn't expect any hurry about it whatsoever... that seems to be the pattern...

Later and best of luck! OL JR :)
 
I'm not making excuses for RAH, but come on people, but clue in!

Over the years as a BAR I have ordered several times from RAH. About 10 years ago is when I first discovered them on the web. Even back then the site seemed antiquated. It looks much the same today. So my expectations where not very high to begin with. The thing I have noticed is their prices are pretty dang good and they are still around after a decade of my experience with them.

Last year I ordered a couple of times for motor hardware and gear. Yes it took awhile to get my back-ordered items, but I got them and saved a bundle. I did however go into this purchase knowing I was in for a wait. I called every so often and got updates. No big deal to me.

Would I buy from RAH again? You betcha!

That's my :2:


Jerome
 
JeromeK99 said:
I'm not making excuses for RAH, but come on people, but clue in!

Over the years as a BAR I have ordered several times from RAH. About 10 years ago is when I first discovered them on the web. Even back then the site seemed antiquated. It looks much the same today. So my expectations where not very high to begin with. The thing I have noticed is their prices are pretty dang good and they are still around after a decade of my experience with them.

Last year I ordered a couple of times for motor hardware and gear. Yes it took awhile to get my back-ordered items, but I got them and saved a bundle. I did however go into this purchase knowing I was in for a wait. I called every so often and got updates. No big deal to me.

Would I buy from RAH again? You betcha!

That's my :2:


Jerome
Click to expand...

I think that's the REAL issue here Jerome... expectations versus reality...

I'm not going to condemn or defend Dave for how he does business... and you're right-- it's worked for him and probably still is, because he hasn't upgraded or changed much of anything that I've seen. He's got good prices, but that comes with a price all its own-- you wait and get what you ordered once he finally gets it, because he will hold the order til everything is there to ship. He's not going out of his way to communicate about status or inquiries by all appearances, and just takes a rather lackadaisical, laconic way about everything-- if it works, it works, if not, "oh well".

If someone is willing to have their order handled in this way, then as you pointed out, the savings are pretty good. If, OTOH, someone expects a more "customer service" oriented handling of their order, like MOST online vendors would do, then it's easy to see how they'd be sorely disappointed by the lack of communications, long delays, etc. that sometimes occur due to waiting for stuff to come in before shipping the order, and deciding they'd rather have a refund and would choose not to do business with him in the future...

There's really no "right" decision here for anybody-- it's about about individual expectations and individual priorities as to whether they're pleased with their purchases or not, and whether they'd order from RAH again...

To each his own! OL JR :)
 
That's the crux of the biscuit right there. I'll order from Dave again, probably soon. I always give him a call beforehand to check stock, and he's always happy to do so. I've always found him pleasant.
 
Apparently Dave has managed to train enough customers to either 1) call him to verify everything over the phone, or 2) be okay with orders taking months to deliver with no communication from him about why there is a hold up or when to expect delivery. People that are willing to go along with these are keeping him in business.

If that works for him, that's great. When I ordered from his website (I haven't been to it in over a year so I don't know if it's still this way) there was NOTHING that told me to call him and verify things were in stock before ordering, and he didn't mind billing me for things he didn't have and wouldn't have for months. I'm not sure how I was supposed to know how being his customer works which is probably why I failed at it.

That was bad enough, but the worst part was when he vented on his Facebook page about vendors he ordered from not filling orders in a timely manner and screaming that customer service was super important. It was such a hypocritical thing to say that I lost all respect for him.

Don't charge my card for product that you don't have and aren't ready to ship. If you have to wait two months to get it, wait two months to charge me.
Don't expect me to not care about your delays and then publicly flame others for their delays.
Don't ignore multiple emails from me asking about the status of my order.
or
Don't expect me to spend money with you again.
 
Last edited:
I am trained? I believe that to be a personal attack.
 
Chad,

If only people would spend as much time on their rockets as they do on here inserting their so special expertise, I'd enjoy the forum a lot more than I do!


Preston

chadrog said:
I am trained? I believe that to be a personal attack.
Click to expand...
 
Mushtang said:
Apparently Dave has managed to train enough customers to either 1) call him to verify everything over the phone, or 2) be okay with orders taking months to deliver with no communication from him about why there is a hold up or when to expect delivery. People that are willing to go along with these are keeping him in business.

If that works for him, that's great. When I ordered from his website (I haven't been to it in over a year so I don't know if it's still this way) there was NOTHING that told me to call him and verify things were in stock before ordering, and he didn't mind billing me for things he didn't have and wouldn't have for months. I'm not sure how I was supposed to know how being his customer works which is probably why I failed at it.

That was bad enough, but the worst part was when he vented on his Facebook page about vendors he ordered from not filling orders in a timely manner and screaming that customer service was super important. It was such a hypocritical thing to say that I lost all respect for him.

Don't charge my card for product that you don't have and aren't ready to ship. If you have to wait two months to get it, wait two months to charge me.
Don't expect me to not care about your delays and then publicly flame others for their delays.
Don't ignore multiple emails from me asking about the status of my order.
or
Don't expect me to spend money with you again.
Click to expand...

Of the hundreds of posts on the RAH saga, this is the best one. You nailed it, Mushtang! I like your take on the need to be properly trained as his customer.

Given that the guy is clueless about using a webstore and email (mine were never answered, like everybody else), I was surprised to hear that he even has a Facebook page.
 
luke strawwalker said:
Not a problem... Post what you like! :)

Always good to do some homework before placing an order with someone new if you're not sure... Course if you're like me, your the trusting type and give people the benefit of the doubt... "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on ME!"... that's sorta my motto and sums up my feelings on the subject. I've met Dave; nice enough guy, seems to be tryin' to make a living like the rest of us, not independently wealthy by any stretch (from appearances anyway). I can sorta tell though that he "marches to his own drummer" and you either are okay with that or you're not; either way doesn't particularly make ANY difference to him whatsoever... It's a free country and he can be that way if he wants-- apparently that approach works "well enough" for him or otherwise he'd do something different... The things mentioned in those threads are certainly NOT a 'new development'.

As for the list of links I posted-- I wasn't poking a stick at you, but at some other self-righteous "folks" on here that wanted to take me behind the woodshed for DARING to SUGGEST someone use the search function on the forum to look up more information on a topic... BEFORE I ANSWERED IT ANYWAY... (at least gave the basic information the OP was looking for). Gee, looks like the search function works pretty well if someone actually wants to find something... but it does take a little EFFORT... (again, NONE of this is aimed at YOU for the question asked in this thread... :))

Anyway, here's hopin' that the situation works out for you. I think it'll be okay, but I wouldn't expect any hurry about it whatsoever... that seems to be the pattern...

Later and best of luck! OL JR :)
Click to expand...

Luke,

I didn't take anything you posted as a poke at me, I was truly wowed by you showing me all the threads about Red Arrow Hobbies. I am new to this forum and have only dabbled with the search feature a couple times, and didn't really find it all that helpful, but I haven't explored the advanced options yet which are probably the best way to find information quickly.

Anyway, all that aside I did receive a partial shipment today and sent another e-mail requesting a refund for the balance, which is just under $25 so not a huge sum of money to fret over here, but I'd like a refund just the same. I'll probably call tomorrow and see if I can work things out for a refund of the balance, and move on, lesson learned.
 
sredlin said:
Luke,

I didn't take anything you posted as a poke at me, I was truly wowed by you showing me all the threads about Red Arrow Hobbies. I am new to this forum and have only dabbled with the search feature a couple times, and didn't really find it all that helpful, but I haven't explored the advanced options yet which are probably the best way to find information quickly.

Anyway, all that aside I did receive a partial shipment today and sent another e-mail requesting a refund for the balance, which is just under $25 so not a huge sum of money to fret over here, but I'd like a refund just the same. I'll probably call tomorrow and see if I can work things out for a refund of the balance, and move on, lesson learned.
Click to expand...

Glad to hear you're getting some resolution. Just so nobody misunderstands, Dave isn't a crook. I don't think anybody's saying that... I've never heard of anybody getting outright stiffed by RAH. The issue is 1) extremely poor/nonexistent communication and 2) the attitude of "we don't ship the order til I have everything in one box-- even if that means the box sits here half empty for a couple months or so..." I think you'll get your refund. FWIW, IMHO whether its $25 BUCKS or $0.25 CENTS, I personally would EXPECT *my* refund, if it were me... but that's just me. My great-granddad had a reputation-- people said he'd ride his horse all day to collect if you owed him 2 cents, and he'd do the same to pay 2 cents if he owed you. I think that's only right...

As to the search feature... I just typed "Red Arrow Hobbies" in the search field and got nine pages, and then sifted through them glancing at anything that looked promising (threads I remembered where this was discussed) and then cut-n-pasted the links. Took all of about five minutes. I know some folks seem to find the search function to be practically worthless, others seem to have better luck. Can't speak to that. There's always your favorite search engine on the web I guess... Someone posted how to get it to look ONLY in TRF for the relevant search term, but I can't remember how its done. Oh well...

Best of luck to you and welcome to the forum! Hope this stuff has helped you out!
Later! OL JR :)
 
Update: I spoke with Dave on the phone on Fri and he said he would process my refund later that day, but that did not happen, and I'm not real surprised by that after learning from this thread. I'll call again tomorrow, and the next day, and the next... Or maybe I should just start a PayPal dispute now and have them help me get my refund?
 
sredlin said:
Update: I spoke with Dave on the phone on Fri and he said he would process my refund later that day, but that did not happen, and I'm not real surprised by that after learning from this thread. I'll call again tomorrow, and the next day, and the next... Or maybe I should just start a PayPal dispute now and have them help me get my refund?
Click to expand...

Might not be a bad idea, CERTAINLY before the time limit for filing a dispute elapses....

I don't have much tolerance or sympathy for folks who tell you something and then don't follow through...

Good luck! OL JR
 
It seems like everyone has had their say except for Red Arrow so I'm going to lock this. If Dave wants to share his side, just have him PM me and I'll unlock it for him.
 
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