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TopRamen

SA-5
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I got some BT-50 and a plastic Cone the other day. I was wondering if I'de make a tiny 24mm Patriot Clone, but then I read the Thread where the Folks argued about the exact dimensions of the Fin Template for the Alpha. I looked at the design until it grew on me, and decided I'll make one reinforced with lightweight FG Cloth and Tip to Tip, in 24mm.
I'll go grab an extra NC from the Hobby Store so I can make 2 at the same time. One of them will be flying up to the Rocket Gods on a single use Composite Motor. If I get it back it will be cool. The other will fly on an 18 to 24 Adapter before tasting BP C11s and eventually Ds.:clap::D
The project will commence in the next few days.
 
That's neat! I don't think glassing is necessary but definitely more power to you (ha). I really like the classic Alpha design. It's hard enough getting an Alpha back w/a C6-7 let alone anything bigger! Streamer or super small drogue?
 
As one of the arguers over there i will say this only: sod farm and a really shiny streamer!

The closest I have come to doing this is putting an Aerotech SU D10-7 in a ready-to-fly Athena (which uses the Alpha III fin can, has a longer body and uses that much bigger/heavier 50YP nose cone). I put a small, reflective streamer in it and actually got it back. It should've gone to close to 2000 feet. I don't think I was willing to risk an altimeter in it so I don't know for sure.

added:

I'd check stability with a 24mm C11 or D12.....I expect you may need to add some nose ballast. D10s weigh almost exactly the same as C6s so that's a surer bet.
 
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As one of the arguers over there i will say this only: sod farm and a really shiny streamer!

The closest I have come to doing this is putting an Aerotech SU D10-7 in a ready-to-fly Athena (which uses the Alpha III fin can, has a longer body and uses that much bigger/heavier 50YP nose cone). I put a small, reflective streamer in it and actually got it back. It should've gone to close to 2000 feet. I don't think I was willing to risk an altimeter in it so I don't know for sure.

added:

I'd check stability with a 24mm C11 or D12.....I expect you may need to add some nose ballast. D10s weigh almost exactly the same as C6s so that's a surer bet.

I'm a Stability God, and an Expert at adding Nose Weight.
It's only 3 FNC.
 
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I'm actually looking to build a full G powered Alpha upscale. I'm gonna sim it out first. At that power, I may need to use one of the HPR break apart designs.

Any suggestions?
 
I'm actually looking to build a full G powered Alpha upscale. I'm gonna sim it out first. At that power, I may need to use one of the HPR break apart designs.

Any suggestions?

Maybe if you told me what size Body Tube you were going to use I could find you a Thread about doing that. I know there is a Thread called the Alpha Gallery, and in it some folks show off some Alphas that are Maxi-Alpha IIIs and 29mm. That's a BT-80 Size Bird.
 
Got my Pieces Parts made. Just need to paper the Fins prior to glassing and assembly.

24mm Alpha 001.jpg
 
I was initially going to make two of these, but that seems silly, and the Hobby store was closed today, preventing me from getting the second Nose Cone.
I am not trying to replicate or pay homage to the original, and plastic Nose Cone allows me to add the nose weight the same way I always do.
I do have a few different kinds of 18 to 24mm Adapters, so I'll be able to fly this bird on everything from A to F.
 
It will get a Nylon Streamer. I've used Mylar before in this size BT, and had it not even unfurl. I changed the Dimensions, and while it performed better, I still did'nt care for it.
I seem to be having good results with Nylon Rip Stop lately.
I'de prefer "Nose Blow Recovery", but this rocket will be too tiny to see at the altitudes I expect it to go.
 
That's neat! I don't think glassing is necessary but definitely more power to you (ha). I really like the classic Alpha design. It's hard enough getting an Alpha back w/a C6-7 let alone anything bigger! Streamer or super small drogue?

Nothing I do with Rockets is "Necessary", and thus the Hobby interests me.
Streamer/Tracking Powder or Nose Blow/Tracking Powder with Audible Tracking Device, that I can locate with a Parabolic Microphone. A Spotter and Video either way, so the odds of Recovery double with two sets of Eyes plus Video
When I first built my 24mm Crossfire DX, people said that as I feared, it would be something I'de have a hard time recovering consistently, yet that is what I do, and since I've been a BAR, it is my most flown Rocket, next to my Patriot, TLP TAN-SAM, and various Crossfires.
I hope to bring the Alpha to where I brought the Crossfire, but with my new Skill Sets in place.
Granted, it will inevitably result in higher performance, but it will be a fun ride, and if I only have $4-$6 into the Build, I can afford to do it again and again until I become really good at it.:wink:
There is also the fact that if it goes bad, and I lose the Rockets, they are tiny, and unlikely to damage any one or any thing.:)
I'll get some really inexpensive Practice Glassing things while I'm at it and probably learn some finishing skills along the way!:)
 
Nothing I do with Rockets is "Necessary", and thus the Hobby interests me.
Streamer/Tracking Powder or Nose Blow/Tracking Powder with Audible Tracking Device, that I can locate with a Parabolic Microphone. A Spotter and Video either way, so the odds of Recovery double with two sets of Eyes plus Video
When I first built my 24mm Crossfire DX, people said that as I feared, it would be something I'de have a hard time recovering consistently, yet that is what I do, and since I've been a BAR, it is my most flown Rocket, next to my Patriot, TLP TAN-SAM, and various Crossfires.
I hope to bring the Alpha to where I brought the Crossfire, but with my new Skill Sets in place.
Granted, it will inevitably result in higher performance, but it will be a fun ride, and if I only have $4-$6 into the Build, I can afford to do it again and again until I become really good at it.:wink:
There is also the fact that if it goes bad, and I lose the Rockets, they are tiny, and unlikely to damage any one or any thing.:)
I'll get some really inexpensive Practice Glassing things while I'm at it and probably learn some finishing skills along the way!:)

Just so you know:
Alpha's even Alpha IIIs have been flown on D's for decades. Our club used to Open Airshows with a rack of Alpha's in the "power demo" showing the difference in performance of the alpha model with 1/2A through D21 power. Always a great show. Never needed any glassing and most up to B were recovered on the supplied plastic chute. C6 and D21 models came back on competition style 1mil aluminized mylar Streamers. Generally the D21 model would be out of sight for around 8 to 12 seconds before someone in the crowd or range crew would pick it up Way Up there on the way back down.
We later switched to Pratt hobby Super Six kits (cheaper) and altered them to go up to G40's in the same demo set-up. Again No glassing needed.

Nylon streamer may be OK in a very easily seen color but I'd suggest going with Aluminized Mylar to increase your chance of seeing the model coming down.
 
Just so you know:
Alpha's even Alpha IIIs have been flown on D's for decades. Our club used to Open Airshows with a rack of Alpha's in the "power demo" showing the difference in performance of the alpha model with 1/2A through D21 power. Always a great show. Never needed any glassing and most up to B were recovered on the supplied plastic chute. C6 and D21 models came back on competition style 1mil aluminized mylar Streamers. Generally the D21 model would be out of sight for around 8 to 12 seconds before someone in the crowd or range crew would pick it up Way Up there on the way back down.
We later switched to Pratt hobby Super Six kits (cheaper) and altered them to go up to G40's in the same demo set-up. Again No glassing needed.

Nylon streamer may be OK in a very easily seen color but I'd suggest going with Aluminized Mylar to increase your chance of seeing the model coming down.


I assumed that it's been done before, and I never claimed to be breaking new ground here.
I've experimented with Mylar before for streamers in this body tube size and regardless of the different lengths and widths I tried, I did'nt like the way it unfurled. I may make some kind of hybrid streamer of Nylon with a few patches of Space Blanket attached for shiny bits.
Either way, we'll start by flying her with the 18mm stuff and work our way up.
 
I assumed that it's been done before, and I never claimed to be breaking new ground here.
I've experimented with Mylar before for streamers in this body tube size and regardless of the different lengths and widths I tried, I did'nt like the way it unfurled. I may make some kind of hybrid streamer of Nylon with a few patches of Space Blanket attached for shiny bits.
Either way, we'll start by flying her with the 18mm stuff and work our way up.

If you're interested ASP (Aerospace Specialty Products) www.asp-rocketry.com has a 2mil thick 4" wide roll of Aluminized mylar that while too heavy for competition use holds Accordion folds well and is fairly tough. Makes excellent Sport Streamer for Heavier High flying Model rockets.

If you start with a 3/4" or 1" fold they don't that quite as Long to crease as 1/2" folds used on competition models:)
 
Top I think this is probably the first 38mm. super alpha. Does about 4k. on the G-67 or the G-61. You could fly yours on that F-35 you could probably get it close to 4k
 
If you're interested ASP (Aerospace Specialty Products) www.asp-rocketry.com has a 2mil thick 4" wide roll of Aluminized mylar that while too heavy for competition use holds Accordion folds well and is fairly tough. Makes excellent Sport Streamer for Heavier High flying Model rockets.

If you start with a 3/4" or 1" fold they don't that quite as Long to crease as 1/2" folds used on competition models:)


Thanks for the heads up.
I ckecked that out and their prices are good too. I'm going to have to give some of their material a try. Maybe not in this bird right off, but eventually.
 
Somebody took the time to rate this Thread one star, which means I'm doing it right.
I love it when I pi$$ people off with my overbuilding. Those are the kind of folks that remind me why I don't want to join a Club.
I went ahead and voted my Thread 5 Stars.
 
Somebody took the time to rate this Thread one star, which means I'm doing it right.
I love it when I pi$$ people off with my overbuilding. Those are the kind of folks that remind me why I don't want to join a Club.
I went ahead and voted my Thread 5 Stars.

Why make such a fuss over something you haven't even done yet?
 
I also rated the thread 5 stars. I build somewhat differently then Top, but his builds are very high quality and he makes very cool designs. An F44 in this would be really cool, and C11s are great motors for practically any LPR. Any LPR I build these days gets upgraded to 24mm even if it's just to have the option to fly C11s and D12s.
 
Thanks SCrocketfan!
Got my Cloth on there. Went with 2.3oz stuff out of spite.:wink:
JK, I actually just really like working with 2 and 2.3.

GlassClothAlpha 004.jpg
 
Got the excess Glass trimmed away, and sealed the inner wall with Super Thin CA. Before sealing the inner wall, I used Gorilla Brand Super Glue to seal the edges.
This is one of my best layups to date. Working on this small stuff is really helping me get the hang of it and learn the subtleties.:D

FinishedGlassTube 005.jpg
 
My Fins are papered, and sitting on my Granite Surface underneath Books and 30lbs of Weights.:)
I cut the base off of the Cone, leaving about 3/8" of Shoulder, then drilled for holes near the tip for my Toothpicks to go into for anchoring the Nose Weight and Epoxy. I also rounded the inside so it will gladly accept the Bulkhead that will have my Eyebolt for the shock Cord.:)
 
Nice looking build. I'd love to see this on an F44W! How about an E75 or F240 from CTI?

Nate
 
Nice looking build. I'd love to see this on an F44W! How about an E75 or F240 from CTI?

Nate

Thanks!
I'm going to get another Nose Cone next time I go to the Hobby Shop so that I can make another. I'm not L1 Cert so an F240 won't happen, nor would I risk losing a Reloadable Case if I had one.
I will however gladly fly one on the F44-8 Single Use, as even if I lose the Rocket, I'm not out any money accept for the Nose Cone which are $2.99 at the LHS.
It will make for a good video, and it would be truly awesome to recover it.
The one I'm building now will start with the adapter on A power, and go right up to D in my nearby Park. For the F flight Bird, I'm going to have to find a much bigger field and definitely bring Binoculars, 2 Spotters and Tracking Powder. Even then, I may lose it, but it will be worth it for the fun I'll have.
 
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I'm going to get another Nose Cone next time I go to the Hobby Shop so that I can make another. I'm not L1 Cert so an F240 won't happen, nor would I risk losing a Reloadable Case if I had one.
I will however gladly fly one on the F44-8 Single Use, as even if I lose the Rocket, I'm not out any money accept for the Nose Cone which are $2.99 at the LHS.
It will make for a good video, and it would be truly awesome to recover it.
The one I'm building now will start with the adapter on A power, and go right up to D in my nearby Park. For the F flight Bird, I'm going to have to find a much bigger field and definitely bring Binoculars, 2 Spotters and Tracking Powder. Even then, I may lose it, but it will be worth it for the fun I'll have.

The tracking powder should help immensely. 2 teaspoons of that stuff makes a sizable cloud. I like to make a little cup out if masking tape, and put the powder in there. That way it doesn't fall down , but stays on top, abovr the streamrr so it all comes out at apogee.

Nate
 
The tracking powder should help immensely. 2 teaspoons of that stuff makes a sizable cloud. I like to make a little cup out if masking tape, and put the powder in there. That way it doesn't fall down , but stays on top, abovr the streamrr so it all comes out at apogee.

Nate


Thanks for the Tip! I've never used Tracking Powder of any type before, and will try that with the Tape.
What do you use for Powder?
 
Since the rocket will be filled with Wadding, Recovery Gear and Tracking Powder, I will install a Chute' Shelf to prevent CG Shift under Higher accelerations.
She'll fly straight up everytime, just like all my other Rockets.:)
I like Chute' Shelves. They give me an Anchor for my Recovery Stuff and keep my CG forward without additional Nose Weight.
Keeps everything from degrading from Heat and Sparks too. I mostly use Kevlar Shock Cords, but try to avoid mounting it close to the Ejection Charge. They say that even the Mighty Kevlar is degraded over time from Ejection Gasses/Heat.
In my young days I lost a few Birds to Melted Chutes' when I fudged the wadding or skimped and used Grass from the Field I was launching in as wadding.
 
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