HPR Launch Sites In Southern CA

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NattyDread

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ROC in Lucerne Valley is having some problems getting HPR FAA approval. Where are other launch sites in Southern CA or other areas?
 
TRASD Tripoli San Diego is flying out of Holtville, CA just north east of El Centro.

We fly 1st weekend of the month at Holtville Airfield [closed]. Currently we have a 10k waiver . There maybe an onsite vendor soon but no official dates on his attendance.

Kenny
 
Also look up MDARS. And, for something different, FAR.
 
I cannot figure out MDARS, their web site is claiming the next upcoming launch is in the past and the contact form is broken. Someone said there was a launch, though.
 
Seconding FAR (Friends of Amateur Rocketry).

By far one of the coolest places I have been to; and one of, if not the best facilities for amateur rocketry in the nation. Worth the trip to a launch day even if you have to drive all day to get there (You can spend the night at the motel 6 in Mojave for $50).
 
ROC in Lucerne Valley is having some problems getting HPR FAA approval. Where are other launch sites in Southern CA or other areas?
You should clarify you comments. https://rocstock.org/ states they have their waivers for 2016 and the FAA increased the standard ROC waiver altitude from 7000' AGL' to 14,500' AGL, which is more than twice what they had before. It also states is that with the exception of LDRS where they can call in for clearances between 14,500 to 19,000 AGL, they do not have a call-in waiver option for higher altitudes at other launches.

The ROC launch site altitude is ~2900' MSL so the 14,500' AGL waiver is actually ~17,400' MSL. USCONUS air space is divided into low and high altitude sectors and the dividing line is 18,000' MSL which is also FL 180 (FL = Flight Level). All flights between FL 180 and FL 650 are controlled flights, where as flights below FL 180 may be uncontrolled. The airspace above several low altitude sectors are combined into 1 high altitude sector as flight ops in these sectors are mostly for the high speed long distance commercial travel along standard air routes so less communications is required per flight in high altitude sectors. If you had a waiver that went into or above FL 180 you had to maintain communications with both the local FAA low altitude sector and a regional FAA high altitude sector. And in certain large metro areas, the approach and departures from certain metro airports cross several low altitude sectors so communications must be maintained with 3 different control sectors.....

The story behind the waiver changes over the past couple years is that the rules changed. Waivers used to be granted at several regional FAA offices, however in response to complaints on inequities between regions, now all waiver requests are reviewed and granted by the FAA in DC. It became easier to get waivers to altitudes to FL 170 which are under local FAA control if there were no approach or departure issues, but more difficult to obtain waivers above FL 180 which is national controlled air space. I do not see this changing.

What I believe will be required in the future is to obtain a local TFR (Temporary Flight Restriction) for high altitude rocket operations. Permanent TRFs exist for Washington DC, and for Disneyland and Disney World airspace, and temporary TRFs for national sports events, and POTUS and VIP travel. TRA has obtained a TFR for Blackrock which can be activated to several altitude when required. The difference between a waiver and a TRF is simple. The waiver is a permission slip to coexist with other air traffic in (un)controlled air space where as a TFR is a blanket exclusion for all air ops unless you have prior FAA permission to proceed through the excluded airspace on a defined route under FAA control. The result is a much reduced workload for FAA ATC.

Hopefully TRA and NAR will develop protocols to assist prefectures and sections to obtain TFRs for flights above FL 180 for launch sites that can support them. Not all launch sites are capable of this, and the final decision to proceed should be determined by TRA or NAR because they have existing national relationships with the FAA.

Bob
 
Bob, note this is an old thread from 2015 that was recently raised from the dead, so the original issue was resolved more than a year ago. It wasn't referring to ROC's recent issues, which have also been resolved.
 
Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't notice the initial date, only the date of the most recent response.

ROC has always had a great website that I frequently visit it to look for their old ROC wizards type updates and I was on the website a few days ago and specifically noticed the waiver discussion.

The high altitude waiver issue I noted has occurred with all club looking to go into FL 180+ territory, and I'm unaware of any practical guidance or workaround espoused by TRA or NAR. TRA solved the problem at Black Rock via the TFR route and I talked with a few TRA BOD members at LDRS last year and was hoping there would be some official guidance on the TFR front but I haven't seen any.

Bob
 
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