Wrong Elmer's Wood Filler?

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Trachten

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I tried to use Elmer's Wood Filler for the first time but I think I bought the wrong kind ('Stainable' instead of 'Natural', pics attached). 'Stainable' seems to have small grit or chunks (pic also attached). Perhaps I'm just doing something wrong though. Can anyone confirm before I head back out to the hardware store.

StainableWoodFiller.jpgNaturalWoodFiller.jpgIMG_4682.jpg
 
Here's what you're looking for. That stainable stuff is gritty and dries very hard. Water some of this to the consistency of mustard and you can just paint it on.

Elmers wood filler.jpg
 
Trouble is, I'm not sure you can find that packaging anymore Gary. Elmers has been changing and expanding their wood filler line for years. Back in the day (7, 8 years ago ?) you could find a product labeled "Fill n Finish" (fnf) in every home improvement and hardware store. Then they started messin' with packaging and Carpenter's Wood Filler (cwf) became the goto stuff. Then the Pro and Max labeled stuff came with all manner of grit and fiber added; bad news. They have the stainable and color change stuff now which I haven't tried but the picture Trachten posted doesn't look too good.

Anyway I think this might be a case of the dreaded "New and Improved" process. I'll stay away from anything with wood fiber in the ingredients. Trachten I'm not sure what to tell you except that when I go to buy my next batch I might try to get a sample; if it's feels gritty I'll try something else. The picture of the Interior stuff you posted looks promising.
 
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Thanks for the feedback guys. I looked on the Elmer's website at current products and this seems to be the closest match to what Gary posted. I'm headed to the hardware store tomorrow, if they have it I'll give it a try.

CarpentersWoodFillerTub.jpg
 
I just bought a tub like I posted just this past weekend at ACE Hardware. I hope it's not being phased out. If they don't have that one, let us know how that new one works for you. It should be really smooth with no steenkin' grits.
 
I just bought a tub like I posted just this past weekend at ACE Hardware. ...

That's good to know. One indy hardware store left near me; I might take a run by there this weekend. Haven't noticed that packaging in the big box stores (HD, Lowes) around here for quite some time.
 
We don't have a wide variety of hardware stores here, but neither Lowe's or the mom-n-pop places carry it. ACE was the only place that did. Our nearest HD is 17 miles away, so I rarely go there.
 
Hi Trachten,
The last tub of Carpenter's Wood Filler I picked up was at a Orlando, Florida area WalMart.
It was the same orange tube you showed in post #4.

I put together some mix ratios on my building blog:
https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2010/09/carpenters-wood-filler-mix-ratios.html
https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2013/11/get-right-carpenters-wood-filler.html
https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2012/06/semroc-goblin-build-part-6-fin-grain.html

These water/filler mix ratios are just a place to start. Others have there own methods.
 
I used to use the Elmers stuff and it worked great. Just dilute it down, paint on a few coats, and then SLOWLY sand it off. A few years ago they changed the formulation and it no longer works as it did. I really miss the stuff. I always (and only) got it at Lowes, so perhaps it can be obtained elsewhere.

Jim
 
The Fill'n'Finish was great. I think I bought all of these Wood Fillers listed above, and more, and was never satisfied with any of them. My goto stuff now is Bondo Glazing and Spot Putty for tube spirals and rustoleum filler primer for balsa fins.
 
I bought the Max version and believe it too chunky and gritty for tube spirals. It does work real well for damage repair and shaping, though. I think it was designed to occupy spaces with more volume than tube spirals.
 
Thanks for the feedback guys. I looked on the Elmer's website at current products and this seems to be the closest match to what Gary posted. I'm headed to the hardware store tomorrow, if they have it I'll give it a try.

View attachment 253459

That's the only stuff I use--it's the only stuff I can find at my local Ace.

I mix it with 3 parts CWF and 1 part *cold* water, and mix, and then maybe add a tiny bit of water as needed. When I used hot water, the CWF would just dissipate...

That mix goes on a little thick, but the alternative was to have it more watery and take more coats...I place the fins between wax paper, but paper towels on top and then put the fins between heavy books, to ensure they dry flat.
 
That's the only stuff I use--it's the only stuff I can find at my local Ace.

I mix it with 3 parts CWF and 1 part *cold* water, and mix, and then maybe add a tiny bit of water as needed. When I used hot water, the CWF would just dissipate...

That mix goes on a little thick, but the alternative was to have it more watery and take more coats...I place the fins between wax paper, but paper towels on top and then put the fins between heavy books, to ensure they dry flat.

If you've never tried it, here's a technique you might consider... it works wonderfully for me and many others here on the forums...

Take a dab (bout a teaspoonful to a tablespoon) of filler from the can, and put it into a small "pop top" type container (I keep those little red-lidded snap-top reusable cups that the side items come in at KFC, but any similar small "resealable" container will work just as well). Get a 1 inch wide fairly-stiff bristle paint brush (just a cheapy off-the-shelf paint brush from any hardware store will work fine, don't really want an "artist" type brush) and then add water a couple drops at a time, gently working it into the filler using the paint brush by "stabbing" at the lump of filler to work the water in... keep working the water in a little at a time, until you end up with filler that becomes a smooth and even paste, about the same consistency as bottled hot dog mustard or pancake batter... IOW, a THICK liquid, not so thick that it won't collapse under its own weight back into the bowl if pulled up into a "peak", but not so thin that it runs like water either...

Now, you can BRUSH this mixture onto the parts. I usually go over them twice, to make sure everything is coated evenly and with enough thickness that it ensures everything is covered well. You'll sand 95% of this off subsequently, so no need in going TOO thick, it just makes more work for you later if you do. Just make sure everything is evenly and uniformly covered. Not really that hard at all.

I usually paper fins, because its faster, easier, and adds a LOT more strength, BUT, if you want to use filler on the fins, is you do BOTH sides at the same time, there's really little/no danger of warpage. At least *I* have never had any warpage because of it. The moisture you added really isn't as much as one would think, and it rather quickly evaporates and the filler tends to pull the moisture up and wick it to the surface exposed to the air, rather than into the wood, so I've never seen the need for complicated "weighting/pressing" methods myself...

If you're working with especially large/thin fins and worried about possible warpage (which is admittedly more of a problem with larger and thinner pieces of wood) and one wants to add a bit of extra strength, one could harden the balsa fins with CA before applying the filler... I use "ultra-thin" pink bottle CA from Hobby Lobby, rubbed onto the surface with the tip of the bottle applicator. If you plan to glue the fins on using wood glue, be sure you do a double-glue joint first application of yellow wood glue to the fin root edge FIRST so that the CA does not seal off the wood grain and cause poor adhesion and bond strength of the yellow glue later on. Apply a thin layer of wood glue to the root edge of the fin and allow it to dry-- it will draw itself into the wood grain and cure, and the subsequent CA application will not affect it. Then use a standard double-glue joint to attach the fin to the rocket.

Works like a champ...

Good luck! OL JR :)
 
Thanks for all the advice. I picked up a small tub like the picture in post #4 above. Both my local hardware store and ACE had it in stock.
 
If you've never tried it, here's a technique you might consider... it works wonderfully for me and many others here on the forums...
<snip>
Works like a champ...

Good luck! OL JR :)

Thanks for that, I'll try that sometime. I'm especially interested in trying CA on balsa fins to harden them...I have thought about papering my fins, but haven't done any yet...I wasn't sure how the paint would go on after papering, and sanding/sealing isn't really a pain (except I just bought a mask and filter, because I'm finding I'm very sensitive to the dust from sanding the wood filler).
 
Thanks for that, I'll try that sometime. I'm especially interested in trying CA on balsa fins to harden them...I have thought about papering my fins, but haven't done any yet...I wasn't sure how the paint would go on after papering, and sanding/sealing isn't really a pain (except I just bought a mask and filter, because I'm finding I'm very sensitive to the dust from sanding the wood filler).

I've posted how I paper fins many times, and I have pics of the process in my "Dr. Zooch Vanguard Eagle Beta Build" thread, complete with description of the process along with the pics hand-in-hand (which a quick search will turn up using the term in quotes, as I've posted the links many times as well). The process is straightforward-- the most important point is, use an EXTREMELY THIN layer of regular WHITE (not school) glue, as thin as possible, and I use regular printer paper.

Once dry and trimmed and edge-sanded, they paint just like the body tube or anything else... I double-glue the fins on, fillet with Titebond Moulding and Trim Wood Glue, and then give it a few coats of primer (usually Rusto wet-sandable primer, or Walmart "Colorplace" Primer). Both work well.

Later! OL JR :)
 
Back to entry #1.... I used a tube of this stuff to try to repair/resurface the balsa nose cone of a "Long Tom" that had lawn darted on the first launch. The body tube had to be "amputated" and a new motor mount constructed to fit up into the first stage (not the separating booster... that had been lost).

Examination of the recovered nose cone looked like it had been chewed by a dog at first, but with a few coatings of this wood filler, and subsequent sanding, it smoothed out into a virtually acceptable smooth cone again.

I prepared it and then asked for the passion pink paint that the original rocketeer had used, but never received it. Instead, I returned the rocket to it's rightful owner.... and I'm still awaiting him to finish it with a primer or a once over pink coat to prepare it for launch this spring.

Never heard about it again, though he admired the fill job on the nose cone when I handed it over.
So I conclude from this that the regular wood filler will work to fill true voids in the wood. (Never tried to water it down.)
 
Back to entry #1.... So I conclude from this that the regular wood filler will work to fill true voids in the wood. (Never tried to water it down.)

Watering the wood filler down is generally for coating balsa nose cones and fins for a grain filler. If you are repairing a balsa nose cone, watered down filler is practically useless. You have to go with the full bodied filler. That, or something like Bondo.
 
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