Anybody else notice problems with the Estes STM-012?

I doubt I'm the only one who has this problem.

A while ago, I bought an Estes STM-012, but before I left the store, I noticed that it had a creased body tube (on the non-fin end), so it couldn't be hidden below a fin. I returned it on the spot. I bought my 2nd STM-012, and unlike the first time, I found the problem AFTER I opened it, so I don't think I can return it.


This STM-012 is partially flattened on the ends. I thought I could straighten out the damaged areas by using the tube coupler and the engine mount. Then I opened the kit... The nosecone and tube coupler pressed a flat space into the sides of both body tubes (and creased one of them), and the tube coupler itself is out of round (flattened on one end). If you look in the photos below, the angle should be flat along the length of the body tubes (no shadows), but you can see a shadow showing the flattened spots.








So, the coupler's a wash, as are both body tubes. I noticed that in all the STM-012's I've looked at, that they have had the flattened ends problems (some worse than others). These rockets are packed into a bag too small for two full length BT-60 body tubes and a BT-60 nosecone. Estes needs to use a bigger bag, AND/OR use a bigger bag with cardboard reinforcements (like the old Mean Machine).


The manufacture date is: 06/05/12

Yep. Looks out of round and slightly bent. If the store won't take it back, best bet is Estes customer service.

Body Tubes are and always have been the weak link in Estes kits...

All of them from the Alpha through the PS-II's...

The rest of the components are usually top notch...

It shouldn't be that way...

Hope they take care of it for you...

a while back I bought a mini fat boy, every tube in the bag was out of round to some extent (including the launch lug), however the nose and fins were okay. I believe it is a multi-part problem. 1) small bags 2)how they were shipped to the store (Great Plains apparently doesn't like shipping half empty boxes if they can use a smaller box or fewer boxes...) 2a) shipping carrier.
larger bags will not help much if someone over stuffs the box they are shipped in.
Rex

Rex R said:

a while back I bought a mini fat boy, every tube in the bag was out of round to some extent (including the launch lug), however the nose and fins were okay. I believe it is a multi-part problem. 1) small bags 2)how they were shipped to the store (Great Plains apparently doesn't like shipping half empty boxes if they can use a smaller box or fewer boxes...) 2a) shipping carrier.
larger bags will not help much if someone over stuffs the box they are shipped in.
Rex

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True, but cramming everything into too small a bag practically guarantees these sorts of issues.

To the OP-- contact Estes customer service... they've been EXCELLENT about dealing with such issues and will probably send you a new kit...

Later! OL JR

Don’t get me started on that kit.

Oops!! Too late.

I bought one of these at High Frontiers and like you the supplied body tubes were crunched. It is easy to see why; tubes + large balsa fin sheets = Bigger than the package.

This is known as the “Ten pounds of potatoes in a five pound sack scenario” and the only way it works is if you make mashed potatoes.

I e-mailed Estes about the problem and they sent me a new kit; complete with crushed tubes. I then, on my own dime, sent the replacement kit back with a detailed note concerning the problem with the sub-sized packaging.

Estes sent me yet another replacement kit complete with crushed tubes.

At that point I just gave up.

Something about horses and water.

+1 on what Luke said. I picked one up a while ago at the LHS, the tubes looked okay until I opened the package. Like yours they were out of round a little but not bad, useable.
Then I noticed the flat spot created by the nose cone, again tolerable. What got me to contact Estes was that the kit was packed without centering rings:hot:

I emailed Estes and within a week Christene had a replacement kit on the way, and all I asked for were the rings.:smile: The replacement was packed in the same small bag but was in much better shape. Estes customer service is excellent, drop 'em a line they'll treat you right.

I too had these problems with this kit. I notified Estes and they promptly sent me another kit and this kit came with tubes that were in worse condition than the kit I originally purchased.

I notified them again and mentioned that I would just purchase my own BT's for this kit even though I would have to slot them myself as this kit has slotted tubes and they sent me just a set of the BT's themselves that were in perfect shape.

They also mentioned they would change the packaging of this kit but obviously that hasn't been done yet.

Once built, the rocket is very nice. It is huge and a great flier to boot.

I had the same problem with my kit purchased from HobbyLinc. Mine weren't severe and I was able to fix them with the coupler and motor mount.

On the second flight, I had a D15T with some bonus delay, so now I have a zipper to fix.

AlfaBrewer said:

I had the same problem with my kit purchased from HobbyLinc. Mine weren't severe and I was able to fix them with the coupler and motor mount.

On the second flight, I had a D15T with some bonus delay, so now I have a zipper to fix.

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"bonus delay" I love it... (but not the resulting zipper)

I had a similar issue. the STM-012 is packed really tight in the bag, which I think is part of the problem. I fixed mine then proceeded to leave it in a tree for 8 weeks. I need to get another one.

When you build it in china.....this is bound to happen.


It took me four tries to type this without swearing.

QC went right in the effeing tank when they shipped it overseas. Hope it was worth it to them.

It's too bad for you guys to have to go through this. I do feel that Christine who I spoke to not a week ago about a replacement Apollo capsule and tower which be shipped free of charge, will do everything in her power to rectify the situation for you. I hope for the best.

I had the same problem when I got mine, I contacted Estes and they sent me a new replacement kit right away, same problem. I then contacted Mike Fritz at Estes thru this forum (be69ar) for an opinion on the matter, he personally helped and I got tubes that were not out of round sent to me. They got it right, plus I got some bonus parts for kit bashing. Yes, I agree it shouldn't happen, especially the second time, but Estes will take care of you-I am still a very happy customer. The STM-012 is a great looking rocket, a nice build, and a great flier.

No (personal) reply to my email (the OP was a modified version of the email). However, I did get an email that says that a warranty replacement STM-012 is on it's way.

I wonder how many who have received a replacement rocket got them from a batch made at (or around) the same time as their original. I also wonder if newer batches have been made, and if the issue has been addressed.

K'Tesh said:

No (personal) reply to my email (the OP was a modified version of the email). However, I did get an email that says that a warranty replacement STM-012 is on it's way.

I wonder how many who have received a replacement rocket got them from a batch made at (or around) the same time as their original. I also wonder if newer batches have been made, and if the issue has been addressed.

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I certainly hope so for everyone's sake here. I suppose it will take some time for Estes to eventually iron out this issue, but I feel confident they will shortly. That's what companies rely on most is customer input.

I have nothing but excellent comments for Estes customer service when things like this occur. They usually ship out a new kit or the parts to replace. I wish you didn't have to go this method with kits but they do get beat up I am sure in the trip from China. Sometimes it is not always Estes fault. It also depends what kind of mailman/courier person you have for your area. We had a horrendous UPS guy in our area and enough people complained they replaced him. Now packages come in better condition.

slipperyfrog said:

I have nothing but excellent comments for Estes customer service when things like this occur. They usually ship out a new kit or the parts to replace. I wish you didn't have to go this method with kits but they do get beat up I am sure in the trip from China. Sometimes it is not always Estes fault. It also depends what kind of mailman/courier person you have for your area. We had a horrendous UPS guy in our area and enough people complained they replaced him. Now packages come in better condition.

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Most excellent! :horse:

I had the same problem, The body tubes were smashed. The packaging is too tight. Estes sent me a replacement. The same problem existed. I finally gave up and replaced the body tubes. Here is a picture of the finished product. It is a good flyer.

Rocketron

I thought of this Thread the other day at Coins & Hobbies in Barre, VT., and looked to see if they had this Kit, and if so if I could see the Tubes through the Packaging. They did, and I could, and it looked just fine.

TopRamen said:

I thought of this Thread the other day at Coins & Hobbies in Barre, VT., and looked to see if they had this Kit, and if so if I could see the Tubes through the Packaging. They did, and I could, and it looked just fine.

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Problem is, they can look just fine. You won't discover the flat spot between caused by the nosecone and the tube coupler until after you open it. I'd say rule of thumb... If the nosecone can't slide up and down inside the bag, it's too tight in there, and likely damaged.

Now I want to go look at it again, but more thoroughly. It's not like it's going anywhere anytime soon. This is Vermont. Our populace is generally not intelligent enough to handle things like Rocketry, and thusly the Hobby Shop has a very slow turnover as far as selling Kits goes.
If you want to score a Vintage Kit, go to Coins & Hobbies. They have some fairly old stock.
Some of the Kits hanging on their wall were there when I had my last BAR go around in 99'-01'.:lol:

Got my warranty replacement. The bag was just as tight (can't upload the photos from school), and I found that to extract the parts, I needed to pull the nosecone out first to get the slack needed to extract the body tubes. They were round on the ends, but still had the dented spots from the nosecone (one was creased).

I've contacted Estes about this, and I got an email today saying that they're sending a pair of hand selected slotted tubes. While I'm happy to get the tubes, I really wish that the kits weren't damaged in the first place.

BTW new kit was dated 08/27/12.

Just want to let everyone know...

I was able to pick up the replacement tubes, and despite the shippers trying to use the box as a football (JK, but it did have one crushed corner), the parts arrived 100%.

Thanks Estes!
Jim

K'Tesh said:

Just want to let everyone know...

I was able to pick up the replacement tubes, and despite the shippers trying to use the box as a football (JK, but it did have one crushed corner), the parts arrived 100%.

Thanks Estes!
Jim

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Read my first post; how is it that you got great service and I got nothing but more of the same?

Which is odd, because on a different occasion I e-mailed asking to purchase a set of decals for an Estes’ kit to aid in repairing “Crash Damage” and Estes sent me a complete new kit?

Or perhaps it isn’t so odd. With all their manufacturing off shore Estes probably doesn’t have much in the way of parts laying around so all they really can do is send a complete kit, it’s probably cheaper that way.

Sadly it doesn’t help when ALL the kits of a given rocket kit are damaged in the same way.

Today at the Hobby Shop I remembered to check out the 2 Models they had of this.
They both were squeezed into too small Bags. Shame.
Hopefully Estes figures it out and corrects it.
For $17 I was thinking I'de buy one if it was'nt warped.

TopRamen said:

Today at the Hobby Shop I remembered to check out the 2 Models they had of this.
They both were squeezed into too small Bags. Shame.
Hopefully Estes figures it out and corrects it.
For $17 I was thinking I'de buy one if it was'nt warped.

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You might go ahead and buy it... Estes is really good about warranty issues should it be damaged.

K'Tesh said:

You might go ahead and buy it... Estes is really good about warranty issues should it be damaged.

Click to expand...

What your calling damage is nothing new to Estes, Centuri or other kit manufacturers. nor is it something that has only started since going to china for kit packaging. Granted some of the stuff I've seen from china is Way over packed but guys unless the tube is actually creased any out of round tube is easily brought back to round by simply inserting a mandrel for a day or two. I've been using slightly out of round to Oval shaped tubes for years from just about every model maker out there with no adverse effects once they are allowed to re-round on a mandrel for a day of so.
Looking at the OP's first pictures I just laughed out loud at the thought of returning such a tube for another kit or tube.

I know I've mentioned before the pleasure of having a set of internal mandrels for cutting tubes for scratch building but they also work for rounding out minor problems like you see in those first post pictures. Customer service from Estes is and has alway been first rate but this kind of minor thing really doesn't need anything other then a little time on an internal mandel to fix.
If you do not have a set of 20 or 36in long mandrels for the size model bodies you use, start making them! Once you have a set they will last a very long time. OBTW even a full set (T2-through BT-101) doesn't take up much room or weight enough to be a problem even for those in school.

Micromeister said:

What your calling damage is nothing new to Estes, Centuri or other kit manufacturers. nor is it something that has only started since going to china for kit packaging. Granted some of the stuff I've seen from china is Way over packed but guys unless the tube is actually creased any out of round but is easily brought back to round by simply inserting a mandrel for a day or two. I've been using slightly out of round tubes for years from just about every model maker out there with no adverse effects once the are allowed to re-round on a mandrel for a day of so.
Looking at the OP's first pictures I just laughed out loud at the thought of returning such a tube.

I know I've mentioned before the pleasure of having a set of internal mandrels for cutting tubes for scratch building but they also work for rounding out minor problems like you see in those first post pictures. Customer service from Estes is alway been first rate but this kind of minor thing really doesn't need anything other then a little time and an internal mandel to fix.
If you do not have a set of 20 or 36in long mandrels for the size model bodies you use, start making them once you have a set they will last a very long time. OBTW even a full set doesn't take up much room or weight enough to be a problem even for those in school.

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Welcome back, MM!

Since this model has been brought up. Has anybody turned this into a gap staged version yet? Nose weight(Removable for single engine flights)would of course be required. I plan on ordering one someday, soon I hope.