Idea: ground support software

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Any body ever thought of a flight card and pad management software?
 
Interesting Idea. Of course, the Pros of it have to out weigh the cons of the tried and true paper system.
 
Yes, I dream so that that practical but..

Smartphone or Tablet based flightcard app, transmit info on sunlight viewable screen at LCO table. paperless,,, someday.
 
Well, the biggest advantage I can think of - and it is a very practical one - would be that automatically keeping track of statistics might help lower a club's insurance rates because they could give accurate data for risk assessment.
 
If it tied the flights into the launching, and kept track of flight times, It would be an awesome resource for photographers. Instead of "here's a red rocket on a green motor" I could be posting named folders, making it easier to find your flights without having to dig through 10,000 shots.
 
Maybe something involving a Kindle with modified software somehow?
 
...transmit info on sunlight viewable screen at LCO table....
Ditto.
A sort of flight card management system is already in use at NAR meets (Contest Manager), but field data is still recorded on paper and entered into CM later. Kind of a pain in the butt to use outdoors. Plus, it only ends up increasing range head staffing requirements if "on the fly" data entry is needed.
 
It might not be cost worthy at this time, but you all have hit all the points that make it attractive.
 
If it tied the flights into the launching, and kept track of flight times, It would be an awesome resource for photographers. Instead of "here's a red rocket on a green motor" I could be posting named folders, making it easier to find your flights without having to dig through 10,000 shots.

That sounds really good, but I've read a lot of flight cards and looking at how people would enter data, I'm not sure it would work all that well. It would be good if the flight system had the same clock time that your camera had and you could match the time stamp of the photo with the time stamp of the flight card/launch data, but..... there is still a lot of human intervention in even that system.

Besides what do you do about the BAR that came back after 20 year and wants to launch that old rocket and motor he dug out of the basement and only owns an old flip phone. They are out there!!!
 
I think the system would require a tablet or two at a flight registration table.

It'd be hard to hit all the details we're used to, and still make it easy to use and smooth.... But I think there benefits make it worth looking into. Hell, if we're talking pie in the sky dreaming, you could tie it into telemetry systems and a wifi camera transmitter. Automatically output flight data and photos to a website without intervention.


More simply you'd need a system running the actual launch operations from the collection of digital flight cards, a way to assign flights to a live pad from the pool of loaded cards, and a way for fliers to enter pre-flight info (with an option to lock that info post flight, and allow flight results to be entered)
 
I think to be feasible you would need some sort of on site network such as wifi. Probably would help to have flyers be able to use their phone, tablet, computer to file flight cards. If the software kept basic rocket data, that would help. So the flyer would only have to enter the motor and any changes.

From there I am thinking that the LCO has to have a one touch means of indicating a normal launch. And a quick way to indicate most common issues.

The RCO should also have access to rocket history and to be able to note concerns, and correction of them. Even better if they can quickly put in pad weight and CG. (Or a helper could do this as a precheck.

Such a system would be awesome. I suspect the biggest hurdle would be getting it used. Especially if the first run went rough and was abandoned. At any rate a club would have to buy into the whole thing (not financially, but to work things out). You would also need some devices to allow those who don't have a device to enter their data. But, if you tied it to a web server so that flyers could put the basic rocket info in ahead it would help.
 
We have a lot of scout troop attendees and many "guests", learning curve would be slow and slow down launches. Maybe adding an express lane for those that have adopted the program. I would love to be able to have the flight card "template" to be able to fill in most of the info beforehand and print card mostly filled out. I'm sure all would appreciate a legible card.
 
Bonus: A tablet won't blow away after you spend 5 minutes filling it out.... :)
 
Bonus: A tablet won't blow away after you spend 5 minutes filling it out.... :)

True. It would take one heck of a wind to blow away an iPad or andoid tablet.

I have though about an online card that can be printed. I am just not sure how to make it so the back prints also.
 
True. It would take one heck of a wind to blow away an iPad or andoid tablet.

You obviously haven't been to BattlePark and gotten caught in a "Culpeper Special"! I guess they would be dust devils anywhere else, they are pretty rare, but they sure can take out almost anything not nailed down. The good thing is you usually see the 200 to +300 foot column of swirling corn stalks as it approaches. Gives you some chance to grab onto gazebos and anything else not nailed down. Haven't seen one lift a car, but they will shake them around a bit. If you're sitting inside your vehicle, you'll know it when a "special" comes through.

The problem is, they seem to happen on the warmest and calmest days. You're really not ready for them and they can sneak up on you.
 
If the UI is done right your scout troop would find it easier to fill out then a paper flight card. I am thinking that in the ideal, you would have help and could easily find most commercial kits ready made and pushing you toward the right choice.

Typical first time flyers put in their name, choose Estes, then the particular model. Select which engine from a list and are set. If they fly again, they can either accept the same rocket, or choose to add another. Ideally, people could preregistration their model on a web site.

Again in my ideal software should say someone choose to fly a Quest Toober with a C engine, those attending to the launch would be warned that without modification this model is at the edge of stability.

Certainly if it was adopted by a number of clubs, you could benefit from experiences of others. Maybe the model hasn't been seen by my club, but other clubs have seen a high rate of issues with model/motor combo. A warning could come about to know that this needs more attention. If one could tie in a basic weather station it might even coo relate wind speed with weathercock of a model.
 
I suspect starting out one would allow either using a paper card, or the system.
 
Maybe you could have phone apps which convert the flight card data entered at one's leisure into a QR code which would be scanned by the LCO tablet.
 
And this is what happens when rocketeers over-analyze a situation... To think this all started because of my one post in the NSL thread.... :p
 
The QR code could possibly be a way around the data link issue. The idea of it all really does intrigue me. I am thinking that it shouldn't be too tough for some flight log program that could be designed to morph.
 
What a fantastic and intriguing idea!

I'm imagining it much like a charting program...


Later!

--Coop
 
I haven't seen anything except a Panasonic Toughbook that was easy to see in bright sunlight. The Toughbooks have a transflective, rather than a backlit, screen. (there is a backlight for when you're using the laptop indoors.)
 
I haven't seen anything except a Panasonic Toughbook that was easy to see in bright sunlight. The Toughbooks have a transflective, rather than a backlit, screen. (there is a backlight for when you're using the laptop indoors.)
Anything with an AMOLED display might work. I only know of this one. I've seen its fantastically bright and vivid display.:

https://www.engadget.com/2014/06/12/galaxy-tab-s-hands-on/

"in a test that simulated performance in direct sunlight. The (Samsung) Tab S's AMOLED panel maintained a level of clarity and vividness that couldn't be touched. Part of what makes the screen so impressive are the smarts that help it adapt to new situations. There's a tiny RGB sensor embedded in the bezels of both tablets that let it gauge your current lighting situation and fiddles with white balance to compensate. If you happen to find yourself in a room bathed with purple light (poor you), the screen takes on a magenta cast so as not to strain your eyes, a process that repeats wherever you go."

However, it's not ruggedized.

[video=youtube;qwpfT9jtsMk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwpfT9jtsMk[/video]
 
I don't think using a computer to enter flight card info on site would work very well. Being able to see a computer, tablet, or phone screen in sunlight is difficult; not everyone would have access to a device for entering the info; an online connection might be unavailable or unreliable; etc.

A system where the flyer enters most of the flight data at home before the launch and pre-prints a flight card with a QRCode linking back to the online data might help manage a large launch. At the RSO/LCO table, the card is scanned and a new flight record created which can be immediately updated with any new or change information. Of course, there would have to be a separate process for people who didn't create a flight card online.

-- Roger
Print Flight Cards: https://www.rocketreviews.com/print-flight-cards.html
 
Contest Manager https://www.narhams.org/ContestManager/ has been in use at NARAMs for the last several years and it works quite well for the competition range. Data entry is done under the main tent in the shade. It's a standalone Java application with data import capability to avoid the problem of requiring an online connection at the flying site. However it's narrowly targeted at NAR, FAI and TARC competition, is distributed as zero-cost shareware with modification explicitly disallowed, and thus is not really usable for general HPR style flight logging. But it does provide a working example of practical rocketry event logging software. I think there would be value in having a similar package that would track event registrants, range fees, and cert levels, and provide flight logging.

Using such a package would require some range setups to be modified to be more like the NAR nats with tents over the LCO flight ops area and registration. Many west coast desert events I've attended do not (oddly IMO) have this, so I am not sure adoption would be very rapid.
 
I am thinking that while the software won't cover 100% of a launch it could potentially take a worthwhile percentage. The thing that I am thinking about is that I regularly see people glancing at their smart phones at club launches. For my L1, I had a Egg Tracker and used my iPhone to walk up to the rocket (in full sun). So I just won't buy that this can't be done.

The average launch participant could run entry software either standalone or from a web site. After setting the flight details, they should be able to easily toggle between a human form and a QR code. The RSO and/or the LCO can scan the code with another phone and capture the information. Then they should have an additional ability to note any errant flight info quickly and easily. My initial though is a single button press for clean launch. Perhaps some check boxes for common problems and a note area.

To be sure some won't want to use it. Some because they don't have a smart phone. Some because God has ordained that paper is the right way. But... if 50% used it, that might save some poor soul from some data entry. And the paper cards could have a code added to correlate the information on the card to launch information to the card later.

I will try and play around with a basic UI anyway. Doesn't seem too hard.
 
This is a VERY long way from usable - but I have a start of what I am thinking here. Will keep working on it, but would like feedback on what is there. There is no validation but you can add and edit people. Don't recall if delete works or not.

My though is to put a similar section for rockets. Then one for flight configuration. First single engine/single stage. Then cover more scenarios. I would like it to be able to transfer data through QR codes. And be a stand alone app someone could use to simply track their own flights.

Anyway, you can see a start here:
https://1tree.net/flight/#/view2

The links for the views are backwards (don't ask) :) But the link for view 2 will show you my first thought. I don't like the UI though. Think it could be confusing.

Thanks to any who look.

Kirk
 
Paper flight cards don't require batteries or computers. Cards cost about $0.10-0.20 a piece in quantity and don't delay the launch.

If you want to record statistics in a club environment, have a volunteer statistic committee who will input the card data into a spreadsheet after the launch.

Bob
 
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