Quick Question: Level 1 and 2 Cert. Flights for NAR on same day?

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caruolo

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Hello,

I turned 18 this past Saturday (finally!) and would love to obtain certification to launch bigger motors and rockets!
However, I was planning on trying to Certify for Level 1 and Level 2 on the same launch day, February 7th. I have already built my Level 1 rocket, a LOC Vulcanite, and will finish building my Level 2 Giant Leap Vertical Assault 3.0.
I plan on doing both flights on lower impulse motors of their respective categories, and motor ejection for both flights as well. This is due to cost and simplicity for me.

This presents my question, which is in the title: Is this realistically possible? Of course it requires the the passing of the first flight, and then taking the written test before proceeding with the L2 flight, but considering my circumstances and experience with rocketry, does it seem do-able?

Some quick background info: I have been launching rockets for 10+ years, including designing, simulating (Rocksim), building, and launching custom rockets. I have also assisted in several high power launches at monthly launches of the club I participate in, which has a 15,000 feet ceiling. I also assisted in a N5800 project to 20,000 feet this past summer at my first time at Black Rock Desert.

Thank you for any and all advice, I greatly appreciate it!

caruolo
 
Yes of course it's possible....as long as you are well prepared and prepped for flights. You don't say where you are launching from, but as long as the recovery area leads to finding things quickly, you should be fine. Good luck on your attempts. Stay calm and don't rush. Treat them like just another of your many previous flights & go for it.
Fly the L-1 on the smallest H you can get away with to keep it low and quickly recover it.

A 3 in rocket on a J-motor is capable of 4-5000ft & depending on winds, and your site could be the only "gotcha" when flying motor eject. Heck if your out there on playa somewhere...ya just drive up to it. If your in an overgrown field somewhere, it could take hours to find it.

So depending on where your at, you might want to borrow a tracker to save time finding your project.

Have the L-1 ready when the pads open, so you can get that out of the way first thing. Pre -arrange for the test to be ready, so your not wasting a couple hours for whoever is giving it.... to have time to go find it & a place to sit down and take it....at the last minute. Pre-RSO everything as early as possible, so you don't have to wait in line. Have flight witness's ready to watch at your scheduled times, that alone could waste all your time or save the day. They aren't there just for you & probably ain't going to stand around waiting for you. Most likely they will by flying something also & worst case would be: you ready to fly and they are out looking for hours for their rocket!

Well planned it's doable....last minute could be a nightmare, time wise and logistiacally. Even could anger some, showing you have this well thought out and planned will go along ways to convincing folks you can accomplish this.

Ps have a "what if" back-up plan.....what if your L-1 catoes or has a screwed up recovery? You could be dead in the water right at the start. What if you can't find one of them? etc. etc. Got an extra L-1 rocket.....bring it. Be sure you have 2 motors available...just in case. What if a lug or button pulls loose?
It's the little stuff that gets you in a scenario like this. After all it's only rocketry & we all know....nothing ever goes wrong...LOL
So BE sure to have a plan B if you want to pull this off in one day.
 
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I bet that vertial assault would fly on a I800vmax to not too high. A J335 would fling that vulconite pretty high though...
 
I would recommend borrowing a tracker for your L2, just to be safe. Best of luck on your certs!
 
I just wonder if you got an old iphone, you could just stick the iphone in the nosecone, and (assuming there's cell reception in the area), use the "find my iphone" app to locate it...
 
I saw someone do it at TCC in Fresno a few years ago. Both her flights were successful. I wasn't privy to her flight preparations, so I don't know how she prepared. So yes, it is possible, but my question is why? Why rush into it? Why put the extra pressure on yourself? I say take the time to relish in your accomplishments. But that's just my :2:.
 
It is not that uncommon. If that is what you want, go for it.
 
There are so many cool motors between H and J that it would take a very long time to fly them all. There are several realistic questions only you can answer about your goal. First, you stated you want to fly bigger motors. That's cool and all but do you have the budget to do so? Personally when motors get into the $100 to $150 range I baulk a bit. I'd much rather fly 4 or 5 $20 to $40 motors than one and you gain much more experience doing so. Another thing is do you have the field? If you are out west chances are it's not much of a concern, out east it factors in real quick. Do you have the vehicle to carry a larger rocket to the flying sight?

I love bigger motors but my personal answers to the concerns above have somewhat limited me to my LOC Minnie Magg flying on H's and I's and other smaller rockets on G's and H's. My investment in the hobby is relatively low but I have over 20 motors in the bag ready to go as opposed to one larger rocket with a bigger motor mount that sits while I save up for a flight. Also when I go to a launch, my wife goes which necessitates adding more creature comforts. Little stuff like this takes up room in my rocketmobile which limits the size of rockets. Just something else to consider if you want to take a buddy or a girlfriend to a launch, highly recommended BTW.

You are going to find some people bet a bit annoyed with the question you asked. It used to bug me too but I realized different people are attracted to the hobby for different reasons. To some people the hobby IS a race, get your boxes checked and move on to something else that catches your eye. To others like me it's a long term thing that isn't going anywhere. No need to rush, have fun trying out thing. BTW, your Vulcanite is a perfectly good L2 kit if you like to push the limits but it will get up there. My Nuke tickled 8K on a small J. Have fun and don't burn yourself out. This hobby is littered with people that show up to the launches for a couple of years then disappear never to be heard from until their vast amount of hardware gets hung out in the for sale section. (don't ever buy, bad spirits!).
 
Given your experience level, I wouldn't say you would have an issue. Especially if the powers that be at your club are familiar with you and your capabilities. Let them know before hand so they are ready, and like Jim said - have your L1 ready to go so it can be one of the first flights off to give you plenty of time to recover the L1 and prep the L2 attempt.

Good luck, and keep us posted!
 
One of our new SEVRA members did it at our last launch. Same rocket for both flights.
 
Thank you everybody for the quick responses! I will take heed to your advice and concerns.

@Blackjack2564: The launch site is Snow Ranch in CA, hosted by LUNAR. Prairie type landscape (a few hills here and there) with short vegetation. Thank you for your advice on planning ahead with a schedule and a backup plan. I don't know if I'll be able to come up with an extra rocket as backup for L1, but if anything I can launch the Assault as my backup.

@cbrarick: If the Vulcanite doesnt make L1, I'll probably launch the Assault for my backup in an I for a low flight.

@gerbs4me: I think I may as well do that, thank you!

@cherokeej: Is there anything you want to say? Even if it's against my plans, I will still take heed of your advice.

@taiwanluthiers: That actually sounds like a great idea. If there is cell phone reception (I'll contact a few people of the LUNAR board to ask), I'll stick an old iPhone 4s that we still have on plan into the Assault for L2. Thank you!

I saw someone do it at TCC in Fresno a few years ago. Both her flights were successful. I wasn't privy to her flight preparations, so I don't know how she prepared. So yes, it is possible, but my question is why? Why rush into it? Why put the extra pressure on yourself? I say take the time to relish in your accomplishments. But that's just my :2:.

Thanks for your concern. This has been the main opposition/concern about my plans. But the thing is, when I was 11, I persuaded my dad to do L1 so we could fly higher power rockets, so I already know what certifying looks and feels like (as it was an accomplishment for both of us). I guess the answer to "Why" is because I feel like L1 will be almost a breeze for me after what I have assisted and helped with. That being said, I will still relish it as I move on, but it is something that I have been waiting a long time to do. Thank you for your input and bringing this concern to light.

@Titan II: Thank you Titan!

@grouch: This is a great point, and I want to thank you for bringing this up. But now that I think about it, I will be going to college soon, and won't be flying so frequently. I guess that is also why I want to get Certified; I can plan ahead for bigger projects and not have to worry about Certification. Like you said it is a big sum of money, and I wont be launching Level 2 class motors all the time, but when I have a project and want to execute it, I'll have the certification to do so. I have also been launching rockets for such a long time, and I don't think I'll be quitting once I get certified. It is a a check in the box for me, but its a sub accomplishment to reach a greater goal I have.

@loopy: Thank you for your support! And I definitely will keep you guys posted on building process and flights.

@PhlAsh: Thanks for the info. I may do the Assault for both flights if the Vulcanite doesn't work out, but I think it will be ok.


I was planning on laminating the Vulcanites' fin location with glass, including the body tube where they are located as fin failure on landing seems to be a common issue.
What do you guys think?
 
I have Verizon, and I get cell coverage at the ranch. And yes, hard landings are common, even though the ground is fairly soft, for the most part. But there are a lot of rocks, that are like magnets to rocket fins. I look forward to seeing your cert flights in person! Are you planning on this season?
 
If you could, you might be able to rig the iphone in such a way that it could also record a video of the flight (not sure how this can be done), as well as data such as acceleration and stuff. Extra weight, yes but if its in the nose, its good. Also it means the rocket wouldnt fly as high, which for a cert attempt is a good thing. No replacement for a DD altimeter for sure (unless someone wrote an app for that) but it would work as a locator.

But check if it's ok to do this... someone said FAA regs prohibit cell transmission above a certain altitude.
 
I'm on AT&T with my iPhone 5 and I also had fine reception on the Snow Ranch field. Same with TCC's Maddox Dairy field. Now Black Rock, may as well go back to smoke signals. :) At least the WiFi truck there seems to get a bit better each year.
 
No real need to glass the fins unless you want to. cbrarick has a stock Vulcanite built with wood glue that has had the snot beat out of it but keeps coming back for more. I am convinced if you make them ugly they will last forever, it seems to works for him. My Nuke ProMaxx was built with epoxy but doesn't have any glass on it at all and is tough as they come. As you know they are about the same rocket with different fin shapes. I feel comfortable flying it to Mach 1.5ish which is where you would be with a J in either of those kits.

I can appreciate your response to people's advice. I have had my L2 for over 3 years now and have only flown two J's in that time. Like you I have the "it's there when I need it" mentality. I would like to suggest you either buy or borrow a tracker for your 2 shot. I can tell you for a fact that my L2 flight would not have been successful without cbrarick's tracker and his time helping me look for it. The Nuke landed about a mile and a half away in tall alfalfa. No way I would have found it without the tracker. I personally wouldn't futz around with the cell phone, too many variables to be reliable. From the videos I have seen of the ranch, getting them back isn't really an issue if you put in the leg work. Peace and have a ball doing it.
 
Absolutely. I know lots of people who have gone that route! I did my L1 and L2 in the same day, but I had also been flying L1 motors in the 7 years prior to that. :)

Last year I witnessed someone fly their NAR L1 rocket successfully, recover, then I administered their L2 test. Upon passing that, they flew that exact same rocket on L2 motor, also successfully.
Out of curiosity, who's N5800 project did you help out with?

Good luck, and hopefully see you at Black Rock this year.
 
I attempted my lvl 1 and 2's on the same day, while my friend attempted his lvl 2. He was successful, I got weather cocking/ rail whip on my lvl 2 cert flight and it went on a ballistic trajectory. The parachute deployed late and wound up around itself. Broke a few fins. Definitely a doable thing to do though with the right rocket. It was my first HPR flight, and my friends 2nd or 3rd.

We both used loc EZI-65 kits for our certs, removing the AV bay on it for the lvl 1 flight. Cant remember what the level 1 motor was anymore, but the lvl 2 was a J90w. A year or so later I tip to tip glassed my fins to fix them and flew it again for my lvl 2 cert on a J570. :D It was an amazing flight.
 
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I built my first rocket ever last summer and certified L1 and L2 with it on the same day... so yes it is most definitely possible to do both certs in one day.
 
I didn't know the EZI65 came with AVbays... I remember they were just a plain 4" paper rocket.

I got a fear flying it on a J350 though because one of the "you know you are a rocketeer when..." is "fly a EZI65 on a J350 just to watch it rain confetti"
 
I built my first rocket ever last summer and certified L1 and L2 with it on the same day... so yes it is most definitely possible to do both certs in one day.
...and in case you hadn't figured out, you were the "someone" I mentioned in my post above. :wink:
 
I have Verizon, and I get cell coverage at the ranch. And yes, hard landings are common, even though the ground is fairly soft, for the most part. But there are a lot of rocks, that are like magnets to rocket fins. I look forward to seeing your cert flights in person! Are you planning on this season?

I was planning on doing it on the 7th of February, but the test holder does not want me to do back to back cert. flights. :(

@AlnessW: It was Steve Jurveston's Matrix rocket that I assisted in.

Any ideas on convincing the test holder to allow me to try for back to back cert flights?
 
I didn't know the EZI65 came with AVbays... I remember they were just a plain 4" paper rocket.

I got a fear flying it on a J350 though because one of the "you know you are a rocketeer when..." is "fly a EZI65 on a J350 just to watch it rain confetti"

Well I guess it wouldn't really be a ready made AVbay, but the upper payload section seems like it would work nicely with a bit of modification.

Just put a little bit of fiberglass on it and you can make the ole EZI do this:



Though I am not sure I would fly these kinds of motors on it without some reinforcement...


Well he is the president of the club. Who else can administer the test to me?

And it was at XPRS.


As far as I know, anyone with a lvl 2 cert (or higher) and a official copy of the test. You could probably ask another lvl 2 in your club to ask the president for a copy to proctor it for you. Though I'd make sure you tell whoever you ask what the club president's opinions was on back to back flights. Otherwise might cause a bit of strife.
 
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As far as I know, anyone with a lvl 2 cert (or higher) and a official copy of the test. You could probably ask another lvl 2 in your club to ask the president for a copy to proctor it for you. Though I'd make sure you tell whoever you ask what the club president's opinions was on back to back flights. Otherwise might cause a bit of strife.

Check out post #22.
 
Dang, I forgot the EZI 65 came with a payload section... it was in 2001 so I guess I forget some things too.
 
As far as I know, anyone with a lvl 2 cert (or higher) and a official copy of the test. You could probably ask another lvl 2 in your club to ask the president for a copy to proctor it for you. Though I'd make sure you tell whoever you ask what the club president's opinions was on back to back flights. Otherwise might cause a bit of strife.
You are correct, ANY NAR member L2 or above can administer an L2 test. My experience was that I had to request them from our NAR section president. That same week he sent me several hard copies in the mail, and told me just to let him know when I need more. Now, I always keep them with me at launches in the event anyone needs to take one. :)
 
We had a member do TRA 1 & 2 on her 18th birthday with one rocket. She had planned to do this for years, i told her if her birthday was on a non launch day we would get a waiver just for her.
https://www.ahpra.org/ahpranov08.htm
As stated above show up early, be prepared and have all involved be reliable.

M
 
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