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Don't worry, prices will go back up. (Probably sooner rather than later.)
 
I'm enjoying the "Less Than 2 Bucks" pricing these days, but I don't benefit like those that travel a lot. Granted, I like knowing $20 now gives me 3/4 of a tank. As mentioned, get it while you can. It'll prolly be short lived. But regarding the job loss related to this price reduction, that's a far cry from the job loses we are now recovering from. One industry loosing jobs, cannot compare to the great many recovering from them.
 
After the depression, I wound up with an oil services company. It was the only offer I got after being out 10 months. Things don't look too good right now, as they've announced 7000 layoffs (worldwide). At least I don't have a house to lose this time. :dark:
 
I'm convinced this sudden 'run down' in oil prices is to put the squeeze on the Russians... the ruble has dropped in value by about 50% since the sanctions and all that related to the Ukrainian issue started, and Russia is particularly vulnerable to reduced oil revenues... making what they DO sell cheaper just cuts them even deeper. Throw in the fact that OPEC doesn't like the oil booms that have been going on in the US with the Bakken Shale in Nebraska and the Eagle Ford Shale in Texas, all the formations being opened up due to high oil prices making expensive production methods like fracking (which incidentally was invented around 1947 IIRC) and tar sands oil extraction in Canada actually affordable (after production costs are included-- high dollar oil makes these expensive extraction methods economically feasible-- cheap oil renders these expensive extraction methods too expensive to make a profit on the oil produced).

Basically, it's a win/win as far as the PTB's that want to put the screws to Putin's Russia are concerned, and for OPEC that wants to put a big kink in US domestic production by shutting as much of it down as possible.

Once the damage is done, drilling practically stops, and tens to hundreds of thousands are out of work while folks are content filling up on cheap OPEC oil, I GUARANTEE it'll shoot right back up again... I heard that folks shouldn't get too accustomed to these prices at the pump-- it's likely to be back over $4 a gallon, maybe even $5, by the end of the year...

That's how it typically works.

In the meantime, the last thing this economy needs (despite all the cheery talk about how wonderfully the economy is doing, which is basically bragging on the bubble they've created that can pop at any minute given enough prodding) is a big job downturn that just might give it a strong enough poke to pop it...

Later! OL JR :)
 
The price of crude oil, and by derivation gasoline, is not easily explained. I'll try to simplify, please excuse a limited amount of hand waving (I can't talk otherwise) and I'm sure I'm going to skip over some important details.
[takes a deep breath]
Like most things, the price is dependent upon supply and demand. But, like diamonds, supply can be regulated to maintain price; it's difficult to reduce demand significantly, especially over a short time period (although the US has done an admirable job with fuel efficiency in vehicles and alternative energy sources). Compounding this is the fact that oil is a speculated commodity. People bet on whether/how much the price will go up or down. This adds to the cost. Eliminate casual speculation, or force speculators to take actual delivery, and the price will go down


There have been two main elements driving the price up in the past six years, both relate to government policy (this is not a political rant). First, getting back to supply and demand. Governmental regulations have significantly reduced exploration and production on government-controlled lands, and shallow off-shore. This shifted the drilling/pumping to private land or deep water off-shore, both more expensive. There have also been restrictions to exploration and development in Alaska. These factors mean less and more expensive oil here in the US.


Why has the cost of oil abroad gone up? The other oil producers and exporters (ie OPEC) have the capacity to make up for the reduction in US production. This is where the other piece of governmental policy falls into place. Oil is paid for in US Dollars. The actual value of the Dollar has fallen worldwide due to policies such as Quantitative Easing, where the US government just prints more money to pay debts. The Dollar has no hard value (like being backed by gold), so in addition to inflationary depreciation, QE and other policies reduce its buying power.


Great! So that's why the price went up, why did it fall by half?
Supply and demand. Because of financial motivation, other factors like the environment have driven a movement towards smaller and more efficient cars. This reduced (or at least stabilized) the demand for oil (in the US). Then comes the boom in the past six months where shake oil extraction and fracking are starting to get more crude out of the ground. Supply is now exceeding old demand. A side effect of cheap gas has been a recent increased demand in larger cars/trucks/SUVs.


Saudi Arabia has decided to ride this cheap oil wave and not reduce capacity. Their stated thoughts are that 1) they might as well sell a lot of cheap oil rather than reduce capacity and sell only a little cheap oil, and 2), they don't think the cheap crude glut from shale oil can be sustained for very long. They think they will undercut the market to the point where shale/fracked oil is no longer so cheap to produce, then the cost will go back up. Their stratagy in 2) seems to be on course. However, I doubt that the price will go back up to the >$100/barrel it once was. There will be a new equilibrium point reached that keeps the shale oil guys in business AND makes OPEC happy. One of the things that has not yet come into play is the Keystone pipeline. It will allow even more inexpensive oil to come into the country.


Meanwhile, the new price point, whatever it is, will be significantly lower. This will do considerable damage to countries like Russia and Venezuela whose economies are dependent on oil exports at a high Dollar amount (both countries desperately need Dollars coming into their economies). It will also damage black market oil sales grom groups like ISIS and in Nigeria.


Or I could be wrong...(I make most everything I post on the forum up from thin air)
 
Hmm. I was going to write a reply but it would get me banned for multiple reasons: blatant politics and extensive use of a wide variety of obscenities.

So I'll clean it up as much as possible:

Big Oil has been having (impossibly obscene sexual metaphor) with the American public for about seven years now. They bent us all over the (insert random piece of furniture), cranked the prices up to the moon, continued to (impossibly obscene sexual metaphor) us until they pretty much busted the economy (there were plenty of other reasons behind it too but rapacious oil profits were a huge reason behind the crash) so if all of a sudden the price has nose dived and they are the ones getting (impossibly obscene sexual metaphor)'ed for a change, all I can say is "boo (impossibly obscene sexual metaphor)'ing hoo for them."

It is, however, simultaneously hilarious, infuriating and utterly predictable that certain political gasbags have taken to the air and op-ed pages, explaining to us in all seriousness why Joe Sixpack should feel guilty about low gas prices and be fully supportive of paying massively higher prices when they are jacked back up.
 
There either IS enough oil to keep the world turning or there isn’t.
You can’t have it both ways unless the game is rigged.
Five dollar gasoline one month, two dollars the next and I can guarantee you that nobody in the higher reaches of power is losing any money selling gasoline at $2 a gallon.
And while we’re at it; have you noticed that while gasoline prices have plummeted diesel fuel prices have held much the same.

I have read several articles from “People in the know” that have variously stated that gas prices will shortly start rising and swiftly go beyond $5 national average and others that say we will see them stay at these prices for at least three years.

And the carousal goes round and round.

It is interesting to note that the “Great recession” and the “Housing Bust” occurred not long after gas/diesel prices hit all-time highs and stayed there.

There were/are a whole lot of people in California that commute better than 100 miles each way, each day five or six days a week to their jobs.
Suddenly their transportation costs double and their income stays the same; something’s got to give and suddenly a whole lot of Californians’ can’t pay their mortgage.
Having your spouse lose their job didn’t help things any and does anybody really see a return to those conditions being practical/possible?
You simply can’t have so much of the populations disposable income going into only one sector of the economy, energy, and expect said economy to thrive and that is what we have had happening for the past umpty-dump years.

There is a simple factor in all of this that nobody in power in Washington of either side seems to comprehend.

If for example there are 200million Americans that need jobs to support themselves and any family they may have and there is only the need for 100million workers to perform all the necessary work.

What do you do with the remaining 100million?

Rant button now in OFF position
 
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There either IS enough oil to keep the world turning or there isn’t.
You can’t have it both ways unless the game is rigged.
Five dollar gasoline one month, two dollars the next and I can guarantee you that nobody in the higher reaches of power is losing any money selling gasoline at $2 a gallon.
And while we’re at it; have you noticed that while gasoline prices have plummeted diesel fuel prices have held much the same.

I have read several articles from “People in the know” that have variously stated that gas prices will shortly start rising and swiftly go beyond $5 national average and others that say we will see them stay at these prices for at least three years.

And the carousal goes round and round.

It is interesting to note that the “Great recession” and the “Housing Bust” occurred not long after gas/diesel prices hit all-time highs and stayed there.

There were/are a whole lot of people in California that commute better than 100 miles each way, each day five or six days a week to their jobs.
Suddenly their transportation costs double and their income stays the same; something’s got to give and suddenly a whole lot of Californians’ can’t pay their mortgage.
Having your spouse lose their job didn’t help things any and does anybody really see a return to those conditions being practical/possible?
You simply can’t have so much of the populations disposable income going into only one sector of the economy, energy, and expect said economy to thrive and that is what we have had happening for the past umpty-dump years.

There is a simple factor in all of this that nobody in power in Washington of either side seems to comprehend.

If for example there are 200million Americans that need jobs to support themselves and any family they may have; there is only the need for 100million workers to perform all the necessary work.

What do you do with the remaining 100million?

Rant button now in OFF position

You're not ranting its the truth. Well said!
 
I'm convinced this sudden 'run down' in oil prices is to put the squeeze on the Russians... the ruble has dropped in value by about 50% since the sanctions and all that related to the Ukrainian issue started, and Russia is particularly vulnerable to reduced oil revenues... making what they DO sell cheaper just cuts them even deeper. Throw in the fact that OPEC doesn't like the oil booms that have been going on in the US with the Bakken Shale in Nebraska and the Eagle Ford Shale in Texas, all the formations being opened up due to high oil prices making expensive production methods like fracking (which incidentally was invented around 1947 IIRC) and tar sands oil extraction in Canada actually affordable (after production costs are included-- high dollar oil makes these expensive extraction methods economically feasible-- cheap oil renders these expensive extraction methods too expensive to make a profit on the oil produced).

Basically, it's a win/win as far as the PTB's that want to put the screws to Putin's Russia are concerned, and for OPEC that wants to put a big kink in US domestic production by shutting as much of it down as possible.

Once the damage is done, drilling practically stops, and tens to hundreds of thousands are out of work while folks are content filling up on cheap OPEC oil, I GUARANTEE it'll shoot right back up again... I heard that folks shouldn't get too accustomed to these prices at the pump-- it's likely to be back over $4 a gallon, maybe even $5, by the end of the year...

That's how it typically works.

In the meantime, the last thing this economy needs (despite all the cheery talk about how wonderfully the economy is doing, which is basically bragging on the bubble they've created that can pop at any minute given enough prodding) is a big job downturn that just might give it a strong enough poke to pop it...

Later! OL JR :)
I agree 100% with that analysis. However, there are even more factors involved, as could be expected.

https://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/why-oil-is-headed-below-35barrel/

On the jobs downturn, virtually all of the real job gains for quite some time have come from that sector and the job figures, like most government economic/employment figures, are manipulated garbage anyway. On employment, here's the graph that counts:

Civilian labor force participation rate (percent)

latest_numbers_LNS11300000_1978_2014_all_period_M12_data.gif


Note that back in 1978, fewer households required two incomes, so the impact of the lower participation rate was significantly less than it is now.

EDIT: Here's another interesting chart:

household-incomes-mean-real.gif
 
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It's hurting Houston. It's not pretty. It's looking worse than the downturn of early '09. Hopefully not as bad as '85.

Greg
 
I live in Western Oklahoma in a town that lives and dies with the oil/natural gas business and it’s not looking good for the foreseeable future. Makes you wonder what’s going to happen to those N. Dakota “Boom Towns” now that the Boom has gone Bust.

Elk City used to be split pretty evenly between energy and agriculture but five years of drought has seen Western Oklahoma’s agri-business dry-up worse than all the local fishing ponds. Currently W. Oklahoma’s agri-business is somewhat less than half what it was ten years ago with cattle production even lower than that. None of which is coming back even if the drought conditions end.

And what are all these young men, and nine out of ten field jobs in the energy sector economy are men, going to do now that the wheels have come off the high wage gravy train they are accustomed to?
Going from $120,000 or more a year to Wal-Mart wages is harsh, especially as most of these young men have little formal education beyond High School and are used to living much like it was still the Wild, Wild West.

I think there is one string to this bow that even the conspiratorial Tin-Foil Hat crowd is overlooking. I’d go into it but that might take this topic to far into politics.
 
I think the Saudis are trying to screw Iran and Russia over their conflicting interests in Syria. And if it hurts some US shale oil producers in the US, that's a bonus to them.
 
We could always stop selling US oil on the international commodity market. Keep it all internal, and stop buying external from external sources (maybe Canada's) Let our money stay internal, find our own equilibrium point as far as cost, and stick it to OPEC/ Russia. Just a thought. Employee our people, keep our money here versus the continuation of the largest transfer of wealth in history, and maybe everyone who matters will be happy.

Another thought- perhaps we should be expand our refining capacity. That way if one goes down the rest can pick up the slack?
 
We could always stop selling US oil on the international commodity market. Keep it all internal, and stop buying external from external sources (maybe Canada's) Let our money stay internal, find our own equilibrium point as far as cost, and stick it to OPEC/ Russia. Just a thought. Employee our people, keep our money here versus the continuation of the largest transfer of wealth in history, and maybe everyone who matters will be happy.

Another thought- perhaps we should be expand our refining capacity. That way if one goes down the rest can pick up the slack?

You're going to have a hard time telling oil companies that they have to sell only in the US, not to the world market.
 
Perhaps. It depends on how you view it. If you can sell 100% of your product internally and not have to deal with OPEC or other external sources, control your supply and costs, it could work.

I understand that this a massive change in thought and process. It might break some other countries economies, but frankly I am not too concerned with the economy of Saudi Arabia or others of their ilk. Whoops, there goes the Petro dollar.

If oil is a finite resource, and we have a bunch of it why not use it? I am for free market, and I am saying the market should set the price- just internal to the U.S. and possibly Canada. Let the others transfer their wealth to those lovely folks in OPEC.
 
I think the Saudis are trying to screw Iran and Russia over their conflicting interests in Syria. And if it hurts some US shale oil producers in the US, that's a bonus to them.

If oil is a finite resource, and we have a bunch of it why not use it? I am for free market, and I am saying the market should set the price- just internal to the U.S. and possibly Canada. Let the others transfer their wealth to those lovely folks in OPEC.

I think there are a bunch of reasons, but the major ones are just what Thirsty says.

Oil is a finite resource, but (having grown up in the doom and gloom era of the 70's and 80's), it doesn't look like we are going to run out of it any time soon. However, developing other alternatives would keep us (and others) from sending all our money overseas and funding some not-so-friendly governments and terrorist organizations. There were some good articles somewhere (can't remember) about how ISIS (or whatever they are called nowadays) are funding themselves by selling oil on the black market for cheap. Since it is so cheap, people look the other way, but ISIS still gets their money.
 
New York has 63.5 cents per gallon tax (state and fed) so I haven't seen anything below $2.29/gal yet. I'm guess with the rulers Saudi Arabia changing and our government seriously discussing raising the federal tax rate, NY is not going to see $2.00/gal any time soon. If it stays close to where it is I can definitely make some more launches in the up coming season.
 
We could always stop selling US oil on the international commodity market. Keep it all internal, and stop buying external from external sources (maybe Canada's) Let our money stay internal, find our own equilibrium point as far as cost, and stick it to OPEC/ Russia. Just a thought. Employee our people, keep our money here versus the continuation of the largest transfer of wealth in history, and maybe everyone who matters will be happy.

Funny thing is that we have exported oil for a long time now. Refineries are very specific and set to turn X into Y. A number of our refineries right now, are tooled to refine oil that is not necessarily the oil that is produced in America. Because of all the regulation, modifying a refinery is so onerous that it is actually profitable to bring tankers full of other oil and ship ours elsewhere. I have not kept up with the new refinery business, but I think I heard a while back someone wanted to open a new one. This is almost literally a nightmare of regulations and BS, so this is why people with the money want to open other types of businesses that are merely regulated in excess by government instead of oil refineries which are strangulated.
 
Just a heads up folks, The fed, state, county, and / or municipal governments will take this lull in prices to increase the taxes... It's gonna happen.

"Hey, let's add $0.30 to the price of each gallon of gas to get more money in the coffers, nobody will really notice that at these prices", which is good and bad. Reasonably Intelligent entities will utilize these additional tax dollars to fix roads and improve infrastructure while others will reduce debt. Even more will return wages to post crash levels, or at least, raise gov't workers pay.

Hopefully, this will really not matter much, as gas prices are slightly influenced by the amount of taxes applied...but only slightly.

13MPG ain't feeling so bad right now...
 
I live in Western Oklahoma in a town that lives and dies with the oil/natural gas business and it’s not looking good for the foreseeable future. Makes you wonder what’s going to happen to those N. Dakota “Boom Towns” now that the Boom has gone Bust.

Elk City used to be split pretty evenly between energy and agriculture but five years of drought has seen Western Oklahoma’s agri-business dry-up worse than all the local fishing ponds. Currently W. Oklahoma’s agri-business is somewhat less than half what it was ten years ago with cattle production even lower than that. None of which is coming back even if the drought conditions end.

And what are all these young men, and nine out of ten field jobs in the energy sector economy are men, going to do now that the wheels have come off the high wage gravy train they are accustomed to?
Going from $120,000 or more a year to Wal-Mart wages is harsh, especially as most of these young men have little formal education beyond High School and are used to living much like it was still the Wild, Wild West.

I think there is one string to this bow that even the conspiratorial Tin-Foil Hat crowd is overlooking. I’d go into it but that might take this topic to far into politics.

Interesting you mention agriculture... a topic with which I have considerable familiarity...

This is a common theme throughout "cattle country"... droughts have repeated struck the various areas of the country producing most of our beef and livestock, usually repeatedly. Some areas have faced years of drought, some with short breaks and returns to drought, etc. First it was the southeast, then the mid-south, then Texas, then the far west, then the Great Plains, the Midwest, Texas again, the west, just a neverending cycle. I know the last big hit in southwest Texas a few years ago, most of the cattlemen had to sell out and just decided not to restock. Selling cattle for 30-40 cents a pound and then having to re-buy livestock at $1.40 a pound isn't a profitable scenario in ANYBODY'S book. Since the average age of farmers in the US is basically around the point most folks could draw Social Security, and the age of most southwest Texas ranchers is higher than that, one cannot blame them for not wanting to spend the money to start over from scratch.

This vicious cycle has repeated itself across the country time and time again. The result is that a lot of producers that were in the cattle business have disappeared forever, retired, gone broke, sold out, whatever. Those who remain have either had to sell off their stock or severely cull their herds to survive the droughts in their area, and have only restocked to a limited amount, so their herds are much smaller than they have been in the past. Where we used to run 65-70 head at Shiner, I'm currently running 37 at the moment. Similarly here on this farm we've run as high as 55-60 head, but I've sold down to 35 or so at the moment. This is pretty typical. Some other areas of the country have increased their herd size, but it's not enough to offset millions of head being sold off over the course of years.

Meanwhile, the "cattle market" analysts and economists and "farm policy" wonks keep screaming at the top of their lungs that the "market signals" are *demanding* that ranchers increase their herd size and production, meanwhile cattle numbers have shrunk to the lowest levels in 60 years... What they fail to realize or won't admit is that "market signals" are *irrelevant* to the REALITIES of lack of grazing, feed, and personal/business financial repercussions of having to sell off or severely cull and then restock. That's why, as I recently saw in a news report, where they reported that beef brisket prices have increased 62% in the last year... and of course food prices have generally followed suit, regardless of what it is (meat, milk, produce, grains, etc.)

I have to laugh every time I read the couple of free farm magazines I get... The 'ag press', parroting the buzzword talk of ag policy wonks, big agribiz, and ag college professors and researchers, is that "we have to double agricultural production over the next 20 years for the world not to fall into mass starvation". This is a COMPLETE pipe-dream... ag production has plateaued and what growth in production there has been has been minor or short term gains due to the introductions of new technologies, not massive "game changers" like the "green revolution" of the 1950's... (things like genetically engineered crops, new pesticide chemistries and systems, improved genetics from breeding programs, etc.) The "low hanging fruit" has all been picked LONG ago-- we've reached "the area of diminishing returns" a couple decades ago... Most folks tend to think that doubling production is as simple as "cranking up the inputs", doubling fertilizer and pesticide use to reduce weed competition and insect/disease destruction... nothing could be further from the truth! One can double their costs of production (inputs) and still only increase production by maybe a few dozen bushels per acre at most, maybe 15-20% at most. Of course such increases would be COMPLETELY unprofitable. In fact, with the current nosedive of ALL crop prices (more or less) farmers are looking for ways to cut production costs as much as possible without adversely affecting yields. The government and ag policy has been structured around "record farm income" over the past several years, due to high grain prices, ethanol production increasing demand, increasing international trade, etc. Now that prices have taken a hard nosedive in farm country (the days of five dollar a bushel corn and 10-12 dollar a bushel soybeans is over-- prices have fallen by about a third or more in the past year, and show no signs of increasing in a meaningful way in the next year). The "farm bill" is no longer about farmers and farming, but mostly about food stamps and other handout programs with essentially NO bearing on increased profitability or income in farm country but a vote-buying machine for politicians. I heard recently that due to cotton being removed from being a farm program crop, coupled with low market prices with little/no promise of improving, with ever-increasing costs for inputs (cotton is already one of the highest-cost crops to grow, which is why we quit row-crop farming a decade or so ago), has led a lot of mid-south farmers to say they're going to not plant at all this year-- either let their land lie fallow, or plant alternative crops like peanuts. Low corn and grain prices have made rotating into grains far less lucrative than it might have been in years past.

It's easy to see we're headed for a train wreck in the coming years... record high prices in the stores, but farmers getting a pittance and going broke, letting poorer producing farms/fields lie fallow and focusing on their best land, all the while reducing production at the very time that it's "necessary" to increase production. Of course it seems to escape the policy wonks that the more farmers produce, the cheaper the prices get; the more farmers have to spend to produce it while the less they make per-bushel, pound, or whatever.

It's going to get a LOT worse before it gets better... Much like oil, speculators are killing the agricultural pricing structure and siphoning off the profits that keep farmers producing. Sooner or later, the system will implode if corrections aren't made. Personally I'd like to see "speculation" in the stock and commodities markets banned, and violators thrown into prison. If you want to speculate, go to Vegas and bet on the games... and stop playing games with the essentials of life and those that produce them (either big oil or down on the farm-- it's all the same in the end...)

Later! OL JR :)
 
Just a heads up folks, The fed, state, county, and / or municipal governments will take this lull in prices to increase the taxes... It's gonna happen.

"Hey, let's add $0.30 to the price of each gallon of gas to get more money in the coffers, nobody will really notice that at these prices", which is good and bad. Reasonably Intelligent entities will utilize these additional tax dollars to fix roads and improve infrastructure while others will reduce debt. Even more will return wages to post crash levels, or at least, raise gov't workers pay.

Hopefully, this will really not matter much, as gas prices are slightly influenced by the amount of taxes applied...but only slightly.

13MPG ain't feeling so bad right now...

https://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/docs/Gas-Taxes-(Large).png

Good point! OL JR :)
 
I'm not gonna worry until water prices spike... Then we're (colorful metaphor)'d.
 
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