Help me understand AMW, AMW Pro-X, Gorilla, and Loki

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AlnessW

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Hi all - some of the above motor manufacturers have been a bit confusing for me...

For starters, my understanding was that AMW went out of business when the owner passed away many years ago. Are AMW reloads still being manufactured by a company called AMW Pro-X? As I understand, someone named Robert DeHate is involved with all that. But the company name sounds as though CTI maybe involved or... ?

Now for Gorilla and Loki, it would "appear" as though they use the same snap-ring hardware as all of the above manufacturers. Where would one source such hardware, exactly?
 
Loki, Gorilla, and AMW share the same tube dimensions, except Loki's 38mm.

All have their own front bulkheads and nozzles.

Reloads for AMW hardware are made by CTI, as well as some sketchy, non-warrantied (but otherwise incredibly bada$$) Aerotech KBA Animal-Compatible loads. You get the AMW hardware from AMW.

Reloads for Loki hardware are from Loki, and so is the hardware.

Same with Gorilla.

But if you have a case size which is shared, you can just use the corresponding bulkheads and nozzles and share the tube.
 
But if you have a case size which is shared, you can just use the corresponding bulkheads and nozzles and share the tube.

Of course, just to keep it interesting, the size numbers don't always match between loki and others. :)
 
Loki, Gorilla, and AMW share the same tube dimensions, except Loki's 38mm.

All have their own front bulkheads and nozzles.

Reloads for AMW hardware are made by CTI, as well as some sketchy, non-warrantied (but otherwise incredibly bada$$) Aerotech KBA Animal-Compatible loads. You get the AMW hardware from AMW.

Reloads for Loki hardware are from Loki, and so is the hardware.

Same with Gorilla.

But if you have a case size which is shared, you can just use the corresponding bulkheads and nozzles and share the tube.
Cool, thank you! When you say "Reloads for AMW hardware are made by CTI" I assume you mean the AMW Pro-X thing I mentioned earlier? Same for hardware? Why no warranty on KBA reloads?

Of course, just to keep it interesting, the size numbers don't always match between loki and others. :)
Oh great... :)

One other question: Kosdon = ??
 
Frank Kosdon was a propellant pioneer who sadly passed away a few years back. I think the company is gone and reloads are sparse, but I heard they were awesome.
 
Cool, thank you! When you say "Reloads for AMW hardware are made by CTI" I assume you mean the AMW Pro-X thing I mentioned earlier? Same for hardware?

Robert DeHate and Gloria Robinson own AMW-ProX. They are in partnership with CTI. They are out of Massachusetts, but attend launches all over the country. They will trade you a CTI casing for any Aerotech casing of same or lesser size, and participate in the "free CTI casing with cert motor purchase" promotion.
 
Kosdon was a one man show, and he as others noted died a few years ago. Hardware is scarce but turns up occasionally. The actual Kosdon loads are likely either all burned or in possession of flyers.

AMW exists as a dealer now, but do not make any propellant anymore- shame as they made some excellent stuff.
 
Robert DeHate and Gloria Robinson own AMW-ProX. They are in partnership with CTI. They are out of Massachusetts, but attend launches all over the country. They will trade you a CTI casing for any Aerotech casing of same or lesser size, and participate in the "free CTI casing with cert motor purchase" promotion.

Kosdon was a one man show, and he as others noted died a few years ago. Hardware is scarce but turns up occasionally. The actual Kosdon loads are likely either all burned or in possession of flyers.

AMW exists as a dealer now, but do not make any propellant anymore- shame as they made some excellent stuff.
Interesting stuff here - thanks guys. Out of curiosity, does AMW Pro-X manufacture AMW reloads above 54mm? That's the largest size I see on their website...
 
You are looking at the wrong site. AMW is not a manufacturer. Look at pro38.com, which is the Cesaroni website. To answer you question, there are a couple 75mm loads an L and a M
 
May I ask why you want to understand these paticular brands of motors, are you in the market or just intrested in the differences?

TA
 
Performance hobbies still lists Kosdon cases and motors for sale. Dont know if they just have not updated their website.
 
Performance hobbies still lists Kosdon cases and motors for sale. Dont know if they just have not updated their website.

I'm almost positive that the stock is up to date. Ken has a little bit of everything. Last year he had bags of Kosdon 38mm grains.
 
Ken has at least one of everything in that trailer. The question is whether he can find it :)
 
He even has a mannequin head in the trailer. :p

Even if you can't find Kosdon cases new... I remember a decent amount of them have popped up in Yard sale in the last few months. Maybe post a wanted ad and see if anybody has one that they are willing to part with.
 
I'm almost positive that the stock is up to date. Ken has a little bit of everything. Last year he had bags of Kosdon 38mm grains.

Been waiting 2 and a half months for AT 29/120 complete motor. Listed as in stock.
 
Have you contacted him? Are you saying that he has not shipped it for 2 and a half months? Call him. He will set it straight. :)
 
You are looking at the wrong site. AMW is not a manufacturer. Look at pro38.com, which is the Cesaroni website. To answer you question, there are a couple 75mm loads an L and a M
Ah ha! I see that now. It would appear as though the M2200 Skidmark is now an M2050 Skidmark?

May I ask why you want to understand these paticular brands of motors, are you in the market or just intrested in the differences?

TA
Good question - just interested in the differences as they was never quite clear to me. In fact, recently I've been trying to pull out of commercial motors entirely...

Yes. Stuff happens. All that I am saying in this thread is that his website is not updated very quickly.
We'll leave that to the vendor forum.
 
I bought a lot of those 38mm bags of grains last May from him at a launch in orangeburg

I'm almost positive that the stock is up to date. Ken has a little bit of everything. Last year he had bags of Kosdon 38mm grains.
 
Just a note, the M2200 and the M2050 are NOT the same animal. I have used both, very disappointed in the 2050. Nothing beats a classic M2200!!
 
The M2200 is the best skidmark, anywhere. Too bad you can't find one.
The next best one was his K1000 skid. I don't believe that there are any more for sale, but I can take comfort in owning a baker's dozen of them
 
Good question - just interested in the differences as they was never quite clear to me. In fact, recently I've been trying to pull out of commercial motors entirely...

Well snap ring cases are a good place to go then. In the beginning I wish I had gone this route, I fly Loki exclusively now save the 29mm stuff. As for hardware difference you wont find that much, some different case lengths and forward bulkheads mostly all of it is mostly really good quality. Loki uses a new high grade graphite nozzle it makes for some really nice nozzles.

I can't tell you about AMW hardware or propellant as I have never used it. Gorilla makes some fine stuff and has a nice selection of propellant for those days that you cant fly EX. Although sadly I see that Jim will no longer make 38mm motors.

Loki makes some great hardware and some of the best propellant I have seen, with a growing range of reloads and some of the most powerful commercially available motors on the market. Its great EX hardware and for the non EX launch days you wont be left out in the cold. As an added bonus nine 38mm Loki reloads have no hazmat.

One of the misconceptions I have been working on debunking is the that snap ring cases are for EX only, and a harder system to use, not for beginners. When in fact I find them to be far more reliable and easier to use than other types of hardware. A fresh O-ring on your nozzle and forward bulkhead drop in your liner and propellant and put your forward back on and snap ring it down. True its not tool-less and there is another added expense of a GOOD pair of snap ring pliers but hey who doesn't like to buy tools. :)


TA
 
As others have said, the AMW propellant is from CTI. Red Rhino is Red Lightning, etc. You can look them up on the AMW ProX site. If you have the AMW hardware, like the 2550 motor, the CTI for AMW reloads are &50 - $55 a load cheaper than the comparable CTI loads. CTI L1030 RL is $173, and CTI for AMW L1276 RR is $120. That is kind of fun. If you fly enough loads, you essentially get the case free in savings. I fly CTI, but also have the AMW 2550 motor for fun. The AMW Prox site is also a good place to purchase either CTI or CTI for AMW online if you have to. No sales tax, and flat $35 shipping on motors. I support the local vendors as much as possible. I have purchased a number of motors from Robert and Gloria and they are nice to work with.
 
As others have said, the AMW propellant is from CTI. Red Rhino is Red Lightning, etc. You can look them up on the AMW ProX site. If you have the AMW hardware, like the 2550 motor, the CTI for AMW reloads are &50 - $55 a load cheaper than the comparable CTI loads. CTI L1030 RL is $173, and CTI for AMW L1276 RR is $120. That is kind of fun. If you fly enough loads, you essentially get the case free in savings. I fly CTI, but also have the AMW 2550 motor for fun. The AMW Prox site is also a good place to purchase either CTI or CTI for AMW online if you have to. No sales tax, and flat $35 shipping on motors. I support the local vendors as much as possible. I have purchased a number of motors from Robert and Gloria and they are nice to work with.

I also have the AMW 54-2550 motor just bought 2 K-1075 skids this morning from Robert atAMW. Thanks for coming to the launch this morning.Look forward to this reload been wanting to try this load for sometime. Only launched it on KBA K-1750 and L-2300
 
Just a note, the M2200 and the M2050 are NOT the same animal. I have used both, very disappointed in the 2050. Nothing beats a classic M2200!!
The M2200 is the best skidmark, anywhere. Too bad you can't find one.
The next best one was his K1000 skid. I don't believe that there are any more for sale, but I can take comfort in owning a baker's dozen of them
Just as I thought...
The M2200 was awesome!! I have a special "connection" with that motor, as I distinctly remember one being flown at the first high power launch I ever attended. (I was about 9 years old at that moment.) I stood there in shock and awe as I immediately knew I would be back again soon!

Well snap ring cases are a good place to go then. In the beginning I wish I had gone this route, I fly Loki exclusively now save the 29mm stuff. As for hardware difference you wont find that much, some different case lengths and forward bulkheads mostly all of it is mostly really good quality. Loki uses a new high grade graphite nozzle it makes for some really nice nozzles.

I can't tell you about AMW hardware or propellant as I have never used it. Gorilla makes some fine stuff and has a nice selection of propellant for those days that you cant fly EX. Although sadly I see that Jim will no longer make 38mm motors.

Loki makes some great hardware and some of the best propellant I have seen, with a growing range of reloads and some of the most powerful commercially available motors on the market. Its great EX hardware and for the non EX launch days you wont be left out in the cold. As an added bonus nine 38mm Loki reloads have no hazmat.

One of the misconceptions I have been working on debunking is the that snap ring cases are for EX only, and a harder system to use, not for beginners. When in fact I find them to be far more reliable and easier to use than other types of hardware. A fresh O-ring on your nozzle and forward bulkhead drop in your liner and propellant and put your forward back on and snap ring it down. True its not tool-less and there is another added expense of a GOOD pair of snap ring pliers but hey who doesn't like to buy tools. :)


TA
Indeed - thanks TA! As I move into research motors I am having someone do some custom work for me with regards to snap-ring hardware. I get the sense they're much simpler than Rouse-Tech cases - just 2 o-rings (?), a forward bulkhead, nozzle, washer, and a couple of snap rings... And yeah, who DOESN'T like to buy tools. ;)

As others have said, the AMW propellant is from CTI. Red Rhino is Red Lightning, etc. You can look them up on the AMW ProX site. If you have the AMW hardware, like the 2550 motor, the CTI for AMW reloads are &50 - $55 a load cheaper than the comparable CTI loads. CTI L1030 RL is $173, and CTI for AMW L1276 RR is $120. That is kind of fun. If you fly enough loads, you essentially get the case free in savings. I fly CTI, but also have the AMW 2550 motor for fun. The AMW Prox site is also a good place to purchase either CTI or CTI for AMW online if you have to. No sales tax, and flat $35 shipping on motors. I support the local vendors as much as possible. I have purchased a number of motors from Robert and Gloria and they are nice to work with.
Cool - thanks for the info! I have definitely heard good things about working with Robert/Gloria.
 
CarVac said:
Loki, Gorilla, and AMW share the same tube dimensions, except Loki's 38mm.
...... if you have a case size which is shared, you can just use the corresponding bulkheads and nozzles and share the tube.

One caveat to this is the Gorilla 54/2550. The internal dimensions of the Gorilla case differ from that of AMW or Loki Research. The retaining ring end margin (distance between snap ring groove and the end of the case) is .200" on the Gorilla 54/2550. The end margin for the AMW 2550 and Loki Research 2800 case is .250" The .100" extra space should be taken up with an extra nozzle washer placed at the top of the bulkhead if using the Gorilla 2550 case with AMW 54/2550 reloads or Loki Research 54/2800 reloads.

One other difference in the Loki Research hardware (most all, but not all) is that I have made efforts to make the thrust rings more compatible with retainers like Slimline by reducing the thrust rings outside diameter, making them thinner, and in the 38's, moving it back further to the end of the case. I do not believe Slimline retainers will work with Gorilla or AMW of any size without major grinding down of the thrust ring.
 
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