Too cold for a plastic paracute?

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Benzee1

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I finally got to launch today. Been below freezing temps. Then when temps raised this weekend, it was windy! So this morning I took advantage of the "no wind" and went to the park. It was 34 f.
My little rocket (estes crossfire) hit maybe 7-800' first flight, maybe 900-1000 second flight. Parachute deployed but did not open. It was kinda erect and stiff. (get ur mind outta da gutter!)
I folded my chutes as my dad taught me when I was a kid. He said doing this way the cute will always open. Here's a video of the same. Except I use talcum powder also.
Is 34 too cold for plastic parachutes?

[video]https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIClJL1UJG4A.RT7w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTByZW c0dGJtBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMQ--?p=rocket+parachute+folding&vid=28f2d3ef2c00897945a29326861b3734&l=1%3A47&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DVN.6 08047454058974268%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Ds _mmudcx96k&tit=Instructions+for+Building+Model+Rockets+%3A+Pa rachute+Folding+for+Model+Rockets&c=0&sigr=11b9lve1s&sigt=12dsvlpdu&sigi=11r2qfkst&age%5B0%5D=1199125121&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av%2Cm%3Asa&fr=yfp-t-307-s&tt=b[/video]
 
Too hot and too cold can cause the plastic parachute to become a parawad like you experienced. Couple of questions:

How long was the chute packed in the airframe ? It's good practice to re-pack (and re-powder) immediately before launch, especially when temps are at either extreme.

How big a parachute and how big a body tube ? As you probably know, you want to fold the chute in such a way that it has some room to move within the airframe (not stuffed in).




[edit] Sorry, need to read all the words... The Crossfire has a BT50 tube (approx. 1 inch diameter) and a twelve inch parachute I believe so a good folding technique is required. [edit]
 
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Sounds like the temperature was to blame.

An idea for cold launching would be to switch to either a streamer for the recovery (say crepe paper), or keep your parachutes warm (using body heat) until it's time to launch.

So, what was the damage to the rocket?
 
Either my build was exceptional or the rocket is very solid from estes! :)
No damage. I was really impressed. It's descent was slower than I expected. After the first launch, I recovered the rocket, stretched out the chute, refolded, repacked and launched again. The rocket went even higher than before, but when It landed, no damage at all. I'm sure landing on dried out grass helped a lot.
I just checked the chute and it's not stiff and packed together like earlier. Guess I need a nylon one.
 
Benzee1 said:
I finally got to launch today. Been below freezing temps. Then when temps raised this weekend, it was windy! So this morning I took advantage of the "no wind" and went to the park. It was 34 f.
My little rocket (estes crossfire) hit maybe 7-800' first flight, maybe 900-1000 second flight. Parachute deployed but did not open. It was kinda erect and stiff. (get ur mind outta da gutter!)
I folded my chutes as my dad taught me when I was a kid. He said doing this way the cute will always open. Here's a video of the same. Except I use talcum powder also.
Is 34 too cold for plastic parachutes?

[video]https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIClJL1UJG4A.RT7w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTByZW c0dGJtBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMQ--?p=rocket+parachute+folding&vid=28f2d3ef2c00897945a29326861b3734&l=1%3A47&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DVN.6 08047454058974268%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Ds _mmudcx96k&tit=Instructions+for+Building+Model+Rockets+%3A+Pa rachute+Folding+for+Model+Rockets&c=0&sigr=11b9lve1s&sigt=12dsvlpdu&sigi=11r2qfkst&age%5B0%5D=1199125121&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av%2Cm%3Asa&fr=yfp-t-307-s&tt=b[/video]
Click to expand...

Plastic chutes DO tend to get very stiff if exposed to cold temperatures for extended periods... resulting in "plastic wad" recoveries, as you discovered.

The best way to avoid this fate is to keep the rockets and/or parachutes inside a warm vehicle during cold-weather flying until they're actually ready to go on the launch rod and be launched as quickly as possible. Granted, this is much easier to do when flying by yourself or with a limited number of friends, and can be very difficult to do in club-launch type setting with long on-pad wait times. Dusting the chute with talcum powder helps with stickiness causing the chute to not fully deploy, but doesn't really do much for the stiffening of the plastic material due to the effects of cold. The only REAL solution is to keep the rocket as warm as possible and avoid long cold-soaks out in the wind (or chilly still air) on the pad.

The effects of cold can be bad on motors and batteries as well, in either ground launch systems or on-board electronics.

Minimizing cold-soak (exposure to cold temperatures) is the only REAL solution to these issues.

Later! OL JR :)
 
Pic is post launch. I think I'll change to nylon or mylar chutes. I think they would be easier to fold, no powder needed, heat/cold wont affect, last longer.
My other rocket's chute didnt work either but it dont count. With an A engine, it went about 40-50' up and chute deployed about maybe 15-20 ft before it hit the ground! LOL. Instructions said use A for first flight. I knew I should've used a B! But I got a 24 pk of C's at Amazon, so no more low flights.
 
Personally - I avoid flying when it is cold - just getting too old

But the few times I have I will store the parachute inside my jacket as close to my body as possible to keep the chute warm. The chute will already be folded and talced and kept inside a ziploc bag

I will fully prep the bird (engine installed, ignitor installed, wadding/dog barf in the tube) and the last this I will do is remove the chute, connect it up (I use snap swivels), but the rocket on the pad, connect the leads and launch so the chute is not in the cold too long.

Using nylon chutes does solve this problem and make things easier

Or just wait until it warms up some.... :hot:
 
Yes, many stock plastic chutes are stiff when cold. As Luke said, keep your rockets in a warm car with the chutes unpacked and pack them just before you launch using talc powder.

Of course, using nylon chutes eliminates the problem..... or if the rocket is small use a crepe paper streamer....

Bob
 
We had numerous plastic wad recoveries at the CMASS Winter Follies this past weekend. No snow to cushion the landings, some patches of ice and lots of hard ground.
Streamers and non-plastic chutes ruled the day.

Still and all, about 50 people came out including some TARC and university teams and we likely had about 65 to 75 flights.

Cold does make for some issues but the smell of BP and ACPC burning makes up for them.
 
KennB said:
We had numerous plastic wad recoveries at the CMASS Winter Follies this past weekend. No snow to cushion the landings, some patches of ice and lots of hard ground.
Streamers and non-plastic chutes ruled the day.

Still and all, about 50 people came out including some TARC and university teams and we likely had about 65 to 75 flights.

Cold does make for some issues but the smell of BP and ACPC burning makes up for them.
Click to expand...

I had three of those plastic wad recoveries. Estes plastic ARTF models using the supplied parachute. I packed them at home before I left for the field and kept the models in the car until just before launch. None opened, but there was no damage as they landed on the hard ground.

On the other hand, I had a couple of models with balsa fins come down nice and slow on fully-deployed fabric chutes and get dinged up on landing.
 
Nylon chutes are great, but sometimes nylon chutes are bulky enough to cause their own set of problems in small rockets. Top Flight Recovery has some nice thin mill chutes that pack up pretty small, and that might be the way to go if you opt for nylon.
 
Our club flies year round including the very cold winter months. I've flown in cold weather all my life just because I dislike spending months holed up waiting for better weather.

All the previous post have some good advice.

One approach that apparently isn't as understood is to work your plastic chutes to break them in and soften up the canopy material.
Ever notice how soft and pliable your older chutes are compared to the brand new ones? Repeated folding/unfoldin/rolling and crushing soften up the plastic canopy material. They Still do get a little tougher to open in cold weather but not nearly as bad as the brand new chutes. This process can be done with or without shroud lines attached. The process has worked fine on every Plastic and Mylar chute canopy material I've come in contact with. To produce a really softened canopy it can take some time and a cramped hand or two but once you have it done, plastic wad recovery is no longer a concern.

To begin the softening process: Grab a corner and crunch it up into the palm of your hand. Flatten the ball out to a flat sheet again and grab the next corner repeating the balling up into your palm. Flaten this out and move on to the next corner, repeat until you've gone completely around the chute two or three times. by now your chute should have had the plastic material "Softened" enough that it almost falls open by it's own weight. If not, Crunch another round or two.
Talc Baby powder both side well just before packing. On cold or very hot days it's best to re-pack and repowder our "relaxed" chutes just before prepping for launch.
I rarely have Plastic Wad Chute recovery even on the coldest days.

PS: This procedure works very well with mylar chutes also. As a matter of fact it is standard procedure for most competition mylar chute preperation to ensure full opening immediately apon ejection.

pss: attacted a 4pic procedure how-to used for mylar competition chutes but works exactly the same for everyday plastic sheet chutes.

Crumpling-e_4 pic Page_05-15-04.jpg
 
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Good Advice from Micromeister. Just make sure you are using Talc powder not just any "baby powder" since many of them are made from cornstarch, which causes a whole different set of issues.
 
I put Streamers in all of my Crossfires. The Rocket is tiny and light enough that even on one where the Streamer stayed in a ball there was no Damage. I'de ditch the Streamers entirely for Nose Blow recovery, but I like streamers and the way they look coming down.
 
TopRamen said:
I put Streamers in all of my Crossfires. The Rocket is tiny and light enough that even on one where the Streamer stayed in a ball there was no Damage. I'de ditch the Streamers entirely for Nose Blow recovery, but I like streamers and the way they look coming down.
Click to expand...

It sounds like and the rocket looks like "nose blow" recovery would work . You don't need a chute or a streamer, just pop the nose cone off to destabilize it and let it fall.
 
Thanks everyone! I will try to soften my chutes. I'm already looking for nylon ones. I want to try a streamer for the crossfire. How wide, long should it be?

I learned a kid to always talc powder my chutes. Wife couldn't understand why I wanted her to get talc, not just any 'ol powder. I try to tell her a lot of powders are cornstarch and it has problems. She don't understand it lol.
 
Benzee1 said:
Thanks everyone! I will try to soften my chutes. I'm already looking for nylon ones. I want to try a streamer for the crossfire. How wide, long should it be?

I learned a kid to always talc powder my chutes. Wife couldn't understand why I wanted her to get talc, not just any 'ol powder. I try to tell her a lot of powders are cornstarch and it has problems. She don't understand it lol.
Click to expand...

Give a nice demondstration. Use a aluminum funnel with some hose attached to it. Put a little corn starch in the funnel and have her hold a match above the funnel as you blow through the hose. That will clear things up for her, and any hair on her knuckles.
 

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