estes ascender questions

Shop deals on ebay
Advertise with us
the rocketry show
The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
K

kyndalag08

Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
So I picked up an ascender kit tonight thanks to hobby lobby's 40% coupon. I've been dabbling with lpr since I was a kid, but want to take the plunge into mp and hpr.

I've been studiously Watching and reading everything I can get my hands on for the last few weeks, and have a couple of questions if y'all don't mind. I'm sure they've been answered before, but I can't seem to find them!!

1st question: reloadable motors. This is a 29mm motor tube if I'm not mistaken. If I want to use a cti or aerotech reloadable case with it, I would simply need to leave out the motor block right? And I would still be able to launch on e or f motors by friction fitting them? I'm still a bit unsure on friction fitting a motor but understand the basics. I see the value in reloads, and possibly using this for an h motor certification flight, but also see the virtues in using an e or f for a low at home flight without going two hours away.

2nd question: dual deployment. As I've said I'm thinking ahead to a cert flight, or even higher altitude flights on a smaller range. This rocket seems to be dual deployment capable....I believe I would need to find two wooden disks that fit either end of the body coupler, and build a rail running through them correct? Or would more reinforcement be required in the upper coupler?

Thanks for any help. 4 years as a search, rescue and recovery diver have taught me patience, and to ASK before jumping off in new waters
 
Last edited:
I think the Ascender is perfect for the Estes E16,F15 motors. And it will take that new Estes booster to make it a 2stager for some very high altitude flights. If it has a 24mm adapter it would do well on the Aerotech E20 motors (SU) and possibly the F32t(SU) but at 11oz that rocket will will be gone gone gone on anything bigger . (Imo) It will be great rocket and build and flyable on a wide variety of motors. BP and AP. Should be a lot of fun. The Aerotech 40-120 system provides a good nmbr of reloads in the E and F range. and then when you get something a little heavier a few nice G reloads are available.G53,G64, G76 at 100 -120ns.
 
So I would need to cut a short section of body tube to slide over the outside of the coupler? Or could it be just the coupler?
 
kyndalag08 said:
So I would need to cut a short section of body tube to slide over the outside of the coupler? Or could it be just the coupler?
Click to expand...

I've never built an Ascender or set up dual deploy, but I think the Ascender has a section of red BT that is already cut for a payload bay, so that might be adequate. I think if it is long enough, that piece would go over the forward end of the av bay in front of the white band, and the main chute would go in that end, then the nose cone. The aft end of the av bay would go in the forward end of the rocket, like any payload section, and your drogue would be inside the rocket body. Maybe someone who has done this before can confirm. And does anyone know if the 2" LOC av bay in Rex's link will work as is with the Estes Ascender? Is the coupler the right size for Estes tubes?

I agree with crazyed, this rocket is very light and small for an L1 attempt. It's going to be lots of fun on the E and F motors it was made for. I'd recommend flying it that way for awhile. Maybe if you are comfortable with those flights, try a larger composite F, then maybe a G. You may need the dual deploy somewhere in the G range. Even with dual deploy, if you put an H in a rocket that size, you will probably be glad you have search and rescue skills! You are going to be searching for it, and hopefully you will rescue it!

Have fun with the rocket, but you might want to consider something else for L1.
 
I suspect that the Loc av bay won't fit, some of the common hpr tubes are measured like pipe, the size given is inside diameter. Estes sizes are outside dia. the band of airframe tube gives you a place for your vent holes as well as access to the altimeter's switch. some folks choose to omit the switch band...I would imagine that lining up the holes afterward may be a challenge :). I tend to agree that you'll probably want something larger for your L1 an ascender is going to really scoot on the larger F motors :).
Rex
 
Thank y'all for the help and input! Especially so fast!

Did some thinking, and some research, and decided on a course.

I did leave the motor block out. The friction fit idea seems easy and will let me get a 24 or 29mm motor system that will be very useful going forward.

I built the tub to spec. The only mod I'm making is adding a light weight backup shock chord on the nose cone..... it's the redundancy worry wort in me, I don't like it free floating. I went ahead and built it this way, but may at a later date get another piece of body tube, and build an av bay for it, which would allow me to change it over by untying two n knots and swapping the upper section. I think that will get me flying at the least, and let me get used to working with a much larger rocket. I think I may play with this, learn , and take my time building a 4" or bigger rocket I can use as a lvl 1 or 1&2 cert bird.
 
kyndalag08 said:
Thank y'all for the help and input! Especially so fast!

Did some thinking, and some research, and decided on a course.

I did leave the motor block out. The friction fit idea seems easy and will let me get a 24 or 29mm motor system that will be very useful going forward.

I built the tub to spec. The only mod I'm making is adding a light weight backup shock chord on the nose cone..... it's the redundancy worry wort in me, I don't like it free floating. I went ahead and built it this way, but may at a later date get another piece of body tube, and build an av bay for it, which would allow me to change it over by untying two n knots and swapping the upper section. I think that will get me flying at the least, and let me get used to working with a much larger rocket. I think I may play with this, learn , and take my time building a 4" or bigger rocket I can use as a lvl 1 or 1&2 cert bird.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a great course of action to me!

The E16 and F15 motors should be a lot of fun and get you used to larger motors. You can either friction fit like you described or use tape to make a thrust ring like Rex described.

If you want to try some single-use composite motors that don't cost very much and would go faster and higher than the F15, but not go as high as full F or G motors, check out the EconoJet F's. About $27 for a 2-pack the last time I got them at Hobbylinc. They come with an igniter that needs 12 volts, or you can use Estes Pro Series II Sonic igniters for lower voltage launchers. They come in 4 different propellant types with different kinds of smoke, flame and speed. A great introduction to composites.

Have fun! I think you will like that rocket!
 
Voltage capability on my launcher shouldn't be an issue. I'm look at a relay at the pad that should handle 20-40v. If I'm understanding the relay igniter principal it should work very well for the application I had picked it up for my arduino and a lighting project, but I think a hell cell or a 3s li-po pack at the pad is my best bet, I can run the box on a 1s lipo and make it smaller and reliable
 
Finished it up tonight. Might have some lettering done, and touch up a bit of paint......other than that she's ready to fly!

20150119_014347_zpse1c89d45.jpg
 
View attachment estes_ascender-results-all.xls

I've attached a file generated from thrustcurve.org for the ascender for all 29 mm motors that will fit inside if you leave out the motor block.

You will see that the rocket will exceed 3000' on an H. The Estes rockets are fine mid-power rockets but are a bit lightly constructed for high power motors and this rocket will got a bit too high for an L1 cert flight IMO.

I question if it is worth the money to convert the ascender to a dual deployment rocket instead of purchasing a more stoutly constructed high power rocket kit. While you could add dual deployment to almost any rocket, it is not required for an L1 or L2 rocket so if your goal is to simply to get high power certified, I would recommend considered getting a 3" or 4" LOC or other 3/4 FNC kit that will go to 1200'-2000' on a H and be easy to recover with an apogee deployment. Once you are high power certified, you can play around with dual deployment and build a rocket for your L2 cert.

Just my thoughts.

Bob
 
Samb - the body tube is krylon color master and the plastics are krylon fusion body tube and plastics where sanded with 440 and 600.

Bob I honestly came to much the same conclusion after asking the question. I MAY try a dual deploy attempt with it, simply because I fly on a pretty small field at home, but think I will go for a 4" larger rocket like a frenzy or one of the loc kits that may fit the bill for lvl 1 and possibly 2
 
Last edited:
kyndalag08 said:
Samb - the body tube is krylon color master and the plastics are krylon fusion body tube and plastics where sanded with 440 and 600.
Click to expand...

Well it sure looks like you got good coverage based on that photo. I've been thinking about trying Krylon Color Master as the Super Walmarts around here have a big selection and some interesting colors not found in the Rustoleum Painters Touch line that I've been using exclusively for many years.

kyndalag08 said:
Bob I honestly came to much the same conclusion after asking the question. I MAY try a dual deploy attempt with it, simply because I fly on a pretty small field at home, but think I will go for a 4" larger rocket like a frenzy or one of the loc kits that may fit the bill for lvl 1 and possibly 2
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with a dd setup in a mid-power rocket; we have several club members fly electronics regularly at our Class 1 field. And good call on going bigger for the L1 cert flight. Once achieved with a nice low and slow motor deploy you can switch to minimum diameter, electronic carryin' , mach bustin' hot rods.
 
samb said:
Well it sure looks like you got good coverage based on that photo. I've been thinking about trying Krylon Color Master as the Super Walmarts around here have a big selection and some interesting colors not found in the Rustoleum Painters Touch line that I've been using exclusively for many years.



Nothing wrong with a dd setup in a mid-power rocket; we have several club members fly electronics regularly at our Class 1 field. And good call on going bigger for the L1 cert flight. Once achieved with a nice low and slow motor deploy you can switch to minimum diameter, electronic carryin' , mach bustin' hot rods.
Click to expand...

Thats a big 10-4. I agree
Why not DD in mid-power.? Get the knowledge and have fun.:cool:
 
kyndalag08 said:
So I picked up an ascender kit tonight thanks to hobby lobby's 40% coupon. I've been dabbling with lpr since I was a kid, but want to take the plunge into mp and hpr.

I've been studiously Watching and reading everything I can get my hands on for the last few weeks, and have a couple of questions if y'all don't mind. I'm sure they've been answered before, but I can't seem to find them!!

1st question: reloadable motors. This is a 29mm motor tube if I'm not mistaken. If I want to use a cti or aerotech reloadable case with it, I would simply need to leave out the motor block right? And I would still be able to launch on e or f motors by friction fitting them? I'm still a bit unsure on friction fitting a motor but understand the basics. I see the value in reloads, and possibly using this for an h motor certification flight, but also see the virtues in using an e or f for a low at home flight without going two hours away.

2nd question: dual deployment. As I've said I'm thinking ahead to a cert flight, or even higher altitude flights on a smaller range. This rocket seems to be dual deployment capable....I believe I would need to find two wooden disks that fit either end of the body coupler, and build a rail running through them correct? Or would more reinforcement be required in the upper coupler?

Thanks for any help. 4 years as a search, rescue and recovery diver have taught me patience, and to ASK before jumping off in new waters
Click to expand...

I just got a pack of the Economax F44-8W motors and the Ascender has a predicted altitude of 750' on this motor. The F44 is simply a full E (42ns total)barely into F class. So a full F- like the RMS F50-8T should get you around 1500'. These motors are considerably more powerful thrusting motors than the E16and F15 Estes but the rocket should handle it. I would give the F44 a shot and see what you think. You will need a good set of eyes if plan to go larger than a full F (80ns). A G80-13T would make that a Bullet and cool to see-hopefully not a shred as I dont know how strong the air frame is on the ascender. But dont just jump in and put that G in the rocket till you get some experience in with the higher impulse motors. My gut feeling is a G40 might be okay but the G80 could tear it up. Have fun :cool:
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Ron Soto
dual deploy, patchwork on Zephyr
Replies
9
Views
450
thzero
T
J
Motor Tube Length Question
Replies
8
Views
569
JamesBenMoore
J
tsmith1315
Wildman Cherokee Mini Build
Replies
12
Views
631
kjhambrick
K
SolarYellow
Current alternatives to PerfectFlite microTimer2?
Replies
3
Views
239
SolarYellow
SolarYellow
B
Estes Bullpup questions
Replies
13
Views
533
rcktnut
rcktnut

Latest posts

Back
Top