To return or Not to return? That is the question.

I have read many posts where people are missing my products. I am touched by the support that so many have offered.
I am considering a return to the hobby as a vendor. Many of you know what my products were about. If I choose to do this, I will only offer kits from time to time.
You will have to provide your own kevlar and parachutes, I can not make enough profit to justify investing my money in these items.
I will sell components, fins, retainers, ave bays, etc. I will not discount my work to match another vendor. I have to charge what I do to cover my machine costs and time.

This hobby is full of good people, I truly believe that. Many of you have shown Love for me and my Family and That means a great deal to me.
I tried to Thank you by discounting my work to beyond my means. That was a major mistake on my part.

I will not sell to dealers, There is no way I can not allow the margins needed for them to profit from my work.
Most of my hardware is made from aluminum. I can no longer anodize all of this my self it simply was to much of my time.
I will have to pay for this to be done and it will affect the price. I will choose what color as I deem fit. Retainers will most likely be black.

My Question to you is do you want BaddAzz to Return?

The simple answer is yes . If you can do everything that you did then that will have to be fine . It may take longer for a kit to be sent . Your one person . Your one of the very few vendors that I emailed a question and get a reply back . I don't do very many kits ,but I want a miss Ronda.

Eric,

I (regrettably) didn't buy any of your kits before you closed up shop. So, for selfish purposes, I'd love to have another chance. However, your reasons for closing were good ones and it doesn't seem that you'll be able to make substantial business profit from the return you describe... maybe the right thing to do for now is to continue to focus on your family and things outside of "rocketry as a profession" for a year or two more. Gain some perspective, let your life take you where it will without feeling the responsibility of having rocketry customers.

If after a time you feel better able to return on your own terms in a way that makes business sense and will be supportive of your family, then you can do so to great accolades from the readership here.

Whether you are a vendor, a fellow hobbyist, or just a plain old good human being, you know we will be here to support you.

Marc

Eric, you know that we all want what's best for YOU. If that just happens to mean that we get to benefit from the sorts of rocketry products you do, well then that's best for US. Wouldn't it be great if we could have both? Ultimately that's for you to decide of course. Which is where you are right now, weighing the pros/cons and deciding what's best. Just make SURE it's what's best for you, and if luck is on our side we all will have Baddazz products to choose from again.

Whichever way you go with it all, please know that you are still part of this community, and that we like having you around. If you can't make and offer Baddazz products professionally, still stop by on the forum now and then, come out and fly a rocket or two when you can, etc.

On the more practical side, when it comes to running your business at a loss, or at least not enough of a gain:
. Many years ago, when I was just learning what it means to run or manage a business, I was told something that really rocked my brain by an old pro. He said that it was my responsibility to my customers to make a healthy profit. At the time, my thinking was more along the lines of "shouldn't I give everyone as good a "deal" as I possibly could?" - wouldn't that be "treating them right"? He made me realize that if I did not make enough profit to be able to stick around, to be able to offer high quality, to be able to be comfortable and therefore able to service others at a high standard, and to be there for the long haul, than I wasn't doing my customers any good.

You OWE IT TO US to charge enough such that it allows you to do what you do. If you give us "deals" that YOU cannot afford to do, than this is bad for both of us. Does this mean that you might price yourself above what I can afford? Yes, this is quite possible. But in the long run that serves us both.

Of course this does NOT mean that greed is good, or that you should gouge people, or that you should charge outrageous prices, or that charging such that only the very wealthy can afford your product. But I know that's not at all what you are talking about.

Again, whichever way you go, I wish you the best. And for my own sake, I hope that means I can get my hands on a set of Space Cowboy fins someday.

peace & rockets,
s6

Yes, yes, yes.

Do I have an issue with you making a profit? No.

cwbullet said:

Yes, yes, yes.

Do I have an issue with you making a profit? No.

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I copy Chuck's opinion in full! Come back my friend! I pay all your beers one night at Oktoberfest in Munich if you do so!

I want an hybrid LARGE Space Cowboy and many many custom parts from your machines!!

Denis


Gesendet von meinem iPad mit Rocketry Forum

You should do what makes you happy, Eric. If that happens to be bringing back BaddAzz Rocketry, I'm all for it.

If re-opening the BaddAzz doors isn't going to make you happy or it will take away time from your girls, you need to follow your heart.

Sorry, rocketeers, that's my opinion.

Eric,

You da man! Yes you are missed. There is a lot of demand, but only one Eric, so you have to feel it. You seem like an all or nothing person. I understand that concept. Maybe you could find a medium where you don't try to do too much. Find a sustainable pace that works for you and your girls. If it doesn't feel right, don't do it. Price wise, I always felt that you put a huge amount of work in for a small price. I am on a rocketry budget, but am fully willing to pay for quality. I would bet most people would agree. Good luck with your decisions. Personally I would rather see you doing less and being around a long time and happy, than be a shooting star that burns out. Best of luck. Take your time. Do what you feel is right for you. For the rest of us, you bet that we are glad that you are around.

I'll echo the "do what makes you happy, charge as much as necessary" crowd.

Limited run kits seem to do well when others have done them.

Yes. I can't say I'll be a frequent customer, but I am pretty sure a Defender MkIII would be in my future somewhere. Also, I like not including parachutes and kevlar, I have that stuff, why should either of us pay for it. In the end do what is best for you, your family, and your "real" business. That includes charging a price that reflects what you put into it.

I'll chime in here and echo what others have said - if you build it people will buy it - myself included. However, don't do it if it puts too much stress on you and your family. There is a balance to be had and it doesn't do anyone any good at all if the balance is off.

That said, put me down for a Mizz R if you kit some of those up!

Do you have to ask. Get me my first order of everything to the UK please.

Eric, you know that I will be in if you return; especially if you make another run of the awesome Space Cowboy! I will even offer my services to come over and help out anyway I can. You are definitely one of the Good Guys in this hobby, and I am honored to consider you a friend.

Cheers,
Michael

Only Do it if you have fun doing it and it doesn't get in the way of your precious girls. Maybe ease back into it by just supplying parts or custom work, your machining on the pieces I have (although small) were works or art.

You can't run a business as a favor to your friends or the "rocketry community." Demand doesn't mean it makes sense. If you have time for it in your busy life and with your family commitments, if you enjoy it, and if you can do it in a way that makes some money, then it sounds like a good idea. If any of those things are missing, it probably does not make sense.

My experience has been a brief surge, then a major trail off. Maybe you could just confirm who wants stuff and base your inventory decision on that.

Eric- As a former manufacturing engineer, I know how expensive machine time and tools are. A single bit for a lathe or mill can cost as much as a drill press from 'the other guys' and they won't mail you a coupon for 40% off! Obviously obtaining raw stock and warehousing it costs money. Simple economics dictates you cannot stockpile pre-made parts in anticipation of selling them in the future, but economy of scale also says you have to produce by production runs to amortize machine set up and run times. I say this not to preach to the choir, but for the benefit of customers who may not understand the dynamics of a machine shop. There is a lot of good advice and like everyone else want to see you happy and going ahead with your life. Maybe you could run a poll of what's really hot out there you can produce as you've had really good stuff come out of your fertile imagination and you understand us as a fellow rocketeer. In time, the girls will grow up and away as they should but you'll always be a father to them. It is only you that can decide where to invest your time and energy. Love ya like a brother and I only want for you what you can do for peace of mind, health and happiness. Hang out on TRF and keep us posted. Best wishes and hugs for the girls. Stay warm, my friend.

Eric, ultimately this is a big decision for you. I think you should do it at your pace, make what you want, or make what you have deposits for.

That might be a way to do it. Take deposits on kits that way you know folks are serious, you have some funds to purchase the materials first, and as long as people are ok with a certain wait that should be good. That way you can control your production and schedule some.

You could also do custom stuff that way.

I wanna see you build that damn Gyroc you told me you wanted to do!

Hey, for what it's worth, I threw my musical career and ambitions to the wind shortly after my daughter was born for a number of reasons we don't need to get into. Priorities went to the front burner and wants or personal needs and achievements went to the back. Everyone in my circle never understood why I never picked it back up, and I got to a point where it didn't matter what they thought or wanted. I knew what I needed to do. You seem to have what I lack these days. You're still interested in getting your rocket biz groove back on, where I have no intentions of getting my musical groove back on. Hell, it didn't pay the bills very well anyway. Had no idea I would end up as a single parent with custody, so I guess my decisions weren't in vain.

If you think you can do this, then don't second guess it. Do it. If you have any doubt at all, screw it....for the time being. We'll most likely be here, and all these guys will welcome you with open arms.

NOW....go build a Gyroc.

Eric you rock and so do your rockets. You can charge what ever you want. If people want one off custom they have to PAY!!! Why buy a motorcycle from West coast choppers when you can get one at the Harley dealer for 150k less??? Why because the chopper is baddazz... Custom has custom prices. Everyone laughed at me when I bought the second set of space cowboy fins ever made. In fact they did not even have the name space cowboy yet. But I thought CJ was on to something. Now the fins are legendary. The machine that makes the fins probably cost 200k. Eric i like your outside of the box thinking and the quality of your work. I say go for it you have what most rocket company's don't have. A machine shop and a machinist mind mixed with rocketry imagination.

shrox said:

My experience has been a brief surge, then a major trail off. Maybe you could just confirm who wants stuff and base your inventory decision on that.

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I think that is how this hobby works: You make a product announcement, everyone gets all excited to see something NEW. You get pre-orders to get things rolling, and then you might sell 1 or 2 after the pre-orders are delivered and then whatever else you have in stock just kind of sits there getting dusty, tying up your investment. I am sure that you can speak first hand to this Mr. Shrox and I am sure that this is how it worked for others. If you get pre-order commitments you can judge if you'll have enough interest to fund the investment in building the kit.

I know that some people are not willing to invest in a pre-order based on some bad experiences with other vendors, but that seems to be the way to do it - Announce, get a pre-order or deposit in to guarantee that you'll sell the kit, build what is ordered and then deliver the goods in the timeframe you set up front. The only other way is to do it in "real time" manufacturing but I don't think that someone making kits as a side or hobby business will be able to put that kind of process in place and have it be cost effective.

I have found that people (including me) just say "ah i'll wait to buy that" and then I end up regretting the waiting when you can't get one because the vendor stopped producing. Look how many people missed out on Semroc kits because we all assumed they were not going anywhere (although it seems they will be back).

I promise you that if you make something that people want, at a price point that people will pay, they will buy it.

o1d_dude said:

You should do what makes you happy, Eric. If that happens to be bringing back BaddAzz Rocketry, I'm all for it.

If re-opening the BaddAzz doors isn't going to make you happy or it will take away time from your girls, you need to follow your heart.

Sorry, rocketeers, that's my opinion.

Click to expand...

This is the correct answer. Part of the reason you shut down production was the lack of time for your kids and family. You only get one shat at that, then it is gone. If selling kits fits in well and it will make you happy, then fine, do it. However, if you are just feeling nostalgic, pray long and hard before deciding. Make sure your priorities are in the right place. Once you receive that answer, you will know what to do. Follow the Spirits leading...

o1d_dude said:

You should do what makes you happy, Eric. If that happens to be bringing back BaddAzz Rocketry, I'm all for it.

If re-opening the BaddAzz doors isn't going to make you happy or it will take away time from your girls, you need to follow your heart.

Sorry, rocketeers, that's my opinion.

Click to expand...

Eric,

+1 on the above. Personally, I would love to see you reopen BaddAzz. I love the couple kits I do have, and would definitely order again. Now, I can honestly say that if you reopen today, I don't have the $$$. But I know I will in the future.

My thought is that you might want to do it like you did the minis (limited quantity) or pre-order only. Speaking only for myself, I would willingly pay up front, knowing that there would be a 3-month lag while you got everything made.

Will also echo what others have said - charge what you need to to make a decent profit. You need to have something to show for your efforts. Your customer service was always above and beyond.

If I recall correctly, your daughters are older than mine. This might be a great learning opportunity for them - how do you price something like this, what sort of business model, etc. I know I try to walk my daughters, 6 and 8, through my decisions (especially concerning $) when I can. Would/do they have any interest in rocketry and/or the business side of things?

Good luck with your decision, family first, and follow your heart. Whatever you decide is the right choice.

harsas said:

This is the correct answer. Part of the reason you shut down production was the lack of time for your kids and family. You only get one shat at that, then it is gone. If selling kits fits in well and it will make you happy, then fine, do it. However, if you are just feeling nostalgic, pray long and hard before deciding. Make sure your priorities are in the right place. Once you receive that answer, you will know what to do. Follow the Spirits leading...

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* shot

Eric, I echo what others have written.

Ultimately it's your call, but you may want to bring your girls' thoughts into to mix, just to see what they think.

Before making a final decision, you may want to test the market by putting a "limited run" of whatever, price it at a point that you feel they are worth, then watch what happens.

Regardless of which direction you choose, we hope the best for you and your family.

Greg

ThirstyBarbarian said:

* shot

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Thanks. Funny how one little letter can change everything...
:wink:

Price it at what it is worth to you, see if people buy it. If so, you have a business. If not, you are in the same place as now. I always wondered why you were giving nearly free labor. I know what aluminum and electricity costs, not to mention the overhead of the machinery you use. You can make a lot of friends that way, but none of them will support you when you go to the poor house.

You have talent. Get paid for it.

harsas said:

Thanks. Funny how one little letter can change everything...
:wink:

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I must admit, I fell over laughing at that typo.
Thanks for the opinions.

Eric,

I only bought a couple of your kits and they are top notch. I'd love to see you making stuff again but do charge enough to make it worth your while. I'd love to see some more of your cool stuff....love the mini missiles.

Be Well, Dave

cwbullet said:

Yes, yes, yes.

Do I have an issue with you making a profit? No.

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I can't say it any better than Chuck already has.....